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    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
    • Here are 7 of our top tips to help you connect with young people who have left school or otherwise disengaged.View the full article
    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
    • In order for us to help you we require the following information:- [if there are more than one defendant listed - tell us] 1 defendant   Which Court have you received the claim from ? County Court Business Centre, Northampton   Name of the Claimant ? LC Asset 2 S.A R.L   Date of issue – . 28/04/23   Particulars of Claim   What is the claim for –    (1) The Claimant ('C') claims the whole of the outstanding balance due and payable under an agreement referenced xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and opened effective from xx/xx/2017. The agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ('CCA'), was signed by the Defendant ('D') and from which credit was extended to D.   (2) D failed to comply with a Default Notice served pursuant to s87 (1) CCA and by xx/xx/2022 a default was recorded.   (3) As at xx/xx/2022 the Defendant owed MBNA LTD the sum of 12,xxx.xx. By an agreement in writing the benefit of the debt has been legally assigned to C effective xx/xx/2022 and made regular upon C serving a Notice of Assignment upon D shortly thereafter.   (4) And C claims- 1. 12,xxx.xx 2. Interest pursuant to Section 69 County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from xx/01/2023 to xx/04/2023 of 2xx.xx and thereafter at a daily rate of 2.52 to date of judgement or sooner payment. Date xx/xx/2023   What is the total value of the claim? 12k   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes, but amount differs slightly   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. DP issued claim   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not that I recall...   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not that I recall...   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Yes   Why did you cease payments? Loss of employment main cause   What was the date of your last payment? Early 2021   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No   -----------------------------------
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Fined £110 for accidentally getting on wrong train which didn't stop at my stop by South Western Railway **RESOLVED **


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I recently travelled from Walton-on-Thames to London. I intended to get off at Vauxhall, and had bought a £5.65 ticket to do so. On an earlier journey to Walton-on-Thames, I had gone from Vauxhall directly and assumed that the same train terminating at Waterloo would get me back to my intended route. 

 

I did not realise that I needed to make a change in order to get back to Vauxhall, until we went past this station and I ended up at Waterloo. A ticket person stopped me there, and said I would be sent a fine for going to the wrong station and was incredibly rude suggesting it was stupid of me to not check where I was going, despite the fact that I was clearly distressed and crying by this point. 

 

I've now been sent a fine made up of £8.90 fare avoided (not sure how this works since the ticket was not that expensive) and also £100 'operational and administrative costs' which seems excessive.

 

The letter says I can pay the fine or email to request a court hearing, and may have the Court's costs added to the fine. Not sure what to do as I don't want to risk paying more extortionate admin costs but I also feel this is incredibly unfair for what's clearly a genuine mistake. 

 

Thoughts?

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Hi.  Welcome to CAG.

 

My first thought is how on earth you could have a problem getting off at London station B instead of London station A, as generally the fare is the same from a station outside of London to any station within London.

 

Indeed a quick search comes up with: Walton-on-Thames > Vauxhall £8.90; Walton-on-Thames > Waterloo £8.90.

 

So where does the £5.65 ticket come from?  Perhaps this is the problem?

 

 

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This was my confusion too but their argument was that it was still illegal to get to the wrong station.
 

I think it was cheaper because I had a railcard and Trainline automatically did the split ticket thing that makes it cheaper!

 

Having checked some more, I was meant to switch at Wimbledon. The anytime day single from Wimbledon to Vauxhall is 95p cheaper than the one to Waterloo 😭

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Well I've just tried to book on Southern Railways site Walton-on-Thames > Vauxhall, and the ticket in the basket is called Walton-on-Thames > London Terminals, so I think you have been incredibly unlucky.

 

Thanks for clearing up the railcard issue.

 

Did Southern Railway send you any letter inviting you to argue your case before they jumped in with both feet and demanded the £110?

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks for checking that out!

 

Nope this was the first I heard from them, and it was a little over 2 months since the incident occurred. Apparently they have to prove you intentionally had the wrong ticket… not sure how they could prove otherwise, but worried about risking it with the whole court thing. 

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9 minutes ago, shouldireallypaythis said:

Apparently they have to prove you intentionally had the wrong ticket

Sadly not true.  Due to being a previous state monopoly the law makes this a "strict liability" offence - your ticket isn't valid, that's it, automatically guilty.

 

That said, all is not lost.

 

We had a case some time back where someone living & working in London had been sent by their employer to a different location which they presumed was within the Oyster card area.  But it wasn't, it was just outside.  So after being stopped they got all these threats of terrible court action and huge payments - although, er, the Oyster penalty fare they had automatically got was more than the correct fare they would have paid, which made it obvious they weren't fiddling.

 

In the end they wrote a polite but firm letter and had to pay 20 quid or something.

 

I'm knackered now but suggest we try this strategy of challenging the £110 tomorrow.  Have Southern given you any deadline to cough up?

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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can you scan up the letter to one mass PDF

read upload carefully please

 

dx

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • fkofilee changed the title to Fined £110 for accidentally getting on wrong train which didn't stop at my stop by South Western Railway

The vast majority of threads on this part of the forum are from fare dodgers who were caught and are trying to avoid a criminal conviction.

