Housing Association taking away internet access due to kiosk mode

[stu007]

Hi

 

I have to agree you need to add that to the complaint letter I have done for you in post#18 (just add it into that letter)

[brassnecked]

22 hours ago, Dave2019 said:

For years, every tenant had their own private account if they wanted one. This meant that when you switched the computer on, you got a screen with a list of tenants, each one with an 'avatar' just to the left of the name (if they wanted an avatar). You clicked on your name, then put in your own indidivual password, to gain access to the computer. This meant you could store files securely, you could have your own set of bookmarks for the Internet, and so on.

Yes as per myself and Stu send that Formal Complaint clearly worded as such if you can get other Tenants to sign it as well, or even send their own complaint, and include that wording you posted here in the letter of complaint it succinctly illustrates what the issue is and what pertained previously I would also copy it to that useless Council zonk.

 

Might be worth shaming them in the press if the complaint goes unheeded, nothing worse than pushing a digital divide on elderly residents of a block like yours.

[Dave2019]

Original poster here.

 

Once again, I want to thank everyone for their help. I thought I should do an update.

 

The big problem here is that my housing association has only one attitude and that is: 'We decide what the tenants get, and if they disagree, hard luck'. For this reason, the only hope we have of getting our computer back to a usable state is if we involve an outside party, so the other day, I emailed my MP. I'd really appreciate people's opinions on this email. I've redacted it as necessary:

 

"Dear X

 

I would appreciate your help with a problem I and other tenants at [name of housing scheme], are having with our housing provider [name of housing association], concerning our communal computer.

 

Ours is a scheme of 45 flats, and we share one computer (it isn't really enough, but that is another matter). As we are social tenants, many of us are not financially well off, and cannot afford broadband in our homes, or a smartphone with a broadband contract, so we have to rely on this one computer. Ever since I came here in 2010 until recently, there have been no problems with this. The computer was set up so that each tenant could have their own private account, accessed by their own password. This meant that if you needed to download a file from the Internet, or paste text from a website into a text editor like Notepad and then just store it in your account, you could. It also meant that if you needed to send someone a document via email, you could put it on a USB stick and upload it, and if someone sent you a document, you could download it onto a USB stick for safekeeping. It also meant you could print things, by saving the document to a USB stick and finding a tenant with a printer (I used to use this all the time, as I have a very old computer that has a printer - though I can't afford to have broadband). You could save 'bookmarks' for favourite websites as well.

 

But a few weeks ago, without any warning, and without consulting any of the tenants, the housing association suddenly changed everything. We switched it on one morning to find that the browser was now Microsoft Edge - not a problem in itself - but also that it had been configured into 'Kiosk Mode'. This means that the housing association has in effect locked us out of the computer. In Kiosk mode, you can look at stuff on the Web, and send and receive emails, but that is all. You cannot attach documents to emails or download documents. You cannot download anything from the Internet. You cannot get a document from the Internet to print it elsewhere. You cannot even copy and paste within the browser, which makes using the Internet very difficult. For instance, when I looked up your email, I would normally have just copied and pasted into this message, but instead I had to copy it by hand. A web forum is helping me with this matter and I will be pasting this email into a post (redacting all names, of course). Before, it would just take minutes, but now, I will have to go into town and get onto a computer at the library to do this. It also means that if you want to paste a URL into a forum post, the only thing you can do it type out the URL manually, and the URL for some web pages can consist of dozens of letters, numbers and symbols.

 

Platform claims the change is to protect tenants' security, but I doubt this: in all the years the old system was in operation, I never heard of any tenant having a problem with security. There has only been one instance of a virus getting onto the computer, and that was from someone going to an infected website, which could happen under this new system as well. Another problem is that whereas Google Chrome had its own ad-blocker, Edge on this computer does not (Edge does have its own an ad-blocker, but it is an 'add-on', and though it would take only minutes to add it, the IT department will not. I could do it myself, but everything to do with configuring Edge is locked away from us tenants). This means that viewing some website, like those of the Independent or the Guardian, is hardly worth the trouble - you just get animated pop-ups everywhere, and every Youtube video is interrupted every three minutes or so.

 

Platform told me that we could solve the problem of not being able to download documents to a USB stick by saving them to The Cloud, but some of us, me included, hate the idea of our information being stored somewhere on the Internet, out of our control. I for one prefer to store it in my home, and this was simple until our housing association changed everything.

 

I know a fair amount about computers, and I can say with confidence that it would be perfectly possible for the housing association to change things back to how they were without putting anyone at risk. The only change that needs to stay is the Edge browser, as Chrome will soon not be supported, but otherwise, it could all go back with what we were used to, and what we have been using without any problems for at least the last 12 years.

