Me v GE Money (Formally I Group)** Settled **

[:Boy:]

Well, I have done the Pre-Lim & The LBA for my Early Redemption penalty that I had on our last mortgage with I Group, before they became GE Money.

 

I have requested £1353.12 in an ERC.

 

I have filed at County Court, and yesterday, I recieved a letter from Eversheds, who are representing GE Money, including their defence

 

I am confused with there defence, its full of jargon (which I expected) but they state that the 'Early settlement charge' was not a penalty, but for us to redeem the mortgage, we had to pay this?

 

If it is of any help I can post their whole defence.

 

What is concerning me more is that they have filed a Counterclaim. Is this normal from GE Money?

 

Their Counterclaim is:

 

1. The Defendant repeats its Defence Herein.

2. If, Contrary to the Defendant's primary case set out in the Defence, the Borrowers were, as the Borrowers have averred by necessary implication by their claim that the Early repayment charge is a penalty, in breach of contract by their Early settlement of the Account, and if, which is denied, the sums claimed by the Borrowers were in fact not payable for any reason alleged by the Borrowers and the Borrowers are entitled to repayment of the same:

2.1 the Borrowers were in breach of contract by their early repayment of the account and the Borrowers have admitted the same;

2.3 the Defendant has thereby suffered loss and damage in respect of such breach, namely the loss of interest payments to be made by the Borrowers for the remaining period of the loan agreement following the date of her early settlement therof (the Defendant will deduct from the same the cost to it of borrowing the capital sum). Particulars of loss and damage will be provided

 

And the Defendant counterclaims

1. damages for breach of contract

2. interest theron pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1969.

 

 

I do not fully understand the Counterclaim, but what I can gather is that if I am awarded the money, they will sue me for the same amount of money?

 

I will now have to defence their Counterclaim, so any help out there would be of great appreciation, and any advice is greatly needed.

 

Thanks again.

[sammyjammy]

As far as I know you are the first and there are plenty of us here, maybe its something they've just thought of and there is one winging its way to me as we speak, up to now everyone seems ot have received the same defence, I can't really help but I'm sure Zoot or Alan or someone equally knowledgeable will be here soon to help you out.

 

Fingers crossed for you. If it spurrs you on check out Dogwash's thread, she hasn't got there yet but they did talk settlement monies, here court date is set for February.

 

Sam

[:Boy:]

Thanks for that, it is the first time in all of my cases that there has been a counterclaim, so it surprised me a little.

 

I have been following your thread and Dogwashed thread with anticipation, too see what they will offer/their next step.

[ellielou]

Hi

 

Have a look at Morgys thread - Kensington entered a counterclaim to her's too. You should be able to lift something that Zoot did on here........

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgage-companies/27030-harsh-letter-recieved-form.html

 

Good luck

[:Boy:]

Hello,

 

I have had a look at that thread, amazing what Zoot come up with. I have just printed off the defence to their counterclaim, and going to have a look to see if this helps me.

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Thanks

[:Boy:]

Well, Im back with an update.

 

I have recieved a letter from GE Money with a revised Counterclaim. The only diffrence from the last one is that they have added that their costs won't be more than £5000.

 

I have sent my allocation questionaire and defence to their counterclaim today, so fingers crossed, lets hope it is alright!

[:Boy:]

Well in the post today I have recieved a letter from Eversheds, and a copy of their AQ.

 

This is what they have put:

 

Amount in dispute: £A11

 

Witnesses: Financial Officer of the Defendant company, to be confirmed.

Witness to which facts: Contract and calculation of Early Repayment Charge

 

Do you wish to use expert evidence at the trial of final hearing: Yes

Experts name: To be confirmed

Field of expertise: Accountant/economist

 

Do you want any expert (s) to give evidence orally at the trial/final hearing: No

 

Which track, most suitable: Multi track

Brief reasons for: Detailed and lengthy submissions will be required upon complex points of law; 2: Complex expert evidence is likely to be required; 3: The hearing is likely to exceed 1 day.

 

How long do you estimate the traial/hearing will take: 2 days, 2 hours and 30 minutes.

 

Estimate costs incurred to date: £800

Estimate overall costs: £to follow.

 

Space below information for Judge:

 

The Defendant requests that the claim be allocated to the multi track, not withstanding the financial value of the claim.

The defendant requests that a case management conference be listed for directions to be decided.

 

 

So, I kind of make sense of it. It is quite intimidating really, I take it they do this to put the sh*t up you!. Any advice or help is appreciated!

[zootscoot]

Hi D5,

 

I notice above you state that they have put in a counter claim for damages for breach of contract. That is different from the counter claim Morgy received regarding costs.

 

They are quite entitled to claim any actual costs they incurred as a result of your breach of contract upto the limit specified in the ERC. Although you should put them to strict proof of the damages so that they have to plead and prove each and every cost.

 

Do you know if they formally entered the counterclaim through the court and paid the appropriate fee?

 

With regards to their request for multi -track its likely that there will be an allocation hearing. This can be by telephone or by attending court. Have a look through the mortgage FAQ in the stickies at the top of this forum for arguments to use.

 

Hope this helps

 

Zoot

[:Boy:]

Thanks for that.

 

How can I find out if they paid for the appropriate fee through the court for the Counterclaim?

