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Lowell/Overdales Claimform - old Lloyds TSB loan facilitated by Loans Direct debt subject to existing 2009 CCJ ***Claim Discontinued***


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Hi all,

 

I was wondering if anyone could advise me.

 

I had a loan with Lloyd's bank, which I defaulted on in 2007/8

 

Lloyd's took a CCJ out against me in 2009. This fell off my credit record in 2015. I did pay Lowell £15 per month against this up until 2017 and I've paid nothing since.   

 

However, Overdales acting for Lowell,  have now sent me a County Court Claim form from the county court business centre showing that they intend to take out another CCJ against me for this debt.

 

I have no details of the original CCJ, as it was in 2009, and so I can't prove I had to one challenge this.  I have read that you can't have two CCJs against the same debt, but can't find anything else. 

 

Any advice on how to defend this second CCJ would really be appreciated. 

 

I have 28 days to responded to the court From 31 Jan 22. 

 

 I'm not sure how it's fair for this to be brought back onto my credit record after such a long time and if this is actually legal.

 

Lloyd's never fully enforced the original CCJ and (from my memory) sold it to Lowel. approx 2009/10

 

Many thanks for any advice or help with this. 

Edited by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx
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  • dx100uk changed the title to Overdales sols taking CCJ out on debt which already has lloyds CCJ from 2009

 complete this please.

 

 

 

Have not got any record like old credit file copy etc of written proof of this old ccj

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you.

 

I'll fully read that tread and post the full reply here ASAP.  

 

I never thought to keep a copy, as it was so long ago. To be honest,  at the time I received the CCJ in 2009, I wasn't opening mail due to the volume of debt and don't think i was really aware of the consequences. Guess I also assumed,  once it was removed from my credit record, that would be it. 

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it will still be but you've got to prove a CCJ existed, then they cant re litigate.

were you ordered by the judge to pay £pcm or after with negotiations with lloyds? then that carried through to lowells.

the tiniest detail from memory re dates etc could be useful.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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So we can conclude that payments were made and There can't be any 6yrs gap previous to you stopping to Lowell's in 2017? Re poss statue barring?

 

It might pay you to ring Lloyd s Monday and ask if they have any written record of their ccj. And then poss get an SAR running to them 1st thing Monday.

 

Can you get that questionnaire done please

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Which Court have you received the claim from ? County Court Business Centre 4th Floor St Katherines House Northampton N1 2LH

 

Name of the Claimant ? Lowell Portfolio I Ltd, Ellington House Leeds LS10 5GA

 

Date of issue –  01 Feb 2022

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for –

Particulars of Claim : - 

 

1.The Claim is for the sum of £8154 due by the defendant under an agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 for a Lloyds banking group account with the reference XXXXXX

 

2.The defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a default notice was served  under s.87(1) of the consumer credit act 1974 which has not been complied with. 

 

3.The debt was legally assigned to us on 29/08/2018, notice of which has been given to the defendant. 

 

The claim includes statutory interest under s.69 of the county court act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issues of these proceedings in the sum of £0.00.

 

The claimant claims the sum of £8154.

 

What is the total value of the claim? £8709.01
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? I’m not 100% sire here, but having read the guidance, I would say yes.  I have received letters from Lowell and a couple of letter from Overdales about the debt.
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? No

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Loan
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? Yes

 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? It was up until approx. Oct 2015
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. The debt purchaser
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Yes

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Yes
 

Why did you cease payments? I got into further debt and thought that, as the debt was no longer on my credit file as of Oct 2015.  My last payment of £15 was in July 2017 an communication with them.
 

What was the date of your last payment? July 2017
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes, Lloyds, who ignored it and passed the debt to Lowell.  I entered into £15 per month with Lowell approx. Oct 2011.

 

Claim again.pdf

 

 

I've just gone back through and the last £15 I paid was on 03/07/2017. 

 

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thread tidied.

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.
Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...
You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.
..
get a CCA Request running to the claimant

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/

..

Leave the £1 PO unsigned and uncrossed

.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

on BOTH type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............


 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Just be aware, not that there is much evidence that Lloyds themselves do it, but, historically the group has merged, split, re-emerged, and split again so many times since your takeout, you might well get an unwelcome series of runaround to find who now has your data. 

 

There are BIN number online sites that if you take the first 6 digits of your 16 digit card number will tell you the exact type of card it really was and with whom 

 

Via a search engine you could then poss narrow down whom best to ring now that holds your data.

