@Hermesparcels - Sold Samsung S21 Mobile Phone with EBay £440 - Item damaged / Empty open box on receipt with Buyer

[Downsway]

Hi,

 

I have come across Consumer Action Group in the past with advice about trading rights and now I am at a stage where i would appreciate your expertise in this specific case. After losing £449.50 through Paypal's decision to award the buyer a refund via eBay.

 

Sold the phone for £440, the buyer has disputed twice he not received the item but instead an opened box that he only realised after delivery. Ebay have awarded me the dispute as you can see the tracking number shows delivered by Herme / EVRi. After that the buyer has gone to the 'payment institution' (PayPal) and claimed the item was 'Not as described' where Paypal have given him a refund without a requirement to send the phone back. EBay are charging me as they claim I am NO LONGER eligible for seller protection as the decision was made by PayPal.

 

Particulars are:

 

• EBay Member since 2005
• I sold a Samsung S21 Mobile Phone with original packaging for £440 on eBay and posted it to the buyer using EVRi
• It was packaged in a sturdy parcel, weighting under 1Kg, described as 'Electronics' with tape wrapped tightly around the edges of the parcel and the shipping label attached - Photos were taken of parcel
• Dispatched it at Herme / EVRi Collection Locker drop-off on Wednesday 16th February 2022 at 1143 hours
• Delivered on Friday 18th February 2022 at 1150 hours
• No Signature taken but photo taken by Herme / EVRi that does appear to show the package is possibly damaged from the reflection on the tape (it is taken around 5 metres away)
• When the buyer received it he provided photos and reported that the parcel was opened and empty
• Buyer opened dispute with eBay claiming 'Item Not Received'
• eBay award case in my favour and I was paid £449.50 - listing fees
• Buyer then went to 'Payment institution' (Paypal) via eBay
• Buyer then changes reason to 'Item not Described'
• PayPal decides case in Buyers favour and awards refund
• eBay tell me to pay the money back
• I remove eBay direct debit (Cannot remove the funding source without replacing it with another one on their website)
• 27/03/22  - eBay state they took the money out of my account but this does not appear to be the case

 

Actions Taken

 

• Spoke with EBay multiple times. They claim they appealed the decision which was dismissed by PayPal. I stated that they had NOT asked me for any further evidence (i.e photos taken of parcel being sealed prior to sending) but they continue to claim they cannot appeal it again
• I have reported this Fraud with Action Fraud due to the buyer offering differing disputes that essentially now means (if he has received the phone) he is not required to send it back.
• Disputed the appeal with PayPal and sent photos of the packing and the original dispute made by the buyer. They are inconsistent, one message handler will invite me to send in documents when i do, they then say the dispute is between and the buyer and eBay. (EBay then refuse to appeal it further)
• Today 31/03, I have begun the process with Herme /Evri. I provided the two photos from the buyer and been given a case number. I await a response.

 

 

After seemingly exhausting the appeal with eBay / PayPal I am going after Herme / EVRi.

 

 

- I will sue Herme / EVRi if required and would appreciate your assistance

- What steps will eBay take when they realise the payment was unsuccessful

 

Thanks

Edited March 31 by Downsway

[BankFodder]

If you are going to make a claim then probably the most effective thing to do is to claim against EVRi for the non-delivery/stolen item – but of course it will require some evidence.
There seems to be no dispute that your parcel was delivered to the correct address and the question is whether the parcel was tampered with and whether in fact it was empty.
Is it possible for you to get any photographs of the package from your purchaser?

Did you purchase the so-called insurance from EVRi?
Have you approached EVRi about this?

[Downsway]

I have emailed the buyer asking for the photos/CCTV.

 

- Did not take out any additional insurance

-Approached Evri today (31/03) over chat and provided photos of the box opened which the buyer originally sent me/eBay. 

[BankFodder]

Okay. This is certainly stuff that we have heard before and I suggest that you begin by looking around for stories of the same kind of thing happening – parcels arriving at their destination empty.
You may find some stuff in the press as well. Try to get yourself a good collection – several instances of this happening by way of evidence.

If this goes to court then you will have to do convince the judge that it is more likely than not that what you are saying is what actually happened. This is not such a heavy burden as a criminal burden which is "beyond reasonable doubt".
In civil cases, the standard of proof is simply – more likely than not – which probably ought to mean that it is 75% likely that what you say did happen.

If you can get a statement from the purchaser as well then this will help a lot.

Begin by making a complaint to EVRi about it. Tell them that you want reimbursement. Don't set any deadlines but if you don't hear anything after about 10 days or so then come back here and let us know.

In the meantime decide whether or not you are prepared to take this to court.

Have a look at the EVRi stories on this sub- forum so that you can understand the route.
I expect EVRi will defend on two issues – that you have insufficient evidence to prove that what you're saying is true and that in any event you didn't ensure the parcel.

The insurance argument is dead in the water – but read up on this sub- forum about why the insurance requirement is unfair and unenforceable.

And as I said, understand enough about it and your possible losses in terms of court fees that you are prepared to go ahead and sue them for your reimbursement.
Don't imagine that they will simply pay you out without court papers having been issued – and if they consider that you don't have sufficient evidence that the parcel was delivered empty, then there is quite a good chance that they would simply go to court.

