Car hub Birmingham/central cars - used car defective - CRA 2015 breach

[Standing up for me]

Hi, 

 

I noticed another post on this website from a poster who has had a similar issue with the same car sales garage that I am having issues with.

 

I bought a 2011 used car from them last month for £6000. When they delivered the car I quickly noticed something was not right with the clutch. I have noticed within the first week that I wanted to reject the car as it was defective, the garage asked me to deliver the car back to them for inspection.

 

a week passed by I hadn’t heard anything back, so I chased them, they told me they were having the independent expert carry out an inspection of the car that day and the report would be with them within 24 hours. Then I was told that actually the inspection had already taken place the day I dropped it back to them.

 

The following day they produced an email with a copy and paste from an alleged report. They refused to provide the report, the name of who conducted the report or any details of the report. They claimed that the report found that the car was not defective and as such my rejection was invalid. They told me to collect the car by the following day as I had put them on notice to preserve the car. 
 

I commissioned my own independent expert report on the car, which was fully CPR35 compliant. I disclosed the report to the garage, they are still refusing to refund or collect their car which has been deemed as unroadworthy by the expert. They refuse to disclose their report still and are refusing to acknowledge my report.

 

I have already made a start on my pre action protocol letter of claim to escalate things. I keep getting hostile and very confusing emailed from the guy at the garage, he seems to think he understands contract law but he clearly does not otherwise he would understand that my rejection of the vehicle has in fact terminated the contract between us. 
 

anyone else had issues with this garage ?

They trade as car central too ..

they’re based in Birmingham ..

I’ve noticed that their google reviews all seem to show very similar experiences to what I am experiencing with them now. 
 

thanks 

 

Garage: car hub Birmingham ltd t/a car central located in small Heath Birmingham. 

[dx100uk]

did you formerly reject the car in writing within 30days?

 

dx

 

[Standing up for me]

Hi, yeah I formally rejected the car in writing within 7 days 

[dx100uk]

good you are in the driving seat then.

they cant refuse you

don't know why you are faffing around with allowing them nor you to do any inspections.

totally pointless ...unless you do want the bag of spanners and its reliability going fwd even if you allow tis issue to be fixed.

 

how did you pay....please dont tell us by bank transfer...

[dx100uk]

Programmable Search Engine

CSE.GOOGLE.COM

 

Programmable Search Engine

CSE.GOOGLE.COM

 

[Standing up for me]

It’s been a nightmare!!! Yes unfortunately (and lesson learned) bank transfer !!! The card machine was “out of order” can you believe  

 

 

I gave notice of the rejection 6 days after I took delivery. At this point I had only had a mechanic look at it, not an expert. The garage told me to deliver it back to them, they then said this was for the purpose of an inspection. They claim the inspection found the car to be fine and are refusing to disclose the actual report.

 

they made me collect the car again a week later I did so but only for the purpose of my own independent inspection. My inspection confirmed the issued and defects with the car and dispute me disclosing this to them they’re nit picking at the wording in the report.. saying it isn’t correct etc etc and that they dispute it.

 

im getting harassing emails and even a phone call from the garage . 
 

I’ve made my position very clear and informed them that their car is untaxed, uninsured and is parked on a service road at the rear of my property and is not my responsibility however they’re acting like petulant children and refusing to acknowledge that the car was rejected!!!!! 

Edited March 15 by Standing up for me

[BankFodder]

I'm presuming that these are the people

Used cars Birmingham, Used car Dealer in West Midlands | Car Central

WWW.CARCENTRALBRUM.CO.UK

---

Used cars for sale in Birmingham & West Midlands: Car Central: Competitive finance deals, part exchanges welcome, call now!

 

Of course the machine was out of order – it probably never works and it was just a way of getting you to pay by cash or to pay by bank transfer.

How far they away from where you live?

Did the car come with an MOT – and was it a new MOT? What was the date of it?

I see that you say that they delivered the car. This means that you bought it without seeing it – correct?
How was it delivered? What time of the day was it delivered?

There's going to be no problem here about getting a judgement against them if you have to sue them. The problem will be enforcing the judgement and these kinds of dealers are masters at avoiding enforcement.

Please tell us about the MOT. The date of the MOT, the day of the delivery of the vehicle, the name of the garage which provided the MOT – these questions are assuming that the MOT was extremely recent

[Standing up for me]

Hi,

 

yep that’s them!!! They’re so so back street it’s shocking!!! 

I don’t live far at all, a few miles maybe 8 miles. 
 

I did view the car, I was allowed to test drive it but he was very specific in that I could only go a short distance up the road of the estate due to “the (insert racial slur) driving like di^cheads”. His words. 
 

upon driving the car at this time I noticed it was struggling a little to pull away in first gear, I just assumed it was just me not being used to that make of car .. 

 

i then asked him about the warranty he said it covers engine and gearbox .. I specifically asked about the clutch he told me that all of their cars are clutch tested so assured me the clutch was in proper working order. 
 

They then needed to have it in for an MOT so we couldn’t take it away that day, he insisted on delivering the car to me which I felt was weird as I was happy to collect. 
 

upon delivery I was told to sign paperwork abs make the remaining payment of £5900 via bank transfer, I was told I was signing to say the car had been delivered. 
 

I drove it to the petrol station and quickly realised it had a number of knocking noises and the clutch was worse than I first realised .. I was needing to Rev the car at 4000 revs to pull away on a flat surface .. this is a 2.0 litre car !!!!!

 

rejected it etc etc the rest you know from the original post. 
 

they delivered it around midday. 
 