 

13yrs is not out of know bounds for it to still be held. Just get past the wolves at the door that immediately say no no it's outside of 6yrs we don't have it that's a scripted on screen get out ... Push.

 

Carefully explain you are being taken to court and its a very important matter that could prevent a claim of several £1000's being successful against you 

 

All you need is written proof a claim was raised/ccj judgement. 

 

That info could be usefulr

 

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I've today completed the online gateway and completed both the CCA request to Lowell's and CPR  31:14 to Overdales, will be sending by recorded post tomorrow, as didn't have access to a printer today. 

 

I've also searched through all my old docs and have no details of the Lloyds CCJ etc. 

 

Sadly,  I've not been able to get through to Lloyds and was on hold for over 60mins earlier, had to give up due to work.

 

I'll keep trying and if need be,  send a SAR, but reading up on SAR's, the replay may come outside of the date for defence.   

 

Just one question re PO, is it wiser to send a PO rather than personal cheque or are both equally suitable? 

 

Thanks you for your help. 

 

 

 

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A cheque has your signature which not saying they do but you you wouldn't want them to lift it onto any 'faked' documents..which is why we say use a po 

 

You won't necessarily need concrete proof of old ccj by defence filing date, just a line stating a previous ccj was granted 

 

document exchange is not until witness statement disclosure stage which might not ever happen.

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Hi DX, 

 

I filed the my "intention to defend all" Monday and posted letters to overdales and Lowell yesterday, by recorded post, along with postal order. Thank you very much for your help and advice on these. 

 

Yesterday I received a text from Lowell chasing me and offering to asset me paying the debt.  Today I received a letter from overdales, dated Monday 7th Feb,  advising me of similar and that I would soon receive county court papers.  But they sent those to me dated 01/02/22.  The letter ends by saying, if I fail to respond to them or to the county court papers,  they MAY enter a county court judgement against me etc.

 

This letter and text were sent to me after I'd filed my intention to defend all.

 

I'm just wondering,  once court papers are filed,  do they have to wait for that process to take place and cease to contact me, especially as  I've filed my intention to defend all.  Do you know if these  communications are breaking any rules? 

 

Also, is the "May take county court action" statement going against the fact that they have already instigated  county court action and could this be considered as  trying to confused me, which it has a little. 

 

Many thanks again for any help and advice you can give with this.  

 

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A case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing ...ignore everything except the courts directions as and when to do what.

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Hi all,

 

So I got the attached letter today from Overdales with two letters showing my debt was transferred from Lowell to Lowell portfolio 1 Ltd in July 2018, referred to as "Notice of Assignment". 

 

 It states that the remaining documents asked for, which were:-

 

-The Defualt Notice

-The Termination Notice 

-The Statement of Account 

-Details of the Contractual payments

 

 will be forwarded to me in due course, but there is no time frame given.

 

From my calculations I have until 04/03/22 to file a defence otherwise it goes to court.  

 

I was just wondering what to think of this reply.   If they fail to produce the documentation requested under 31.14 by my court date,  do they have to stop action, or would it be up to me to still file a defence?   Would the fact these documents have not been provided to me be a suitable defence? 

 

Many thanks for any help and advice  you can give.

 

 

2022-02-11 overdales reply to CPRf.pdf

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30 minutes ago, j70han said:

 

From my calculations I have until 04/03/22 to file a defence otherwise it goes to court.  

No where did you get that from??

 

you must file a defence by date else you lose by default!!

 

they dont have to disclose any documents until disclosures stage. Though as with all our defences you note none to date.

 

but your PRIORITY is to get that Lloyds info 

 

pers to prepare incase you dont get proof of old ccj id be using our enhanced google search box for 

 

claimform loan

 

and youll see our std no paperwork holding defence

 

and it will teach you what you need to do at each stage as the claim progresses.

 

DX

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks dx.

 

OK, I've filed an online Notice to defend all. Assumed I had 14 days plus anther 14 days.....  I am in touch with Lloyd's to try and get details of the account.  I'm currently trying to discuss with Lloyd arrears, getting passed about which I expected and the SAR due date submitted  will pass the court date.

 

Thanks for the link.  Just one further  quick question, would a defence that this debt has already had a ccj against it, be a sufficient defence. I appreciate I won't know until it did go to court.  But guess that's my only defence at the moment.  Would the court challenged why I did not pay it and have failed to respond to any of Lowells or Overdales letters.  

