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Self managed DMP - management issues already


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I’m looking for some guidance please. I’ve been reading up but am stuck on what I should do and going round in circles now.

 

Trying to manage my own DMP and making a mess of it I think.

 

My income is £1015 per month

Essential outgoings:
factor fee £93
pet insurance £81 (giant breed so quite costly)
TV licence £13.37
Groceries for 3 adults and giant breed dog £309
Council Tax £111
Internet £36
Electric £59
No water/gas/car
Public transport £30
Gifts £15
Mobiles £6
Debt to family £42
Saving £0
Leftover £220 (for creditors)


Actual Original Total Due to Creditors £600 (pro rata started)


So I’ve started negotiating pro rata payments while still trying to keep credit cards going for future emergencies (they are maxed now but if I can pay them down it releases credit for me to have as a back Up)

 

It’s all getting worse, I’m struggling, I have depression, my wife has depression and is unwell. Interest on 3 cards is over £100 so not really paying anything off.

 

I’ve negotiated pro rata on some and I think I’ve gone in too high because I’m really struggling with it, I forgot that when they ask for income expenses they don’t take into account that the factor bill is 3 monthly and therefore I need £279 by May 31st and not £93 as budgeted so already in trouble for month 2.


Partner debts:

Starling bank overdraft: £400, 2019. Pro rata £14 arrangement to pay, no default.

 

Tesco Credit Card: £100  started 1/12/2019; defaulted 7/10/20 £5 mth

 

Virgin Credit Card: £2700 started 14/5/18; defaulted 30/3/21 £5 mth

 

Marks and Spencer Credit Card: £850 started 18/10/19; defaulted 13/1/21 £5 mth

 

Nationwide Credit Card: £1500 started 30/4/19; defaulted 28/12/20 £5 mth

 

Barclaycard CC: £1400 (PRA group purchased it) started 25/8/18; defaulted 16/7/20 £5 mth. 
 
Aqua Credit Card: £3900 (now with Cabot Financial) started 3/12/18;  defaulted 12/11/20 £5mth
 
Aqua Loan: £1700 (now with Link Financial) started 28/9/19; defaulted 2/2/2021 £5 mth

 

My Debts:

 

Monzo Loan:  £1900 October 2021 – permanent pro rata £39 agreed, not defaulted 
 
Likely Loans: £1500 December 2021 – temp £14 pro rata, not defaulted 
 
Monzo overdraft: varies up to £750  - temp £10 pro rata

 

Monzo Flex: £900 December 2021 – temp £11 pro rata
 
Fluid Credit Card: £1500 July 2021 (on a holiday until August) £0 

 

Capital One Credit Card: £700 £40 mth (up to date)
 
Amazon Credit card: £2450 November 2021 £75 mth (up to date)

 

Next: £56 December 2021,  £5 mth (up to date)

 

My dilemma is I can’t pay the factor bill and have maxed my cards.

 

I wonder about going on a payment holiday with Amazon and Capital One and then negotiate pro rata using a part of the £220 left for creditors in time, so keeping the pro rata proportional.

 

In August my Fluid holiday ends and they want £80.

 

I’m not getting hassled by any creditors and prefer an option that keeps it that way but last night seriously thought should I stop paying all of some of them.

 

Thanks 

Stuckfast

 
 

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It isnt a great thing to have to worry about all these things. I am sure someone on this site will offer some great advice.

 

Priority debts need to be sorted first; Rent/Mortgage, Council Tax, Utility

 

- Dont quote me as I do not know the legal points around this;

but Overdrafts, catalouge, card debts are not priority.

I would sit down and work out exactly what your priority debts and living costs are, deduct from your income.

Look at all your cards, loans overdrafts etc, list them all, starting from the highest interest charging ones, think what and which ones to work out a realistic monthly payment, dont overpay what you cant afford. 

I would consider not using the cards etc, as you will be adding to your debt and problems.

