West Mercia Police - M5 to 4A Northbound (H) - 70 in a 60 variable zone

[Theangel1971]

Hi,

 

I received a Notice of Intended Prosecution  dated 07/03/22 from West Mercia Police Camera Ticket Office PO Box 25 Droitwich.

 

I am being fined for Exceed a variable speed limit -automatic camera device at M5 to 4A Northbound (H).

 

My recorded speed was 70 mph and the speed limit was 60 mph?? I thought the speed limit on a motorway was 70?

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

Only by default if there are no other signs.

 

Dx

[Theangel1971]

What is the best thing to do do you think?

 

[dx100uk]

plenty of speeding nips here to read.

 

get it sorted quickly and thus cheaply.

 

look at the PDF in this thread

 

 

[Man in the middle]

Along with the Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) you should find a "Request for driver's details." This is issued under Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act. Providing you are "the person keeping the vehicle" you have a duty to respond to that request by providing the driver's details within the 28 days allowed. Failure to do so will see you charged with a more serious offence which, if you are convicted, will see a hefty fine, six points and an endorsement code (MS90) which will see your insurance premiums increase considerably for up to five years.

 

Before you respond to that you can ask for "photographs to help identify the driver." They usually supply them (but don't have to) and they rarely help identify the driver. But most variable speed limit cameras now take two photos at the same time - one of the vehicle and one of the gantry sign displaying the speed limit. When you get those it will confirm what speed limit was in place at the time. You should note that making your request does not stop the 28 day clock.

 

After responding you should be offered a course for that speed provided you have not done one for an offence which occurred in the three years prior to this one. If you are not eligible or don't fancy it, the alternative is a fixed penalty of £100 and three points.

 

I take it you were not  towing anything or driving a goods vehicle over 7.5 tonnes in weight.

[mantis shrimp]

How long have you been driving? Variable speed limits have been around for a long time. 

[Theangel1971]

I wasn't towing anything and on a motorway which I assumed to be 70mph

[BazzaS]

The issue is if your (repeatedly stated!) assumption (of the 70 mph limit) was correct. The notice states "variable speed limit", and you've already been advised (by MitM) on what to do to best see if the limit shown on the gantry signs was 60mph, (and thus, if your assumption was wrong).

 

If you assumed it was 70 mph, but the gantry signs clearly showed 60 mph, assuming it was 70mph will not be a valid defence.

Stating that the sign wasn't lit when you went under it, or had literally JUST turned to 60 and no reasonable driver would have been able to slow from 70 to 60 in time would be potential defences (but you can bet that they'll have the info as to how long it was displaying 60 before you passed it .......)

[borisbeaver]

Just to add my twopennarth, aren't there speed cameras on the gantry behind the variable speed sign?  These signs are always illuminated when active and should be visible from quite a distance.

[Theangel1971]

I don't remember seeing any signs. All I remember was that I saw a bright flash in my rear side mirror and thought, that must be a speed camera and checked my speed - I was relieved to find I was driving at 70mph! 

[dx100uk]

Have you driven there before or regularly?

 

DX

[Man in the middle]

You asked what is the best thing to do. I've told you the only thing you can do. Have you done it yet? If you make your request the police usually provide a link for you to view the photographs, so it shouldn't take long. Let us know what you find out.

[Theangel1971]

No it was my first time, I was following sat nav towards my destination. Sat nav was saying 70mph. I haven't asked them to provide photographs because (they don't have to), I am just going to pay it. I have to say,  every day life is becoming more and more challenging, I don't know if anyone else is feeling the pressure. I can understand why people just keep their heads down and don't question.  

[Man in the middle]

The lesson here is do not follow satnav instructions regarding speed limits. There are temporary speed limits all over the  place apart from the variable ones on motorways, and in the main they are usually perfectly well signed. Satnavs can't usually help you with them - you have to look out of the window. In particular, variable speed limits on motorways are probably among the best signed anywhere. There are large illuminated signs on gantries at regular intervals which are clearly visible from a long distance.

 

Of course it's your call but I don't know why you don't ask for photographs. Although they don't  have to provide them they nearly always will. It will only take a phone call or an e-mail and it will satisfy your curiosity. In any case, make sure you respond to the request for driver's details in the time allowed. If your speed was 75mph or below you should be offered a course and if it was higher than that but up to 85mph you should be offered a fixed penalty (£100 and three points).

[BazzaS]

I agree with MitM.

 

I also have to wonder what the OP wants.

 

They post, (the repeated gist of their post being “I thought motorways were 70 mph”, which later morphed into “the satnav said 70 mph”), they get advised on what they could do, (and what is the only realistic thing to do if they want to see if they are liable) and then don’t do it, just posting how hard done by they are.

 

If you don’t want advice and just want a moan:

a) make it clear and / or

b) post in the “bear garden” section instead of “speeding and motoring offences”

 

Posters then won’t spend time trying to help you with the speeding ticket if that was never what you were looking for, and you don’t get seen to be not following the sensible advice given.

Edited March 15, 2022 by BazzaS

[Theangel1971]

That’s not a very nice thing to say.

 

Why would you want to post a reply that is so judgmental & scathing. You don’t know me & have based your assumptions on very little information. I

 

was seeking advice, if I had wanted to moan I certainly wouldn’t have gone to the effort of asking advice. I had read the advice & decided, based on the information that the overall gist was that I should pay the fine.

 

I think it’s ok to point out how the world is changing & becoming more difficult on a day to day basis. There really was no need for you to talk to me that way.

[BazzaS]

All anyone (unless they are psychic!) can base their responses on is what you post….. what else do you expect people to base their replies on?

 

If you post limited info : people will reply based on the limited info. I’m not sure what more (other than replies based on what you’ve posted) you can reasonably expect.

 

If you aren’t clear on what you want / how far you’ll follow the (fairly easy, and limited hassle / limited cost / limited risk) advice MitM offered you, it risks wasting their (& other respondents) time.

 

I’m still not clear on what you want to achieve by your posts?

Clarification on if variable speed limits are enforceable? Absolutely

if “I thought motorways were 70 mph” or “the SatNav told me it was 70” is a viable defence? Nope.

”Do I have to look at the big “60 in a red circle” signs and obey them? Yup

 

Is there a fairly low cost / low risk way of checking if you are liable (& it does seem likely that you are!) : Yup, per MitM’s post.

What are the likely outcome(s): again, per MitM’s post.

Edited March 15, 2022 by BazzaS

[Man in the middle]

Quote

I think it’s ok to point out how the world is changing & becoming more difficult on a day to day basis.

 

Not really. This is an advice forum, specifically for speeding and other motoring offences. It's not for tea and sympathy. There are plenty of other places where you can get that.

 

Anyway, that apart, since you seem intent on simply taking what's offered to you without discovering whether you have any angles to exploit, did they tell you what speed they allege you were travelling? You say you have decided to "pay the fine." As I mentioned, you may have the opportunity to take a course instead of paying a penalty or a fine, but that will depend on the speed alleged.

[BazzaS]

70 in a 60 as per OP’s first post.

so, likely speed awareness course (usual caveats, as per MitM’s summary in post #5), unless OP chooses instead to pay a fine / risk points…..

Edited March 15, 2022 by BazzaS