 

I am sure you will have seen that, with every year that passes, access to the Internet becomes more and more important; it is approaching a point where normal life without such access will be difficult or impossible. As such, what is being called 'digital exclusion' is becoming a major concern, and nowhere is such exclusion more prevalent than in elderly social tenants, especially those who, like us at [name of housing scheme], are also physically isolated because of our rural location. I myself do not have a car, and there are quite a few other tenants like me, and since the bus service was drastically cut back to one bus every two hours, our dependence on proper Internet access is even more important. I would therefore say that when it comes to tackling digital exclusion, Platform is seriously failing to meet a proper standard of service, and its locking us all out of the computer was a totally unacceptable thing to do.

 

I have tried discussing this with the housing association but have got nowhere. One of our local councillors approached the housing association on our behalf but judging from his reply to me, he got the same result. I am therefore asking you to ask the housing association either to change things back to how they were or else give you a good reason why this cannot be done. Thank you."

 

Yours sincerely"

 

Not sure if this will do any good, as our MP is sort of hand in glove with this housing association, and will probably make just a token effort, but I can't think of anything else to do.

 

I just wish we had some sort of legal redress.

[dx100uk]

That will be binned immediately.

 

One page

A few very brief paragraphs of no more than 20 words.

 

Dx

[honeybee13]

I agree with dx about keeping it to one side of A4. I think more than 20 words per paragraph is fine though, I've never seen that rule, but keep them shortish.

 

HB

[brassnecked]

Agree make sure it sghows that you are being effectively digitally excluded were before you had reasonable viable access.  Looks like that HA is not a TPAS member as well.

[Dave2019]

2 hours ago, dx100uk said:

That will be binned immediately.

 

One page

A few very brief paragraphs of no more than 20 words.

 

Dx

 

Thanks. The thing is, I've already sent it. What should I do? Should I send a shorter one?

[The GodMother]

No. 

 

If you get nothing back after about 6 weeks, remember its the easter recess coming, then follow up with a phone call. 

 

Some MPs are better than others and will want as much info as possible with others only able to fill.out the claim forms and show up when a photo op is available. 

[brassnecked]

No harm done  I see DX's point about as short letter, however what you have written has entirely illustrated what the issues are and what prevailed before, anyway, give them time and chase up as suggested above, meanwhilesee if the local press are interested, As the government and councils want digital delivery maybe the press will catch on to how the HA have actually Digitally Excluded tyou unilaterally when you had a workable IT provision they have now revoked with no reason given.

[The GodMother]

Good call on the press see what local and national companys are willing to help but stay away from the red tops. They are hardly taken seriously. 

[stu007]

Hi

 

Personally I think your letter to the MP irrespective give your prospective as to what is happening with your Housing Association.

 

The big thing you should be putting over is that your Housing Association without any consultation has taken it upon themselves to Digitally Exlcude your 45 Flats of elderly resident to be able to use the internet as you were previously able to do with no issues and they have responded without a care to those residents affected.

 

I am sure this would make a great article in a local newspaper so have a wee look around a the different local newspapers in your area and contact them shame the Housing Association.

 

My own Housing Association has setup numerous Digital Cafes for resident so they are digitally included and offers different courses even as they call it 'silver surfer' for elderly residents which does not just include computer training but how to use PC, Laptops, Mobile Phones and its all free to residents all they need to do is contact the digital cafe and book an appointment slot or they can pop in to use a computer as in your case but there is always a staff member present to offer any assistance.

[brassnecked]

Agree Stu, they should be enabling their Tenants not digitally crippling them unable to use a service they enjoyed for more thabn a decade. Local Press is good idea, maybe even a national one both left and right wing Guardian, Mail etc. n This HA mus t be shamed and outed as uncaring and dictatorial.  as an aside and it can be indicative of the HA management culture, what is their record with Repairs as in ease of reporting and response?    Might just be another angle to use as an aside in any press attack.

[Dave2019]

I did write to my local newspaper (the Worcester News) about this, but did not even get a reply. I tried again this morning - here is the message, with names redacted:

 

 

"Dear Ms [NAME]

 

I saw from your newspaper's website that you cover consumer affairs, so I believe you are the most appropriate reporter for this story; if not, could you please forward it to a colleague?

 

It concerns my housing association, [NAME], and the way it has excluded me and other elderly tenants from having proper access to the Internet, without consulting us. I live in a multi-occupied housing scheme called [NAME]. Ever since I came here, we have had a communal PC connected to the Internet, and we could use it to do anything one would normally need to do. There were never any problems with this. However, a few weeks ago, without telling us, [NAME] reconfigured the PC so that now we can do virtually nothing with it. 