I would contact someone Like Stepchange or Citizens advice, they will offer you some very good advice and ways of contacting your companies you have debt with.

Dont be afraid of your debt companies, write to the fully explaining situation and what you can realistically offer, do not be preasurised into paying more than you can

I personally prefer contact by post or e mail rather than telephone.

Ive no idea what Factor, Monzo is, but may well fall in line with what Ive said.

 

Keep a note in a diary of every call you made or who contacted you, ask for names, keep and copy all letters to and from as this may be helpfull further down the line for record keeping.

 

Do not ignore contact as this just adds more stress for you and the problem wont go away.

 

Make sure you make your affordable monthly payments, every month, even if they say we wont accept it, its to low. 

 

As you have a lot of stress going on, I would certainly contact someone like Stepchange or Citizens advice, 

 

Good luck

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Posted (edited)

Hi Stuckfast and welcome to CAG

 

Great job starting to self-manage your debts and listing them out here, you seem proactive and that's a great trait to have when it comes to debts.

 

You don't mention your partner's income so maybe there is some flexibility there to maintain pro rata payments?

 

Personally, looking at your list vs income I would consider dropping all of them to £1 per month as per the pro rata process and stating you are having further financial difficulties. The reason I would do this is you are unlikely to clear any of them as it stands and there's little difference in £5-£1 from the creditors point of view, whereas due to the amount of accounts, that's alot of ££'s for you when multiplied. This can be saved initially with a view to perhaps making full and final settlements on the none defaulted smaller accounts in the future but at the very least give you some breathing room for now.

 

Then, at some point after the companies all default you, they are likely to sell the debt on, at which point you can challenge the DCA's to prove the accounts are enforceable - they are usually not due to how the Original Creditors (OC's) and Debt Collector Agencies (DCA's) carry out this process.

 

Have a read through the debt forum for similar situations as yourself you'll soon pick up the idea.

 

You are not alone and there's nothing to be ashamed of - you've done the right thing in reaching out here on CAG, we will help you

 

Lastly, I disagree with Yorky and do not think you should seek advice from any company that is funded by the financial institutions, advice here is free and if you're willing to learn you can absolutely do all of this yourself.

 

Don't use the phone - letter's only.

Don't complete any income and expenditure forms

You've already proven you are willing to take control, continue!

 

BT

 

Edited by Badtimes123

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Hi Yorky and BT

 

Thanks for the reassuring advice.

 

I’m in Scotland Yorky, so factor is just the management company but I think it’s one of the priority bills you mentioned but not entirely sure.

 

I take on board though that I should stop using the cards so maybe paying them off to use isn’t the best plan. 

 

Also, I think I’ve offered more than I should have trying to keep the OCs  happy rather than what is affordable. Probably made a few errors of judgment and got a bit confused too.

 

My wife doesn’t have an income.

 

Offering £1 rather than maintaining them sounds a good way forward.

 

Starling and Monzo have put an arrangement in place but I can still use the account, they said they wouldn’t ever take more from the overdraft than the agreed amount. 

 

So I’m a bit confused that I’ve offered pro rata but not getting defaulted and instead getting arrangements to pay and keeping the accounts open. 

 

I thought doing a CCA on a new debt (from 2021) with a DCA would be easy for them to get the agreement, that is interesting if you know any more, this is another reason why I was trying to do it the way I was but I feel like I’m drowning rather than getting anywhere but feels so close at the same time to making it through.

 

Do you mean paying full and final on a credit card for £100 for example, pay it in full or offer a percentage. Just a bit unsure on that, I’ll have more of a good read on the forum. 

 

It’s good to see other perspectives on it, I think I’ve got really stuck and just have stopped going anywhere focussed and need to get back on track.

 

I think the usual moral dilemma is playing a part too especially as some of the original creditors have been quite understanding. Others haven’t as much.

 

Thanks again


 

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Posted (edited)

Scotland - I know there are some differences when compared with England around statute barred, there may be others I'm not aware of so hopefully someone else is keeping and eye and will correct anything that is said.

