Roosterrs V HSBC ***WON***

[Roosterrs]

I am claiming back 2 lots of charges, approx £2000 and £600 from HSBC.

Saturday is 14 days from 1st letters being delivered to the branch. Now preparing spreadsheets and letters to drop in on saturday morning if no reply before then for the "7 days before it goes to court letter".

Wife is a bit concerned as she works in the financial services industry and is worried we will end up in court. A bit concerned myself if we go to court, but gained some confidence last night after catching the end of the money programme.

Anyway "back to work".

[Guest bong]

roosterrs - are you using the letters from this site? because the LBA gives 14 days notice not 7.

[Roosterrs]

No. I am using the ones from moneysavingexpert.com. I can change these to the ones from this site though. Just checked the template and it does state 7 days.

[Guest bong]

I think the accepted pre-action protocol is for 14.

[Roosterrs]

Thanks for that. I will change it to 14 days.

[Roosterrs]

Hello

 

Just trying to work out the interest using the calculator. When do you put the date that the interest is charged up to? Is it when you send your fist letter, the LBA or the court action? Delivered my first letter on the 2nd December.

I also asked for the £100 they are going to take from my account on the 19th December as they had already told me they were going to take it. I am not asking for any interest on this.

 

Can anyone help?

[Guest bong]

Roosterrs,

 

At LBA stage you just include your spreadsheet detailing the charges, and any overdraft interest on the charges, you are reclaiming.

 

when that expires, you are ready to start the court claim. that's when you add on the 8% county court interest. your spreadsheet calculates it from the date of each charge up to the date you issue the claim, and then on top you claim daily interest at 8% from date of issue until settlement or judgement. to calculate the daily interest figure you take the amount of your claim (not including the 8% interest) and multiply by 0.00022.

[Roosterrs]

How do you work out the overdraft interest?

[Guest bong]

use the advanced excel spreadsheet in the library which calculates it for you.

[Roosterrs]

The wife delivered the 2 LBA's to our branch today after delivering the relim letters on the 2nd December. (Got a receipt for these from the bank).Wife also asked why they hadn't responded to our first letters. With the response she got, she then quoted the FSA regulations(thats the industry shes in) and that they should have responded within 5 days to notify us that they were looking into the claim. With the second response she then mentioned about reporting this to the FSA. When I came home at lunch there was a message on the answering machine from the bank saying that they had sent our letters to head office and were looking into each claim individually.

When preparing a court claim, what should I include in it. All my statements, why I think the charges are unfair(relating back to paperwork bundle on this website, my initial letters. I have printed all my statements off of the internet, will these be OK?

I just want to get everything prepared so I can respond with as little stress as possible.

[HSBCrusher]

Booky has put together a basic bundle here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/33060-basic-court-bundle.html

but it is unlikely you will ever set foot on the court steps.

It is likely you will need to send a scedule of charges to Mr Langdale and friends and to DG when you hear from them, so you will need to print out a few copies of your spreadsheet.

 

Crusher

[Roosterrs]

Hi

 

As I am nearing MCOL/court action stage soon, can I claim for my HSBC current and joint account on the same court action? This means only one court case charge. Also, if it does go to court there will only be one court case rather than two.

I seem to remember reading on here that you could.

 

Cheers

[Roosterrs]

Hi

 

Just checked the joint account and they have changed the charges description on the december statement from "total charges" to

 

NOTIFIED FEES/CHG

TO 27NOV2006

 

Will this make a difference to a claim?

[HSBCrusher]

Nope. The banks are trying to change the name of the fees to try to say they are not penalties. This is nothing more than a (dishonest) attempt to cloak these charges.

Dont worry, we have this covered. They are penalty charges, you can still reclaim them.

[Roosterrs]

Can I claim for my Joint account and current account on the same MCOL action/court action?

[HSBCrusher]

yes, as long as they are both personal accounts

[Roosterrs]

Just received letters back from HSBC in response to our prelim letters. Letters are dated 2nd January and we will have a full response by 29th January 2007 from Mr Colin Langdale. I am going to give them until the 10th January as this is 14 working days since we delivered our LBA's to the bank.

[Guest bong]

thats the way to do it!

[Roosterrs]

Just getting together all the paperwork an preparing for the MCOL on the 10th January. I am going to claim for both accounts on 1 claim. I am just wondering whether I have made a tiny mistake. I sent the first charges schedule with the prelim in a matrix style. Year across the top and months down the side with the amounts and totals at the bottom. I have classed a couple of missed DD's as refused cheques.

With the LBA I sent a simple excel sheet with the account no. at the top and 2 columns, Date and charge. I didn't put a note by the side of all the "Total charges", but did against all the unpaid cheques and direct debits.

What should I do?

[Guest bong]

don't worry about it - if the amounts haven't changed and its just the descriptions you can make sure its all correct on the schedule you use to back up your court claim.

