Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

I won! Oh and there's an article in the paper about it!


Nenastar
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 6315 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

Been a lurker on here for a while, but this is my first post.

I'm about to process my claim against Lloyds and wanted to check that I've got the wording right for the claim details section. I've searched the net and come up with this from help from various sites:

 

"The Defendant has imposed several charges between £20 and £70 (totaling £745) each time the Claimant has exceeded her overdraft limit or had a payment returned unpaid. These charges represent a penalty and do not accurately reflect the Defendant's administration costs. Further, they are contrary to the Unfair (Contract) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. para. 8 and sch. 2(1)(e). Further or alternatively, they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 09/11/2001 to 20/09/2006 of £348.40 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.16p. The Claimant claims £120 costs."

 

Does that sound right? I'm also a little unsure asd to whether I've calculated my interest accurately. Anybody feeling in a charitable moond and fancies given me a bit of advice?! I'd be ever so grateful!

 

Thanks in advance,

Nena

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 52
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Here are the particulars of the claim you should add in:

 

Claimant has account (A/C No-sort code) with Defendant from (Date a/c opened)conducted on their standard terms and conditions. Claimant is claiming the return of (£0.00 = amount of charges claimed) taken by Defendant in charges over (X) years. The Defendant's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. They are also invalid under the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.Para.8 and sch.2.1.e.

In the event that the charges are not a penalty they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. Defendant has declined justification of charges despite repeated requests. Claimant claims interest under Sec.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% a year from(Date of 1st charge) to (Date of filing claim) of (£0.00 =The interest in the 8% spreadsheet calculation) and also interest at same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of (£0.00p = Amount of charges claimed x 0.00022).

 

Hope this helps you. Good Luck.

George Loveless - “We raise the watchword, liberty. We will, we will, we will be free!"

 

My advice is only my opinion, I am not a legal expert.

 

IF YOU LIKE THE ADVICE I'M GIVING AND ARE HAPPY WITH IT, CLICK THE SCALES ON THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THIS POST AND TELL ME.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Nena, welcome to the Lloyds forum!

 

Either is fine IMO. If you do use the first one though, I'd add in that they are contrary to the common law. I would suggest adding it in after "are a penalty and do not reflect the defendant admin costs. As such, they are contrary to the common law" If you need to save space you could get rid of the word "Further". Just "alternativly" will do. No need to add the "claimant claims £120 costs" either. Thats automatically implied anyway, no need to state it further.

 

Having said that, remember that the template has been successfully used hundreds of times over, so you may be as well just to use that, or even better, file an N1 at your local court. Whatever text you use though, whenever you file with moneyclaim always send a copy of your schedule to the court to be attached to your particulars. Lloyds are trying to exploit this lately if there is no schedule with the particulars.

 

Also, your daily rate of interest is actually £0.24p. The charges and the interest are added together and the daily rate is calculated from the resulting total. £745 + £348.40 = £1093.40 x 0.00022 = £0.24.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Gary

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You're a star!!!

I think I'll use Orfoster's wording as it seems to read better.

Thank you for clarifying the interest out for me too. Was still worried about that.

 

Thank you both. Will keep you updated!

Nena

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, your daily rate of interest is actually £0.24p. The charges and the interest are added together and the daily rate is calculated from the resulting total. £745 + £348.40 = £1093.40 x 0.00022 = £0.24.

 

 

No, Nena was right first time. The daily rate is worked without the 8% s/s calculation, just on your charges. Otherwise you are charging 8% on 8%

Link to post
Share on other sites

As I understand it, the interest is worked out on the resulting total. If you think about it, the total of your claim is the charges + the 8%. You are then intitled to claim interest at the daily rate on the total amount of your claim. If you look into this I'm sure you will find that its right. Its not on top of it as such, its further to it.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you think about it, the total of your claim is the charges + the 8%. You are then intitled to claim interest at the daily rate on the total amount of your claim.

 

Your claim is for the charges, which is made up of lots of different amounts dating from different dates, which is why you need the spreadsheet to make each separate calculation to bring them all into line at the date of issuing your claim. At that point you can do one calculation on the total of the charges to find the daily rate.

 

Try this. Open your spreadsheet and change the date by 1 day. the resulting difference in the 8% column is your daily rate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to see if I can get definate clarification on this. I don't mind being proved wrong, but I've always worked it out on the resulting total.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a page in the Small Claims Procedure book that sets out how to caculate statutory interest.