 

I've plans this evening with the fam, so this may be rushed and I might miss something. Given you have so many accounts in different stages, it will be difficult to dig into each individually but the same will apply for all and we will get there :)

 

Priority debts are essentially anything that keeps a roof over your head. Anything consumer credit (CC, loan, store cards etc) are NOT priority debts.

 

1 hour ago, Stuckfast said:

Do you mean paying full and final on a credit card for £100 for example,

Yes, that's what I meant, but really I just mean you will have choices with some saved in the bank. It makes sense on smaller accounts that you offer F&F to clear them IF they aren't already defaulted as it will just lower the amount of communications you will start getting - BUT defaulted debts will show on your credit record and affect you whether you pay them off or not, 6 years from the default, then they will disappear (could be 5 in Scotland, not sure)

 

You're quite correct that the older the debt, the more likely the paperwork is missing, but some of mine were very new (2020/21 also) and they couldn't provide the documentation..

 

Lets start here:

 

-  lower the pro rata on all to £1 (don't provide any income & expenditure info)

CCA Request to each company that has bought the debt from OC (the last letter from OC will state they've been sold to xxxx)

-  get access to credit file

-  Forget your morals, they have none

 

For those debts already showing in default on your credit file and have been sold, you can stop paying entirely until you receive a complete CCA from them

 

I'll be back later

 

BT

Edited by Badtimes123

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That’s brilliant thanks for all the info, enjoy your evening.

 

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense about the F&F, definitely something worth considering to lower the amount of communications to deal with.

 

It’s good to know that newer debts can also be missing the documents needed, sounds more hopeful.

 

Thank you
 
 

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so two historic debts sold to cabot and link i see in your list.

they get a CCA request. if after 12+2working days they dont cough up with a signed enforceable agreement. stop all payments.

 

priority bills are ONLY those that keep or rather can remove, the roof over your head or cut you off or put in pre payment meters...

 

mortgage/rent

gas

electric

CTAX.

 

water is NOT a priority debt as its classed as consumer credit as they cannot cut you off re your human rights. all they can do is get a county court judgement - a CCJ.

 

just drop everything else to £1PCM, write and tell each one this, if you wish to inc an I&E sheet , thats upto you. also tell them you do not expect your financial situation to improve in the next 6mts but if it does you will write. request they freeze all interest and any penalty charges too as they should by helping you under the rules of the FCA/FOS that they are gov'd by.

 

the only (big) difference in being resident (3mts there) in Scotland on credit taken out whilst resident in scotland, is statute barring. but as you are paying all your consumer credit debt covered by the consumer credit act 1974, it really makes no odds to you.

 

debts in scotland are extinguished , dead gone parrot, after 5yrs.

as apposed to E&W whereby after 6yrs it simply removes the enforcement of any court judgement (a CCJ) so creditors just dont bother going to court. in E&W an SB'd debt is still owned by the original creditor they can still snatch your money if you have any with them to off set the debt.

if an E&W debt is owned by a DCA send them our SB letter. kill them dead.

 

rock and a hard place sadly you be, the only thing you have going for you is time.

 

you mention arrangement to pay markers?...thats very bad an they NEVER go from your credit file (and it shows for a further 6yrs in the debt history).  if i were you on the debts showing AP marker i would STOP PAYMENT until they write with a default notice under section 87 of the CCA and register a defaulted date in the debt summary line. when they do, re engage with payment. this wil guarantee the debt VANISHES from your credit file on the default notices 6th b'day, and takes all the AP markers with it...doesn't mean the debt is not still owed mind.

 

dx

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Have you checked your credit file yet?

From my understanding, 20 defaults is no worse than 10...