[Roosterrs]

Just starting to fill out the N1 claim form with help from the Bank templates library. Is the N1 claim form in the small claims pack out of date?

There is no where to add the court name unless its the "in the" box at the top right of the first page.

My wife says we should wait until the 29th Jan,(this is when HSBC said we would have a full response), so we can show that we have been fair. If they haven't replied by then, then we should submit a court claim.

Would this go against us in court??

[HSBCrusher]

My wife says we should wait until the 29th Jan,(this is when HSBC said we would have a full response), so we can show that we have been fair. If they haven't replied by then, then we should submit a court claim.

Would this go against us in court??

Nope, stick to your times.

14 days 1st letter

14 days LBA

then court.

Dont forget... you are taking your bank to court, they have done wrong not you!

[Roosterrs]

Just filling in N1 form. Do these particulars of claim sound OK as I am claiming for 2 accounts:

 

1: The claimant has accounts XXXXXXX & XXXXXX with the defendant which were opened in 19XX & 19XX repectively.

2: During the period in which the accounts have been operating the defendant debited numerous charges to the account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the claimant. The claimant understands that the defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the claimant.****I am not asking for the interest on the charges*****

3: A list of the charges applied to each account are attached to these particulars of claim

4: The claimant contends that:

a: The charges debited to the accounts are punitive in tenure, are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the defendant, exceed any alleged actual loss to the defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the claimant, and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the defendant which exercises the contractual term in repect of such charges with a view to profit.

b: The contractual provision that permits the defendant to leby such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the unfair contract terms in consumer contracts regulations(1999), the unfair contract terms act 1977 and the common law

5: accordingly the claimant claims

a: the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of

account XXXXXXX £xxxx

account xxxxxxxxx £xxxx

b; court costs

c: interest pursuant to section 69 county courts act as set out on the attached list of charges or at such a rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

****This is the 8% interest*****

6: Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the supply of goods and services act (1982)

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

 

****My understanding of the above is that the bank cannot gain a financial benefit from anyone going overdrawn, bouncing cheques etc. They can only claim back the costs that they incur for bouncing cheques dd's etc. As this is an automated process and can happen many times per day the cost to the bank is spread across all the defaults and will be small. The cost to the bank to send letters saying you are overdrawn is small, again being due to being an automated process. These charges are unenforcable due to the UCTCCR (1999) and the UCTA 1977 and common law, and the bank has said it will operate under the laws of england.*****

 

So when I have filled in the N1(or MCOL if it will fit) I copy the N1 form 3 times and also my schedule of charges(including dates and descriptions) with interest at 8%, and send it recorded delivery along with the court fee to my local county court.

 

Sorry if this seems a bit over the top but I am just making sure I do everything correctly.(Like the old saying "measure as many times as you like, but only cut once")

[Guest bong]

1: The claimant has accounts XXXXXXX & XXXXXX with the defendant which were opened in 19XX & 19XX respectively.

2: During the period in which the accounts have been operating the defendant debited numerous charges to the account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the claimant. The claimant understands that the defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the claimant.[****I am not asking for the interest on the charges*****]

3: A list of the charges applied to each account are attached to these particulars of claim

4: The claimant contends that:

a: The charges debited to the accounts are punitive in tenure, are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the defendant, exceed any alleged actual loss to the defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the claimant, and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the defendant which exercises the contractual term in repect of such charges with a view to profit.

b: The contractual provision that permits the defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of The Unfair [delete - contract] Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations(1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law

5: accordingly the claimant claims

a: the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of

account XXXXXXX £xxxx

account xxxxxxxxx £xxxx

b; court costs

c: interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act 1984, at the rate of 8% a year from [date] to [date] of £xx.xx, and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of xxp. [delete - as set out on the attached list of charges, or at such a rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

****This is the 8% interest*****]

6: Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act (1982)

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

 

****My understanding of the above is that the bank cannot gain a financial benefit from anyone going overdrawn, bouncing cheques etc. They can only claim back the costs that they incur for bouncing cheques dd's etc. As this is an automated process and can happen many times per day the cost to the bank is spread across all the defaults and will be small. The cost to the bank to send letters saying you are overdrawn is small, again being due to being an automated process. These charges are unenforcable due to the UCTCCR (1999) and the UCTA 1977 and common law, and the bank has said it will operate under the laws of england.*****

 

So when I have filled in the N1(or MCOL if it will fit) I copy the N1 form 3 times and also my schedule of charges(including dates and descriptions) with interest at 8%, and send it recorded delivery along with the court fee to my local county court. yes

 

Sorry if this seems a bit over the top but I am just making sure I do everything correctly.(Like the old saying "measure as many times as you like, but only cut once")

see amendments in red

[Roosterrs]

Thanks for your help with that. With reference to 5c, should the accounts be separate for the interest amounts dating from the first charge date to the serving date(e.g today) then interest charged at £xx for the toal amount of both accounts.