 

I have made valiant attempts to engage [NAME] about this, but to no avail: I cannot get a sensible answer from them.

 

As you no doubt know from your consumer affairs reporting, digital exclusion is an important issue, and I believe the elderly, and those who are isolated by their rural location, can be affected by this more than most people. 

 

Here we have 45 homes, all with elderly people in them, in a village that is poorly served by public transport, yet our landlord has for all practical purposes revoked our access to the Internet without even consulting us, and so far, has refused to let us have it back. I think this is a matter that should be covered by your newspaper. If you wish to speak to me, you would be more than welcome.

 

Yours sincerely"

 

 

Frankly, I don't expect a reply to this message either, because for some reason, this newspaper appears to hate printing anything my housing association would object to. My MP seems too close to the HA for comfort as well: if it opens a new housing scheme, she's there in the newspaper posing with the CEO, all smiles.

 

That is why I wish there was something in housing law I could argue, because I'd be willing to go to Court, even as a Litigant In Person, to get this organisation to behave properly.

[unclebulgaria67]

Is the problem that the Housing Association do not want to provide any communal computer facility ?

 

Is this because of Data Protection, Data Security and confidentiality ?  If so, I could see why they don't want to provide any facility that is used by many people.

 

If there is an internet connection  or one could be made available, why don't residents purchase their own computer, laptops or tablets, so they can connect to the internet ?

 

Suggest that you contact the Housing Associations welfare team about the problem to see if they can look into this and come back to you with what the options are, so that residents can have internet access, so they can stay in contact with family and friends.

[brassnecked]

Ideally there could be a broadband and closed WiFi for Tenants, some have PC's but can't afford the connection, however, it seems the HA is not willing to listen, so what good their welfare team would do is another story it seems.

[The GodMother]

The ability to be able to purchase a lapto .or computer might not be available to everyone. Funds could be tight. 

The company could help with this by providing 1 per flat at a discounted rate as l am sure they could purchase at a discounted rate 

[Dave2019]

Original poster here. I thought I'd bring people up to date on this.

 

I'd contacted my local newspaper, and a report did phone me and ask me about the problem. I told her everything as carefully as I could, and said I'd be more than willing to be interviewed. She said she'd contact the HA, but I've heard nothing since. My guess is that whoever she spoke to convinced her I was a 'vexatious complainant' (my HA is fond of using that term) and that's cwhy the reporter has just dropped the story.

 

I have just go an email from the CEO, but I don't find it satisfactory at all, and I'm not even sure I believe what she's saying. Here it is:

 

 

 

"I trust you are keeping well and believe we have also had a similar enquiry from your local Councillor, so thought I would write to clarify the situation regarding the computer at The Firs.

 

The computer was actually replaced last October, when the last one died. There are routine upgrades done to all Platform computers usually for security reasons.

 

The changes you have noticed on it’s operating systems and the shift to Kiosk mode are for exactly that reason, to keep the computer and our residents personal data safe and secure.

Google Chrome will no longer be supported as a product from January next year and since June last year is only getting “necessary “ maintenance by Google. So like you we are all having to move over to Edge as our new browser, although you will find once you get used to it the functionality is exactly the same as Chrome. So we cannot go backwards and re-instal a product which is going to become a security risk soon.

 

Regarding the ability to print documents from your mail box. Whilst USB drives are equally a security risk, to help with this the IT team are shortly due to instal a printer to the computer to allow direct printing of anything you should need.

 

With direct access to the internet you should be able to access your mailbox and any online storage to allow you to send documents to yourself from the internet.

 

I have asked the IT team to verify if any of our settings are preventing you copying URL’s to other platforms as this is not a standard setting and it has not come up before. If there is something preventing this which is unique to The Firs it will be removed

 

I hope you will see that this is for the safety and security of all at The Firs and Platform, which becomes ever more important every day.

 

Regards

 

Elizabeth"

 

 

 

She seems to be saying that this is all to do with safeguarding residents' personal data, but I feel certain that this could have been done without locking us out of the computer. 

 

I got a letter a while ago on this subject, and they don't even seem to be telling the truth about ad-blockers. I'd told them that we had the adblock extension on Chrome, but now, there were popups all over the place. They replied that even their staff computers don't block ads. I think that's disingenuous - I've just looked on Google, and Edge has its own adblocker - you don't even have to use a third-party program. But to activate it, you need to go to Settings, and Settings has been locked out. 