 

This is what I would do Stuckfast

 

Starling bank overdraft: £400, 2019. Pro rata £14 arrangement to pay, no default. - Drop to £1 pm, wait for their move

Tesco Credit Card: £100  started 1/12/2019; defaulted 7/10/20 £5 mth - Defaulted, stop paying wait for them to sell

Virgin Credit Card: £2700 started 14/5/18; defaulted 30/3/21 £5 mth - Defaulted, stop paying wait for them to sell

Marks and Spencer Credit Card: £850 started 18/10/19; defaulted 13/1/21 £5 mth - Defaulted, stop paying wait for them to sell

Nationwide Credit Card: £1500 started 30/4/19; defaulted 28/12/20 £5 mth - - Defaulted, stop paying wait for them to sell

Barclaycard CC: £1400 (PRA group purchased it) started 25/8/18; defaulted 16/7/20 £5 mth. - Stop paying. Send PRA a CCA
Aqua Credit Card: £3900 (now with Cabot Financial) started 3/12/18;  defaulted 12/11/20 £5mth - Stop paying. Send Cabot a CCA
Aqua Loan: £1700 (now with Link Financial) started 28/9/19; defaulted 2/2/2021 £5 mth - Stop paying. Send Link a CCA

 

Monzo Loan:  £1900 October 2021 – permanent pro rata £39 agreed, not defaulted - Drop to £1 pm, wait for their move

Likely Loans: £1500 December 2021 – temp £14 pro rata, not defaulted - Drop to £1 pm, wait for their move
Monzo overdraft: varies up to £750  - temp £10 pro rata - Drop to £1 pm, wait for their move

Monzo Flex: £900 December 2021 – temp £11 pro rata - Drop to £1 pm, wait for their move
Fluid Credit Card: £1500 July 2021 (on a holiday until August) £0 - Offer £1 pm, wait for their move

Capital One Credit Card: £700 £40 mth (up to date) - Try to pay off as you are or drop to £1 pm, wait for their move
Amazon Credit card: £2450 November 2021 £75 mth (up to date) - Try to pay off as you are or drop to £1 pm, wait for their move

Next: £56 December 2021,  £5 mth (up to date) - Pay off with first months savings due to reductions in pro rate and the ones stopping being paid.

 

Thanks dx, copied that for my future reference :)

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i would stop payment to all in yellow get defaulted ASAP then deal with them.

 

regardless to whatever, their credit file is going to be screwed for 6yrs one way or another.

the op needs to ensure by being defaulted, in 6yrs their file will be clear regardless to what any do going fwd, so a life can be rebuilt.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Posted (edited)

Yeh that's very true dx, I figured they would sell anyway but stopping will speed this up and given the existing defaults 100% agree best to get the 6yr clock ticking

 

Just pay the Next £56 one in the first month you stop paying, might as well for £56.

 

Stuckfast, get yourself prepared to receive a forest of letters, get a separate folder for each debt, file in chronological order.

Edited by Badtimes123
folder advice

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@dx100ukHi DX and thanks for your help

 

Is it just E&W that don’t be bothered to go to court or Scotland too? Is being in Scotland meaning it will be worse for me re: court action or similar to E&W.

 

When you say “rock and a hard place sadly you be, the only thing you have going for you is time”, I’m not entirely sure I’m grasping the context. Just want to make sure I get it and why so don’t make any mistakes.

 

So if a debt was E&W and with DCA, can I send a SB letter even when I’ve been paying it recently? 

 

@Badtimes123Thanks for all the info and guidance on the correct way to move forward, plus the info on AP markers, I take that on board.

 

Thanks for all your help and for going through each debt like you did, really appreciate that.

 

I’ll get prepared for the forest of letters and will keep it organised and filed separately. 


So it looks like the answer definitely is to default and stop trying to maintain each debt. 


Sounds good in a strange way.

 

Thanks again

 

SF


 

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You're very welcome SF

 

Yep it's a relief for sure! I'm almost 18 months into the 'stopping paying everyone at the same time' idea, so I know what's coming for you and it's nothing to worry about.

 

Your postman might start getting annoyed though :D

 

Just remember, should you ever receive a letter of claim / letter before claim DO NOT ignore it! come back here for help.

