Bank Parking ANPR PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - wrong reg - Appeal failed - Belverdere Street Car Park, Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, NG18 1JJ

[Laura Cooke]

No proof that vehicle registration was entered into parking meter and the paid for ticket was not kept, however my grandson put the registration in as his dad could not do it, my grandson also helped an elderly lady who was struggling to do it too for extra

Paid for parking for 2 hour entered 12.49 left at 14.19 so plenty of time on the ticket.

Bank Parking have said the fee was not paid.

Appealed to them but they said their decision stands so sent an appeal to IAS today, 20 minutes later got a response and Banks response is below.

However the registration they state in their evidence is incorrect our vehicle is not a Silver Ford ours is a Red Renault. However on the PCN sent the vehicle registration is correct. 

Advice would be appreciated please,  we are offered two choices  to respond  to Bank Parking or to send it straight to Arbitration.

I would add that no one has asked who the driver was, it wasn't the registered keeper.

On the day in question, the driver entered the **********car park and remained on private land otherwise than in accordance with the terms and conditions of entry. The vehicle, ***** was captured entering at 12:49 and exiting the facility at 14:19, through ANPR camera capture stills, for a complete duration of stay of 1 hour and 29 minutes.

One of the terms and conditions is to ensure that a valid pay and display ticket or electronic parking session is purchased from the payment methods employed on site. The payment data on site corroborate motorist purchases with vehicle entries to determine whether a valid payment has been made. If a valid payment has not been made for the vehicle that entered onto site, a PCN is issued.

The ticketing data for the day has been extracted and analysed. The ticketing data has been attached. We are unable to locate a valid payment made for the appellant's vehicle. There were 71 tickets obtained between the appellant's entry and exit. None of the tickets correspond to the appellant's vehicle

[dx100uk]

Who told you to appeal?

 

Wrong reg speculative invoices are shortly to be almost outlawed, they 90% already are and Bank know this.

 

But as 1000's of mugs think a private parking company can fine you...what do you expect them to do..why not try and see if this parker is a mug too, that knows no better.

 

Until/unless they ever get a letter of claim...ignore them

 

[Laura Cooke]

No one told me to appeal sorry didn`t know what you are meant to do, thought if it went as far as Court you would need to demonstrate that you have challenged the PCN

[dx100uk]

Check here 1st next time 

 

It's not as if you don't know about us 

 

I'm out herding sheep so can't post my links.

Go back to where you started this thread..you'll see a sticky entitled have you received a parking ticket 

 

Fill that out please and scan up to one mass pdf all letters both sides to date and you appeal please.

 

Dx

[Laura Cooke]

I genuinely forgot I could contact CAG, I am looking after my elderly parents who are unwell, I am struggling to remember things with stress, then today it dawned on me I could ask for advice from CAG.

 

My son fretting as it is now £100 that needs paying whereas it was £60, he is on benefits and can`t afford the increase. He is worried about debt collectors coming over this

 

I apologise as not clued up on these things I cannot find a sticky post, and unsure how to post anything up to you been looking at links but can only find court ones, my son as only received a PCN it hasn`t gone any further.

 

 

[FTMDave]

If you'd read similar threads you'd have seen that the IAS are a corrupt kangaroo court.  They will reject the appeal.  All an appeal will have done is to out the driver and do the fleecers' work for them.

 

Reading other threads would show that debt collectors can do absolutely nothing as it's not their debt.

 

I'm on holiday and would rather be relaxing for once.

 

Let's try to turn the disaster so far into a victory.

 

1.  Can we please have the person directly concerned dealing with the thread please, not intermediaries..

 

2.  Can he please give us as much information as possible by filling in the sticky    https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/391121-have-you-received-a-parking-ticket/

 

3.  Can he tell us how he paid.

 

4.  As dx says, copies of all the correspondence please.

 

[brassnecked]

If has paid and has proof of payment as in a transaction ID on a statement also their description mis identifying the colour and make of car will do them no favours, do as FTMDave suggests, and ignore them.

[Laura Cooke]

1 Date of the infringement 29-04-2022

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 06-05-2022

3 Date received Not Sure
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] N
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Yes
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Yes
 

7 Who is the parking company? Bank Park Management Ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Belvedere Street (Mansfield)
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

IAS

 

i genuinely forgot I could contact CAG, I am looking after my elderly parents who are unwell, I am struggling to remember things with stress, then today it dawned on me I could ask for advice from CAG.