 

I think what is upsetting me the most is that they're treating us like children - I think they could easily fix it so we could download stuff, store things on the PC itself, and use USB sticks, without compromising security. After all, this was the case for at least the last 12 years. But instead they seem to have the attitude of 'don't let the tenants do any more than WE think they should be allowed to do'.

It's an attitude that pervades this organisation.

 

If the local newspaper won't run a story, the only other thing I can think to do will be to go to the Housing Ombudsman. 

[The GodMother]

Well Chrome are discontinuing support for Manifest 2 extensions Next January.

 

Google Chrome could be making some big changes to your favorite extensions | TechRadar

WWW.TECHRADAR.COM

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Developers have until 2023 to upgrade their extensions to Manifest V3

 

[stu007]

@ The GodMother

 

Reference your post#41 I am afraid this is NOT a company as you refer to but a Housing Association which all the rents that all tenants pay are for the different services that the Housing Association provides whether is be staff, communal cleaning, landscaping, building projects etc. it is not to pay for individual laptops for tenants the way you have put it over I am afraid.

 

It is the Rents of any Social Housing Sector that pay for the services that all tenants get.

 

The difference here is that computer was in place for numerous years and the Housing Association took it upon themselves to updated it for security reasons which I can understand but neglected to inform those residents of this nor offer them any training to get used to this new computer setup therefore they have digitally excluded those residents due to this change and offered no training to get used to this new system.

 

[stu007]

Hi Dave2019

 

That response from the Housing Associations CEO I bet has only happened after a certain reporter contacted them for comment as for that response it is a complete disgrace as they have neglected the fact of Digital Inclusion anf that you and others within your building were never notified of these changes nor offered and training to get used to this new software setup. 

 

It seem like the the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing what a good CEO.

 

Here is a short and sweet letter to response to CEO. (fell free to amend)

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Reference: (insert reference number if one on CEOs letter)

 

Thank you for your letter dated XX/XX 2022 but this has just added further issues to this matter that I must make you aware of .

 

The Firs Building have numerous elderly residents which the Housing Association is fully aware of:

 

1. We were never consulted nor informed of these changes taking place to the Computer that the majority of us use and are used to is setup.

 

2. I was informed by your staff that a printer was installed when if fact there has never been a printer in this location which the Housing Association are now going to install but we do not have a date when that is going to happen.

 

3. With the above all the residents that used this computer were used to the setup as it has been for numerous years before this change happened without notification and the residents are neither used to this new layout in fact find it's very difficult to use and have been offered NO assistance in the way of computer training for this new system therefore we feel we have been digitally excluded by the Housing Association.

 

4. At present due to the above we feel we have been Digitally excluded by our Housing Association and therefore require a meeting to be setup at 'The Firs' to discuss our issue in person with the Housing Association.

 

I look forward to your response.

[The GodMother]

@stu007

Had you bothered to read the 2 previous as in #39 and #40. You would notice l was replying to them rather than anything else. 

Oh and the housing association is a company. Maybe not in the same way as others but still a company. 

[brassnecked]

I mentioned this thread to TPAS, they were horrified by this TPAS is the Tenants participation  Advisory Service, for those unaware wonder if this Association is a TPAS member,  if it is it should would know that their action is not the correct way to deal with tenants and Digital Inclusion.  If it is a member of TPAS might be worth giving them a call and see if they can help.

 

Tpas :: Tenant engagement experts

WWW.TPAS.ORG.UK

---

We're Tpas, England's leading tenant engagement experts. We've been representing our members across England since 1988 and our...

 

In Wales TPAS Cymru

 

TPAS Cymru official (Tenant Participation Advisory Service o

WWW.TPAS.CYMRU

---

TPAS Cymru supports social housing tenants and landlords across Wales to develop effective participation and engagement in housing. We provide...

 

[Dave2019]

OP here. Have just found their 'manifesto' on digital inclusion. Will attach it here if my ancient tablet and my supermarket's Wi-Fi allows:

Customer-and-Community-Engagement-Strategy-2021-2026.pdf

 

gy-2021-2026.pdfCustomer-and-Community-Engagement-Strategy-2021-2026.pdfCustomer-and-Community-Engagement-Strategy-2021-2026.pdf

Edited April 15, 2022 by Dave2019

[Dave2019]

Sorry it's here twice. This tablet's a nightmare.

 

[The GodMother]

While having  not read threw everything l can safely say the they have failed. 

 

Page12 of the bottom link says what they are going to do From what you have said you have not had much of this.
Also other pages on that document shows where they have excluded you.