 

You take the total debt (just charges and any overdraft interest you are entitled to claim back), eg. £100, mulitply it by 8 and divide by 100. This gives you £8 which would be your annual interest.

 

To get the daily rate you divide the annual rate by 365, eg. £8 / 365 = £0.02

 

So 2p is the daily rate of statutory interest you would put into your claim.

 

Lucid :)

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06

_______

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think MB is right on this one. You work out 8% based on charges + interest incurred on charges. You cant add 8% then work out a daily rate based on the total.

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

 

Mindzai's Account - Partial settlement offer rejected

Joint Account - Partial settlement offer rejected

_________________________

Spreadsheet for compound contractual interest and statutory (s69) interest:

Download v1.9 [Tested with Excel 97-2007 and OpenOffice 2]

PLEASE NOTE: You should fully research contractual interest before you use that functionality of this spreadsheet. If in any doubt please use it to calculate 8% interest under s69 County Courts Act 1984.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough, I'm not going to argue with Mindzai when it comes to interest calculations. In that case then I've always claimed to much. oops! Still, its always been paid without being picked up on, shows how much notice the banks take I s'pose.

 

I am I right in thinking then that the daily rate would be worked out on the resulting total if contractual interest were being claimed?

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Gary,

 

Yes that's right if you're compounding the interest. We calculated a daily interest rate for all of our resulting totals so the effect is the interest is no longer compounding since we submitted our claims, but it won't make a lot of difference and we thought that it could get very complicated to work out otherwise.

 

Lucid :)

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06

_______

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a page in the Small Claims Procedure book that sets out how to caculate statutory interest.

 

You take the total debt (just charges and any overdraft interest you are entitled to claim back), eg. £100, mulitply it by 8 and divide by 100. This gives you £8 which would be your annual interest.

 

To get the daily rate you divide the annual rate by 365, eg. £8 / 365 = £0.02

 

So 2p is the daily rate of statutory interest you would put into your claim.

 

Lucid :)

 

To clarify the "interest you are entitled to claim back" that Lucid mentions is interest you have paid to the bank that you wouldnt have paid had you not been charged - not the s69 8% interest.

 

Fair enough, I'm not going to argue with Mindzai when it comes to interest calculations.

 

btw I'm no expert in this field, I only know about this because I had to research it when I made my spreadsheet. I'd never even heard of compound interest this time 3 months ago! If you think i'm wrong, tell me, cos the chances are you're right! Having said that in this case I am right :razz:

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

 

Mindzai's Account - Partial settlement offer rejected

Joint Account - Partial settlement offer rejected

_________________________

Spreadsheet for compound contractual interest and statutory (s69) interest:

Download v1.9 [Tested with Excel 97-2007 and OpenOffice 2]

PLEASE NOTE: You should fully research contractual interest before you use that functionality of this spreadsheet. If in any doubt please use it to calculate 8% interest under s69 County Courts Act 1984.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever text you use though, whenever you file with moneyclaim always send a copy of your schedule to the court to be attached to your particulars. Lloyds are trying to exploit this lately if there is no schedule with the particulars.

Right, I've submitted my claim, thanks for all your help!

 

One question, how do I go about sending my spreadsheet of costs to the court? I claimed online, but I don't see an address or instructions on how to do this.

 

Thanks in advance!

Nena

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Nena,

 

I think you have to wait until you get your claim through in the post. This will have your claim number and a court address - I think. We submitted N1 forms so I'm going on information I've read elsewhere. But I'm pretty sure you can't send anything until you have your claim number through.

 

Good luck. Lucid :)

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06

_______

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to post
Share on other sites

As Lucid says - best to wait till you get your claim number back. You can then email Northampton CC with a copy of your Schedule of Charges and the claim number, and they can attach it to your file :)

reload vs Lloyds - £2703.11 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload vs Lloyds Round 2 - Prelim sent 27/03/07. £435 owed.

reload vs Capital One - £456.57 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload's mum vs Barclays - £745 owed. £375 partial settlement reached 17/10/06.

Lloyds Bank - The Template Response Letters!

 

Advice & opinions of reload are offered informally, without prejudice and without liability. Please use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I filed my claim on MCOL. Had heard about Lloyds using this defence so waited for my claim details to come through in the post and sent a copy of the schedule to Northampton bulk centre. Included a covering letter with my claim number and a couple of sentences along the lines of 'I respectfully request this schedule be added to the case file for claim xxxxxxxx.'