 

Your case is very different as there was no fare dodging whatsoever.  As it's the weekend there's plenty of time to get opinions from regulars who have a lot more experience than me here.  Plus as you came here immediately after receiving the letter we have time to challenge the prosecution team.  I would suggest something polite but assertive such as -

 

Dear South West Railway,

 

Ref. XXXXX

 

I was most disappointed to receive your letter of 25 May regarding what happened in London Waterloo station on 22 March with your decision to offer me the choice of paying nearly £110 or of having to appear in a criminal court.

 

I note you have done this without first asking for my side of the story, unlike other similar companies such as Transport for London.

 

On that day I had taken the train from Walton-on-Thames to London Vauxhall, purchasing the correct ticket.  I boarded the train to London Waterloo, intending to get off at Vauxhall.  Unfortunately, although the majority of the Waterloo services stop at Vauxhall, the train I took did not.

 

Now I obviously realise that fare dodging is a serious problem for SWR and presumably ticket inspectors hear all sorts of tall tales from fare dodgers.  However, the ticket inspector who I approached to ask for help said I would be sent a fine for going to the wrong station and was incredibly rude suggesting it was stupid of me to not check where I was going, despite the fact that I was clearly distressed and crying by this point. 

 

I would like you to consider two things.  Firstly, if you search for trains from Walton-on-Thames to Vauxhall on the SWR site, two of the three trains every hour to Waterloo on Sundays stop at Vauxhall, so mine was an easy mistake to make.

 

Secondly, the cost of a ticket from Walton-on-Thames to Vauxhall is exactly the same as the cost of a ticket from Walton-on-Thames to Waterloo, so it is obvious I was not fare dodging.  I had a ticket for the correct fare!  Indeed, if you purchase a ticket from Walton-on-Thames to Vauxhall on the site at a certain point the ticket morphs into Walton-on-Thames > London Terminals showing SWR are not bothered which central London station you alight at.

 

Does a banal mistake with no fare dodging involved which did not deprive SWR of a single penny in lost income really merit payment of nearly £110 or an appearance in criminal court?  The words hammer, nut and crack spring to mind.

 

I would respectfully ask you to reconsider such a drastic decision in my case.

 

Yours, 

Edited by FTMDave
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Caution : before you send that letter I think you need to clarify:


SWR are talking about a £8.90 fare avoided, and you’ve stated a fare of £5.65

 

I think you’ll need to get that clear before you state in your letter “which did not deprive SWR of a single penny in lost income”, else they may reject what you are saying as factually incorrect.

 

Did the member of staff at the gateline offer you a Penalty Fare? (They aren’t obliged to, but might have!) 

Edited by BazzaS
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Ah yes I will make sure to clarify that.

 

Having thought about it more I realised I actually approached the man to ask for help - because I knew I’d made a mistake and that was why I couldn’t get out. Easily could have just tapped my contactless and got away with a lower fee!

 

I wasn’t offered a penalty fare - I asked if I could just buy a ticket for the whole journey and he said that would be illegal too since I’d already done the journey. 

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Bazza was absolutely right to double check.

 

However, Sundays, adult travelling with a 26-30 railcard:

   Walton-on-Thames > Vauxhall, £5.85;

   Walton-on-Thames > Waterloo, £5.85.

 

The same price.

 

That includes the one service an hour where you have to change.

 

Unless any of the regulars object, get your letter off tomorrow.  I've added a little bit in red.

We could do with some help from you.

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Great! Is it worth highlighting that the fare you paid (railcard, Walton-on-Thames -> Vauxhall) is the same as the fare to Waterloo, that you only realised your mistake on the train as it passed through Vauxhall, and it is a short time from there to Waterloo, you didn't see staff on the train, to seek help from,  and then you approached the gateline staff for help.

I hope common sense prevails here with SWR.

 

I got a £10 (yes, it was that long ago!) Penalty Fare on the Underground. I had a Zone 1 ticket, and missed my stop at Euston, on the Northern Line, arriving at Camden Town. I followed the signs but it took me up an escalator to an exit only. I spoke to a member of staff, explaining, (& before I tried to exit and re-enter to go back to the southbound platform). Penalty Fare, for being in Zone 2 with a Zone 1 ticket.

I felt equally hard done by, but grudgingly paid it

a) I didn't know then what I know know, in terms of making my case on appeal

b) I needed a clear eDBS ('police check' / CRB in those days!!) for work, and didn't want to risk even a Byelaw prosecution.

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An update on this - I don't have to pay!! 

 

Such a relief and I really appreciate all of your help here - thank you very very much.

 

I hope one day someone else finds this thread and it helps them too! 

 

Email from SWR below.

.............

Thank you for your email and additional information.

 

South Western Railway has a duty, in line with all prosecution agencies, to constantly review matters and with the knowledge of your circumstances we have taken a view and have decided to close the matter.

 

However, if this were to happen again we may not take the same view.

 

Payment is no longer requested and this case is closed.

 

Many thanks.

 

Kind regards.

Edited by dx100uk
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dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Fined £110 for accidentally getting on wrong train which didn't stop at my stop by South Western Railway **RESOLVED **

:yo:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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