They had an MOT done on the car (although I question it’s legitimacy due to the failure of the handbrake) it is dated 9 February. 
 

my issue is the car is untaxed and un insured .. I rejected the car on 14 February therefore I do not recognise it as my property. I have provided a fully compliant expert report to prove that my rejection is valid. they’re refusing to collect the car and I don’t have off road parking for it. They’re arguing that the car is mine and the responsibility is mine to tax and insure it. I disagree. 
 

the car was deemed unsafe to drive by my expert so I don’t want to drive it back to them. No idea what to do on this point… I could pay for a transporter to have it delivered but I fear they would reject delivery of it.

 

[BankFodder]

One of the problems about getting it back to them is that they have your money. You might leave the car there and then they will have your money and your car.

So it has a brand-new MOT. But you have some expert who has said that it is unroadworthy. Can you tell us more about this expert please and have you got a written assessment.

I understand that you have already alerted the dealer and rejected the car. They are ignoring you. If you want to take a legal action then you had better start now. You say that you have embarked on a pre-action protocol.
Please can you tell us exactly what you have done.

One idea which I've been suggesting in recent weeks to people in exactly your position is to start targeting the MOT station if there is good evidence to suggest that the MOT station should not have granted a certificate.
Which is the MOT station?

Although it is difficult because you don't have insurance, I think that it would be in your interest to get an MOT at your own independent station. I think that you should do this is matter of urgency.

If as we suspect, it will fail on the new MOT and coupled with your independent expert report, we could then help you target not only the dealer but also the MOT station.
Although the dealer will be used to this kind of thing and it would be difficult to enforce the judgement, I'm quite certain that the MOT station will never have been challenged in the courts and it would be enormously serious for them to have a judgement which basically confirmed that they were complicit in the misrepresentation of the quality of the vehicle.
I can imagine that if we targeted them, they would put pressure on the dealer and the dealer would be worried about losing the cooperation of a compliant MOT station and might then decide to pay you.

This is all speculation – but I think it's worth trying.
As I said, I have suggested this approach on two other occasions in the past few weeks – although for some reason rather the people that I have suggested it to have stopped posting on their threats so I don't know what's happening.

I think you are entitled to drive it for an MOT by appointment without having taxed the vehicle that you would certainly have to get insurance at least for the one day – or else organise a delivery. Maybe the MOT station would help you.

You'd have to be very careful to choose an MOT station that was not near the dealer or associated with them in any way. It would be wise not to tell the MOT station what you are doing or to reveal the existence of your previous MOT.

Please could you put up the independent inspection report that you have received here in PDF format

 

[BankFodder]

Incidentally I'd better point out now that your principled rejection of your ownership of the vehicle probably doesn't work.

I expect that if push came to shove, the vehicle is in your care and if you're keeping on the road then it would be you in the frame for keeping an uninsured vehicle.
I understand your position completely – but I wouldn't like to get into the extremely complicated argument that you would have with the police and also the DVLA – not to mention the courts if some action is taken in respect of the uninsured status.

 

[Standing up for me]

Hi, 

 

I do have a very local MOT tester which is 0.7 miles from where the car is parked. Great idea I will get that booked in! Thanks 

 

the report was carried out by ACE who I found on the motor ombudsman website. It is a fully CPR35 compliant report so I’ll be using it as my evidence in court. I will get on the laptop shortly and add the report here. 
 

I have just made a start yesterday on my letter of claim. I intend to send this to them ASAP. Once they breach that, which I assume they will… I’ll then issue proceedings. I don’t even know how to sorn a car that is not in my name .. I’ll have to look into that. 
 

thanks 

[BankFodder]

If you are keeping the car on the road then you won't be able to sorn it.

If you are going to get it MOT it then you should not try the uninsured. Maybe you can get them to pick it up using their trade insurance.

I wouldn't send any letter of claim yet until we have the whole story about the MOT and its roadworthiness.

Do you know that selling an unroadworthy vehicle – brakes et cetera is a criminal offence under the road traffic accident 1988?

If it turns out that the MOT that it came with was granted despite the fact that the vehicle is in unroadworthy condition, then the MOT station is seriously complicit and we should not waste this opportunity to put pressure on them and also the dealer.

[Standing up for me]

Other than the defective handbrake I don’t think a second MOT would be of benefit.. just looked at the current MOT it just has “parking brake has some travel” as an advisory.. so not sure where I stand on that.

 

the engineer who deemed it too unsafe to road test made this judgment on the basis of the poor clutch, oil leaks and the handbrake… 

[BankFodder]

What about the ordinary brakes and the steering ?

I'm quite sure that a second MOT could be extremely valuable .

 

 

 

[Standing up for me]

The squib is defective on the steering .. rear brakes have some corrosion.. but nothing major .. just thought … I can’t sorn it anyway … I don’t have the V11 !!!!! I never transferred the car into my name as I rejected it pretty much straight away…. So I’ve had no tax reminders etc for the car therefore I can’t sorn it (I could attempt to park it in my back garden if I was able to sorn it)

 

so I am unsure of what to do here .. I am training to be a solicitor so can’t afford any offence to be committed as the SRA will strike me off before I even qualify  

[BankFodder]

Even if you are not the legal owner, clearly the vehicle is in your care and I have a sense that insurance requirements are strict liability.

I do think that a second MOT would be extremely useful if it turned out as a fail .

 

Of course, if it was simply a pass and confirmed the first MOT then it would not be helpful, but you wouldn't have lost anything except for the money and effort involved in getting it tested for the second time .

 

 

 

 

[Standing up for me]

I’ve just managed to speak to my mechanics around the corner and they’re going to get it booked in for an MOT ASAP for me .. I’ll update you when that’s done .. thank you