 

Sure enough when the defence came through there was a copy of the schedule attached by the courts. Also copied SCM lawyers and made sure this was clear in the letter to the court.

 

SCM put in the defence that there was no schedule of charges and it was great fun writing back stating that they and Lloyds had both had scedules before the defence was entered so I couldn't understand what exactly their point was?!

 

Matt

11/07/2006 - First request sent

21/07/2006 - Standard 'sod off' reply from Lloyds TSB

25/07/2006 - Letter before action sent

01/08/2006 - Second standard 'sod off' reply from Lloyds TSB

03/08/2006 - Claim started through moneyclaim for sum of £1756.26

04/08/2006 - Claim issued by moneyclaim

09/08/2006 - Claim served by moneyclaim

06/09/2006 - Defence entered

25/09/2006 - AQ returned (no Lloyds AQ yet)

Link to post
Share on other sites

You should get your claim number as soon as you press 'submit' on Moneyclaim. If you did'nt make a note of it, go back and have a look. Here's the letter I send when claiming on MCOL.

(YOUR ADDRESS)

 

 

 

 

The Court Manager

Money Claim Online

Northampton County Court

21-27 St Katherine’s Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

 

 

(DATE)

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

(YOU) –v- (BANK)

Claim No: ********

 

I have today requested the issue of a County Court claim via the Moneyclaim online service, details as above.

 

Please find enclosed a schedule of the money taken from me by the defendant bank by way of charges, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest in addition to the amount in charges equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £(AMOUNT).

 

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached with the particulars of my claim.

 

 

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

 

 

 

(YOU)

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Gary!

 

I've just realised that I've way over estimated my interest.

I had my first charge on the 9th November 2001, with the total amount of charges to date being £745.

Instead of calculating 09/11/01 - 09/11/05 (being four years @ £59.60 a year interest), then the 213 days x 0.16p between 09/11/05 to the date of the submitted claim, I've done it at 59.60 x five years! Does that make sense?

So instead of claiming £272.48 interest, I've claimed £348.40.... I'm such a wally!

I'm not sure what to do about my schedule now. I worked the interest out using the total amount of charges and not by each since charge, so I didn't use the spreadsheet to start off with.

I have a schedule, but without the interest on top. Would that do to send to the court?

I hope I'm making sense.... I can't figure out what I mean anymore! Sorry....

And thanks again.

 

Nena

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

Just thought I should write a quick message to say that I've filed my claim, had an acknowledgment from Lloyds and they have until 27th October to defend their claim. Haven't had the AQ yet, but will be searching the forum for advice when it comes!

Been reading Reload's thread on his first Lloyds claim, so feel reassured a little.

I'm claiming £1213.40 and hope I'll get it before the Christmas shopping frenzy starts!

Bank's Solicitors are Sechiari Clark and Mitchel, has that been the same for all the claims or do they use more than one solicitors? Anyone had any first hand experience with them?

 

Thanks to all those who helped me out in my first post and good luck to you all!

 

Nena

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Nena your at the same stage as me, SCM have until 26th to defend my claim and from what i can gather they wait until the very last second to file there defence, then they can say they are unable to attend court during a certain period ie october, november etc etc, this is just buying them time before they ahve to pay out, i also hopeful to have mine in the bank by christmas but i'm not betting on it thats for sure,

 

best of luck

christina:-D

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi there, have just registered and am quite excited by it all. I too will be trying to claim my charges with lloyds tsb. Good luck and let me know how you get on. Just a quick question though... did you send your iniatial letter to the head office address or your local branch?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I sent all correspondance to "Lloyds TSB Bank PLC, 25 Gresham Street, London. EC2V 7HN". Its their registered office and got prompt replies from them too.

 

Christina, they acknowledge my claim on the same day as yours, so we really are going to be claiming buddies! lol Lets hope they don't mess us about too much.

 

Thank you both for the well wishes and good luck!!

 

Nena

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all,

Today is Lloyds last day they can enter a defence. Its the 28th day so technically their time is out, but just rang money claim and they recommend holding off until tomorrow to enter a judgement (if the gits don't enter their defence today of course).

Keep yer fingers crossed for me!

The guy on the phone also had a little giggle at my claim number as it has 666 in it... Reckon he's a bit of a devil worshiper... Or at least a D fan!! ;-)

Take care

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...