 

Over the coming months and while you're witnessing the deforestation arrive via the post, stick around CAG and read read read

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ok lets bring up a phrase, fools rush in ....with reams of info in long posts as an initial response without asking basic questions first and overwhelm the OP with info that might not actually be correct across all their debts...

 

i can see from the q's in your last post that this might apply....

 

regardless to where a debtor lives NOW, if the credit was taken out whilst resident in E&W, E&W SB rules apply, moving to scotland does NOT change the SB rules to the Scottish system whereby a debt is EXTINQUISHED dead gone parrot after 5yrs of no payment.

 

you cannot send an SB letter if you have paid within the relevant SB period. you have ack'd the debt by paying, UNLESS there was already an SB period that existed before you started repaying a debt because someone told you too.

 

the rock and a hard place is the fact whatever you do, credit is fruked for 6yrs, until credit files show no registered defaulted debts.

 

i'm must also pointout if a debt already shows a registered defaulted date on Credit files , you should keep paying what you say/move to £1PCM, don't stop.

 

if a debt does NOT show a defaulted date in its summary, then STOP paying till you get a default notice from the creditor, then once its registered, resume you payment/move to £1PCM.

 

so the question that exists is...were any of YOU or your partners debts open whilst registered in E&W?

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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If any of that is because of me, I'm sorry

I would never intentionally misinform regarding paying not paying - I did state it was what I would do, because it is, what I did..

 

Dx's advice is just as easily doable though SF given everything said upto now about dropping to £1 pcm

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Over the years CAG has probably helped hundreds of thousands of people, only a small number of people come back and let us know what happened or to say thank you

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If you are able, without leaving yourself short, consider donating, all donations go towards Site hosting and maintenance - help us stay live for future people in need.

 

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Thanks DX, I think I follow now, thanks for the advice and clarification.

 

Yes, my partners debts were all taken out while we lived in England. All mine were taken out since living in Scotland, but Capital One and Fluid were within the first 3 months of being a resident in Scotland.

 

SF

 

 

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good so you now know your partners debts need to be treated differently in terms of SB. but ofcourse this doesnt apply as the debts have had continuous payment - so forget SB.

 

your cap1/fluid would have you scottish AD upon application so scottish SB rules apply - but again payments have been made so SB does not come into it.

 

get every debt registered as defaulted even if that means stopping payments ...then move fwd.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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DX 

 

I’m still processing and hear the advice and thanks for taking time to advise the best way forward from here.

 

Do you know if the Scotland debts are more likely to try for court (based on my situation of no improvement for 6 months at least, offering £1 for now and defaulting everything not already defaulted) or pretty much handled no different to E&W.

 

Especially with the SB being different does it make then tougher on the debtor is what I mean.

 

I’ve heard they have a sheriff here. 

 

BT

 

Thanks for the pointers on the road ahead, it’s reassuring to hear you’ve recently been there, I’ll definitely keep reading up and will hang around CAG.

 

Hope your journey is going well for you, you sound confident with the way it’s going. Definitely a relief.

 

Been going round in circles, doing my head in the last weeks with a plan of action I’d made, then realised it was slowly going wrong.

 

Yea, I forgot to say, I’ve seen my credit file, it’s very poor, with missed payments, no defaults.

 

Really appreciate your help.

 

A big thank you to you all.

 

SF


 

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original creditors very very rarely do court .

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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No worries, you've done the right thing reaching out for help, you're on the right road now.

 

I'll leave you in the capable hands of the site team, I'll be lurking though so do definitely keep us informed

CAG Site Team and Forum Helpers are unpaid volunteers

Over the years CAG has probably helped hundreds of thousands of people, only a small number of people come back and let us know what happened or to say thank you

and an even smaller number of people ever think to make a donation.

If you are able, without leaving yourself short, consider donating, all donations go towards Site hosting and maintenance - help us stay live for future people in need.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

 

Essential Reading: Dealing with Customer Service

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