 

[just_jue]

If you still have the IMEI number I would report it stolen so at least it can't be used.

 

I'm surprised that eBay have washed their hands of this as you should of been covered by the Sellers protection, might be worth having a read on that as well

[Downsway]

Thanks, yes reported it stolen to Immobolise. 

 

EBay confirmed I was under the seller protection but apparently when the dispute is taken by a payment institution then they no longer offer it. Absolute farce by all accounts.

[Notinmyname]

@just_jue  I have been selling in the past on Ebay I was doing a decent income, now it's full of scammers and Sellers are not protected at all.  I gave up 1 year ago when Ebay had the courage to refund a 0 feedback from Nigeria that returned an empty box that was suppose to contain a pair of brand new Gucci shoes. (he said were not Authentic) (I had the receipt from the Gucci store) The funny thing is that not only I had to pay the return label 25 pounds I had to pay over 130pounds of Custom import Tax, Total Loss was over 600 pounds, the scammer LEFT NEGATIVE FEEDBACK as well, which Ebay did not remove. After approx 40 hours of conversation with Ebay CSRs they all washed their hands they said to block the buyer and to report to the Police... What a F*** joke. If one day I would sell again on EBay I will only sell chinese 1 poundshop kind of doodoo. One day on Ebay there will be NO SELLERS ONLY BUYERS lol 

 

[Downsway]

Situation update:

Herme s/Evri

Still awaiting response to the claim form submitted on 02/04 and was responded to by Evri that they are investigating with a 28 day time limit. 

 

Unless anyone has any other advice, at the moment I will await their response. 

 

 

Ebay

EBay have messaged stating the payment they tried was unsuccessful and my payouts are on hold (I haven't used ebay since this). Advice please -Should I pay eBay at this point or let it runs it's course?

 

 

[BankFodder]

You say that you are waiting for a response to a claim form .

Does this mean that you have issued a court claim?

 

[Downsway]

@BankFodder@BankFodder no, I've submitted a (their own) 'Damage Claim Form', which includes eBay ID and photo taken by them at time of delivery. 

 

Thanks

Edited April 19 by Downsway

[BankFodder]

Probably about time to send a letter of claim in that case.

I don't think there's anything you can do about eBay

[Downsway]

@BankFodderThanks, I have produced the LOC attached following research on the forum. Can you advise any edits? Also, any advice on phrasing the companies negligence under CRA? I.e should I instead state fail to deliver, deliver damaged/missing goods etc? 

 

 

LOC CA.pdfLOC CA.pdfLOC CA.pdfLOC CA.pdf

[BankFodder]

The letter is fine. Brief and to the point.

I suggest that you send it as is

[Downsway]

Thanks @BankFodder. I have seen varying info on whether to post AND email or just post?  Should I also include my address AND email address?

Edited April 21 by Downsway

[BankFodder]

Yes you need to include your contact details so they can get back to you – although don't hold your breath that it will be anything interesting.

In terms of email or post – I have no idea. Just get it to them

[Downsway]

Done, I will come back once I have a response. 

[Downsway]

Received a response from Evri stating that due to not reporting the matter to them with 28 days they can no longer deal with a compensation claim. 

 

I will now move onto the next stage of legal proceedings. 

[BankFodder]

Send them a letter of claim and prepare to take action in 14 days.

 

Post a draft of your letter of claim here and also your eventual particulars claim

 

[Downsway]

@BankFodderHi, this was in response to the LOC sent 21/04. (it is posted above) 

 

I will now commence legal proceedings unless advise otherwise? 

Edited May 10 by Downsway

[BankFodder]

I don't see a copy of their response which you say you have posted – but it's all predictable anyway.

Yes, issue your claim that please post a draft of your particulars here first

[Downsway]

@BankFodder here is EVRIs response:

 

Thank you for getting in touch regarding parcel xxxxx. I’m sorry to hear that you encountered an issue with this delivery, I can appreciate these situations can be frustrating for both yourself and your recipient.

Unfortunately, we are unable to proceed with your claim as Evri must be made aware of the issue relating to loss, damage or late delivery within 28 days of the parcel being received into our network, as stated in our Terms and Conditions, specifically 6.1:
 
‘6.1 We need you to notify us in writing of any claim for Loss or Damage or Late Delivery within 28 days of the date of the relevant Order. The sooner you make your claim, the easier it is for us to investigate.’
 
You are able to contact us either by calling our Customer Services Team or submitting your query to our virtual assistant Holly, available 24 hours a day.
 
Unfortunately, the request for a claim form was made outside of this time frame and so your claim has been rejected. I’m sorry for any inconvenience caused by this, however, we will be unable to issue a compensation payment on this occasion.

If you have any queries regarding another parcel in the future, please contact your Evri Customer Service Team and we’ll be happy to help.
 
Kind regards,

 

 

Muns 2658

[Downsway]

@BankFodder

Particulars of Claim attached for your feedback. Thank you once again. Much appreciated.

Particulars of Claim cons.pdf

[Downsway]

@BankFodder I have amended slightly..

 

 

Edited May 10 by Downsway

[BankFodder]

You have to post it again because that last one doesn't work.

Next time you upload something please will you check that it works correctly

[Downsway]

@BankFodder I have amended slightly..

Particulars of Claim cons1.pdf