 

My son fretting as it is now £100 that needs paying whereas it was £60, he is on benefits and can`t afford the increase. He is worried about debt collectors coming over this

 

 

docs1 .pdf

[FTMDave]

Thank you for sending the files.

 

The appeal of course was a waste of time but well done for not outing the driver.

 

On 07/06/2022 at 19:42, FTMDave said:

3.  Can he tell us how he paid.

On 07/06/2022 at 20:55, brassnecked said:

If has paid and has proof of payment as in a transaction ID on a statement

Can you please answer this question?  It could be his all clear.

[brassnecked]

If by phone or app should be a record somewhere that tracks back to dateand amount paid at the bank.

[Laura Cooke]

It was paid by cash I will double check with my grandson

[lookinforinfo]

Good news Laura. The PCN does not comply with the Act which means that Bank cannot transfer the alleged debt to you the keeper  and demand the keeper pays it as would have happened if the PCN was compliant.

The situation now is that they do not know who was driving so they cannot pursue the driver and you cannot be pursued as Bank has messed up by failing to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

 

So carry on with your life as they can do absolutely nothing to reclaim their alleged debt. You don't owe and they do not know who the driver is nor where they live. Completely relax and ignore all the letters from debt collectors-they can do nothing to get you to pay. And tell your son to forget about paying too-he doesn't have to either.

 

There are two fails by Bank on your PCN.

The first one is the period of parking. They have used the time your car entered and left the park from their camera. But that is not the same as the parking period since they have included the time taken to find a parking spot and leaving the car park  as if the car was parked when it obviously could not have been parked as it was being driven.

 

The second reason is that the Act specifies that some of the wording MUST be the same as in the Act-and it doesn't.

Schedule 4 section 9 [2][f] says "

(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

 

If you look at your PCN  the bit in brackets in yours is missing. It may be nit picking but that is the Law. In any event they didn't comply with the Act since they got the parking period wrong.

[Laura Cooke]

Much appreciate this detailed response good to hear I can now let my sons carer know, can Bank still instruct debt collectors to call at his address (The registered keeper)

[brassnecked]

These people don't send door knocker's they send more threatograms escalating the imaginary debt by sums that would get them laughed out of court if they tried to apply them to suing a keeper.

 

If they do send a Letter OF Claim come back here and the team will help you deal with it, but they are on quicksand with any claim

[Laura Cooke]

Thank you for the support will come back to you if we hear anymore

[Laura Cooke]

Dear xxxxxxxx

The Independent Appeals Service (IAS) has received a decision from the Independent Adjudicator regarding your recent appeal for the below PCN.

Parking Charge Number (PCN): xxxxxxx
Vehicle Registration: xxxxxxxx
Date Issued: 29/04/2022

Appeal Outcome: Dismissed

The Adjudicators comments are as follows:
 

The Appellant should understand that the Adjudicator is not in a position to give legal advice to either of the parties but they are entitled to seek their own independent legal advice.

 

The Adjudicator's role is to consider whether or not the parking charge has a basis in law and was properly issued in the circumstances of each individual case.

 

In all Appeals the Adjudicator is bound by the relevant law applicable at the time and is only able to consider legal challenges and not factual mistakes nor extenuating or mitigating circumstances.

 

Throughout this appeal the Operator has had the opportunity consider all points raised and could have conceded the appeal at any stage.

 

The Adjudicator who deals with this Appeal is legally qualified and each case is dealt with according to their understanding of the law as it applies and the legal principles involved.

 

A decision by an Adjudicator is not legally binding on an Appellant who is entitled to seek their own legal advice if they so wish.

The Operator has provided evidence of the signs at the site, which make it clear any driver parking without paying for the duration, with a full accurate registration, will be issued with the parking charge notice.

The Appellant claims that they paid for parking but fails to provide evidence to support the claims. As explained above, at this stage, the onus is on the Appellant to satisfy me the charge is unlawful. In the absence of any evidence I am not satisfied.

The Operator's evidence shows no payment for the Appellant's vehicle, or anything similar. It does show two payments for the same registration in quick succession. I would take a reasonable guess, based on the circumstances described, that the person paying has paid for the registration of the person they assisted again.