 

I am getting quite nervous about this one now, but I suppose I will have to take the plunge, they are not the nicest bunch to deal with, but it is obviously my choice to go ahead and get my money!

 

I will have a look at the mortgage stickies.

 

Thanks once again, and any more updates, I will post here.

 

Best regards

[FairlyNiceChap]

Cant add much to above - but am watching good luck

 

FNC

 

PS Thread Jigack sorry but vs Gemoney - Anyone had thoughts on Exemplary Damages - I might make a claim for £1M or so with thruppence or courts discretion in the alternative to show I am not profiteering (watch GE Money choose to defend that one)

 

http://www.lawcom.gov.uk/docs/lc247.pdf

 

Categories test for exemplary damages - wrongful conduct which has been calculated by the defendant to make a profit for himself which may well exceed the compensation payable to the plaintiff

 

The second difference is that exemplary damages may be awarded even though they exceed the amount of the gain made by the tortfeasor. The effective pursuit of punishment may require awards of exemplary damages to exceed the restitutionary measure: they are concerned with punishment and not simply with stripping away the fruits of the defendant’s wrongdoing. As Lord Diplock said in

Broome v Cassell,

To restrict the damages recoverable to the actual gain made by the

defendant if it exceeded the loss caused to the plaintiff, would leave a

defendant contemplating an unlawful act with the certainty that he had nothing to lose to balance against the chance that the plaintiff might never sue him or, if he did, might fail in the hazards of litigation.

 

It is only if there is a prospect that the damages may exceed the defendant’s gain that the social purpose of this category is achieved - to teach a wrong-doer that tort does not pay

[zootscoot]

So what tort would you be raising?

 

Would you be happy to pay the maximum court fee?

 

Would you be happy to be multi tracked and expose yourself to unlimited liability in costs?

 

Yes you are hijacking. Stick to your own thread for raising your own issues!

[FairlyNiceChap]

Yes you are hijacking. Stick to your own thread for raising your own issues!

 

Apologies Zoot/ D5Tweddle - Will keep to myself in future- please feel free to delete my rude interjection

I will follow up in my GE Money-ERC thread (linked above)

[:Boy:]

No probs FNC.

 

Well, letter in the post today from the Court.

 

I have a Case Management Conference on the 24th January 2007 at 10am. I am now getting nervous.

 

Any advice please on what I need to do (I know it sounds like a daft question, but I have never got this far with any of my claims!)

 

Thanks for your help

[FairlyNiceChap]

D5Tweddle

 

Not in a position to help you because as they say "I know nothing", but am sure some advice will be forthcoming (you have two weeks) and Zoot seems to be following you nicely - GL

[:Boy:]

Thanks for your support FNC

 

DT

[:Boy:]

Just arranged to go to my County Court tomorrow for a look around (familirisation) and (hopefully) sit in on a case, if the Judge allows it.

 

To be honest I am s***ing myself on the 2 pending cases, as I believe they will go all the way. Oh well, at least its something interesting for the start of 2007!

[Guest peed orf]

The force [CAG] is with you!

[dogwash]

Don't panic D5Tweddle - I went to Court with Abbey (bank charges) and the District Judge was really nice. It's held in chambers generally anyway - not like open court. Remember they know you are a lay person and will help you all they can. Anyway bet GE settle before then - believe me they want to go to court a lot less than you! This is one can of worms they do not want opening publicly in court. Really interested in what hapens to you next as I am due in court against GE on 19 Feb. Good Luck and please don't panic - that's just what GE are banking on in the hope you'll pull out.

[dolly]

Whereabouts are you? Maybe someone can come with you?

[:Boy:]

Thanks everyone, the support is appreciated.

 

I am looking forward to going to the Court today, it will be interesting, especially finding out what actually happens at a Case Management Conference.

 

I am in North Shropshire (near Shrewsbury).

 

I am nervous, I just don't want to cock it up here, after all the time I have spent on this. I have just had a Court date from another claim I have with Abbey. I need to do a Court bundle for this! I am going to have a fun 2 weeks!

[zootscoot]

Hi D5T,

 

Have you had any directions from the court?

 

Don't forget to follow Jamorgan's thread as she has a CMC on the 18th of Jan.

 

All the best

 

Zoot

[:Boy:]

Hello Zoot,

 

What do you mean by 'Directions'? (sorry for not knowing).

 

I will follow Jamorgans thread with interest!.

 

I have visited the Court this morning for familirisation (was not allowed to sit in on a case though), very interesting and daunting at the same time. The staff put me at ease though:) .

[zootscoot]

By directions I mean has the court asked you to send anything to them or the defendant?

 

I'm sure you'll be fine in court! CMCs are generally conducted in private rather than an open court and its simply a matter of working out what issues are in dispute and what are agreed to.

 

Best of luck

 

Zoot

[:Boy:]

Hello,

 

No nothing has been asked for or sent to (i.e GE money).

 

I would love to say that I am looking forward to the CMC, but, trust me I'm not.

 

Thanks for your help, and swift response, and I will keep you updated.

[:Boy:]

In need of a bit of advice here please.

 

Do I have to go to the Case Management Conference (it is on the 24th January 2007)? Could my case be struck out in the CMC?, I am just getting nervous about it.

 

I believe that this is being stringed out enough already, and I think they might ask for more time/move location etc etc, or am I panicking for nothing?

 

Look forward to any replies.