If they have paid for the incorrect registration they have my sympathy, but the guidance to the appeal is clear that I may only consider legal issues not extenuating circumstances. The Operator has this discretion, but they are unlikely to exercise it in the Appellant's favour, in the absence of evidence to support the claim.

The Operator has provided photographic evidence of the Appellant's vehicle leaving the land they manage, ninety minutes after it arrived and without a payment for this vehicle. The appeal is dismissed."

As your appeal has been dismissed, the Independent Adjudicator has found, upon the evidence provided, that the parking charge was lawfully incurred.

As this appeal has not been resolved in your favour, the IAS is unable to intervene further in this matter.

 

You should contact the operator within 14 days to make payment of the charge. 

Should you continue to contest the charge then you should consider obtaining independent legal advice.

Yours Sincerely,
The Independent Appeals Service

[FTMDave]

Why on earth did you/son/grandson appeal to the IAS? 

 

Read any other IPC thread and you learn immediately that you're dealing with a kangaroo court.  The IPC is a biased breakaway parking association.  It, its appeals body the IAS plus the firm of solicitors Gladstones most associated with this industry ... are all run by the same people!  No conflict of interest there!  Obviously the appeal was rejected.

On 07/06/2022 at 20:42, FTMDave said:

1.  Can we please have the person directly concerned dealing with the thread please, not intermediaries.

Normally people who can't be bothered to deal with their own cases are extremely annoying to the regulars as going through intermediaries takes twice as long and twice as much effort. However, you mention your son has a carer.  Is there  a real reason why you are dealing with this case instead of the person legally directly involved?

[dx100uk]

[Laura Cooke]

My son has severe learning difficulties he is illiterate, thought I would just post what as been received. I did explain in my previous posts, that I panicked when son got the letter and appealed to IAS has I had genuinely forgot I could turn to CAG. I am looking after my parents, and my son and my autistic nephew after his parents died so I am under a lot of strain, I easily forget things.

 

Sorry to say I am not aware of the protocols of what I should have done. But my son is the registered keeper and I have  not mentioned who the driver was.

[dx100uk]

thats ok you should have ample evidence if you do need to rep him in any court stuff.

just remember the golden rule

 

ALWAYS check with us before you do anything.

 

let's move this fwd.

 

dx

 

[Laura Cooke]

Thank you for the support, I really appreciate it and yes I will not make the same mistake again, I still cannot get over the fact I completely forgot I could turn to CAG, I think I have so much stress I sometimes do not know what I should be doing

[FTMDave]

26 minutes ago, Laura Cooke said:

But my son is the registered keeper and I have  not mentioned who the driver was.

Superb, well done.

 

27 minutes ago, Laura Cooke said:

My son has severe learning difficulties he is illiterate

OK, understood. 

 

Apologies if I was brusque in my previous post.  We get people here who take advantage of the site and are simply bone idle - I realise that is not your son's case.

 

Forget about all this appeals nonsense now.  Ii was never going to work.

 

And don't worry about people banging on his/your door.  Bailiffs are employed to pursue people who defy court judgements.  So the only way you could get a bailiff is if

   - the fleecers sent a Letter of Claim

   - there was a court case

   - your son lost

   - he then defied the court and still refused to pay.

None of this has happened so he can forget about daft threats from paper tigers.

[dx100uk]

28 minutes ago, Laura Cooke said:

I think I have so much stress I sometimes do not know what I should be doing

 

hey we've all been there ....which is why we help on CAG.  to dispel the utter lies and falsehoods the whole 'debt' industry instils in people.

 

dx

[brassnecked]

Above all don't worry, take each step at a time, there will be various threatOgrams from legal departments or gimcrack solicitors like Gladstones, the second worse solicitor's in the business with a propensity to lose money foir their fleecing clients, BW legal, and DCBL which will use its link to Can't Pay as a sort of subliminal coercion.  None have any legal standing as don't the escalating fees they add with each letter.  the Keeper cannot be held to more than the original Invoice even in court.

 

Just keep us updated with the letter trail from them as they arrive.

[Laura Cooke]

Thanks for understanding my position and I well understand you having to be firm, I really appreciate any help hence why I updated CAG yesterday with the email I had received, will of course keep updating you should I hear anything