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

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On 06/02/2022 at 18:52, j70han said:

Date of issue –  01 Feb 2022

 

On 06/02/2022 at 20:01, dx100uk said:
On 16/02/2022 at 18:50, j70han said:

would a defence that this debt has already had a ccj against it

 

not alone probably no. but it wont be alone you must read up as advised earlier.

 

On 16/02/2022 at 18:50, j70han said:

Would the court challenged why I did not pay it and have failed to respond to any of Lowells or Overdales letters.  

not if the claim should not have been raised or is unproved with no enforceable paperwork.. and no you are at not at the mercy to replying to any DCA, .

 

On 16/02/2022 at 18:50, j70han said:

I've filed an online Notice to defend all

that AOS

 

 

 

 

  • Thanks 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

 

I was wondering if anyone could advise me.

 

I had a loan with Lloyd's bank, which I defaulted on in 2007/8

 

Lloyd's took a CCJ out against me in 2009. This fell off my credit record in 2015. I did pay Lowell £15 per month against this up until 2017 and I've paid nothing since.   

 

However, Overdales acting for Lowell,  have now sent me a County Court Claim form from the county court business centre showing that they intend to take out another CCJ against me for this debt.

 

I have no details of the original CCJ, as it was in 2009, and so I can't prove I had to one challenge this.  I have read that you can't have two CCJs against the same debt, but can't find anything else. 

 

Any advice on how to defend this second CCJ would really be appreciated. 

 

I have 28 days to responded to the court From 31 Jan 22. 

 

 I'm not sure how it's fair for this to be brought back onto my credit record after such a long time and if this is actually legal.

 

Lloyd's never fully enforced the original CCJ and (from my memory) sold it to Lowell. approx 2009/10.

 

 

My Particulars of claim were : - 

 

Which Court have you received the claim from ? County Court Business Centre 4th Floor St Katherines House Northampton N1 2LH

 

Name of the Claimant ? Lowell Portfolio I Ltd, Ellington House Leeds LS10 5GA

 

Date of issue –  01 Feb 2022

 

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for –

Particulars of Claim : - 

 

1.The Claim is for the sum of £8154 due by the defendant under an agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 for a Lloyds banking group account with the reference XXXXXX

 

2.The defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a default notice was served  under s.87(1) of the consumer credit act 1974 which has not been complied with. 

 

3.The debt was legally assigned to us on 29/06/2018, notice of which has been given to the defendant. 

 

The claim includes statutory interest under s.69 of the county court act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issues of these proceedings in the sum of £0.00.

 

The claimant claims the sum of £8154.

 

What is the total value of the claim? £8709.01
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? I’m not 100% sure here, but having read the guidance, I would say yes.  I have received letters from Lowell and a couple of letter from Overdales about the debt.
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? No

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Loan
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? Yes

 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? It was up until approx. Oct 2015
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. The debt purchaser
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Yes

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Yes
 

Why did you cease payments? I got into further debt and thought that, as the debt was no longer on my credit file as of Oct 2015.  My last payment of £15 was in July 2017 an communication with them.
 

What was the date of your last payment? July 2017
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes, Lloyds, who ignored it and passed the debt to Lowell.  I entered into £15 per month with Lowell approx. Oct 2011.

 

I was just about to post my defence,  having received no reply to the CCA request and only a letter of assignment from Overdales in response to the CPR 31.14, which was sent to the wrong address.   

 

I've read a number of the other threads on here around CCJ defences and have tried to formulate my defence from these and was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on it before I formally submit it to the court.   

 

My main concern is my defence point 2, does this come across as admitting to the loan.  Should I just remove the CCJ part and take that forward at a latter date?  

 

Many thanks again for any advice on this.  

 

Particulars of Claim : - 

 

1.The Claim is for the sum of £8154.01 due by the defendant under an agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 for a Lloyds banking group PLC account with an account  reference of XXXXXX

 

2.The defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a default notice was served under s.87(1) of the consumer credit act 1974 which has not been complied with. 

 

3.The debt was legally assigned to us on 29/06/2018, notice of which has been given to the defendant. 

 

4.The claim includes statutory interest under s.69 of the county court act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issues of these proceedings in the sum of £0.00.

 

5.The claimant claims the sum of £8154.

 

What is the total value of the claim? £8709.01

 

Defence : -

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature.   The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r.16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Particulars of Claim point 1 is noted. The Defendant has in the past had financial dealings with TSB Bank, then formally Lloyds Bank PLC between 1987 to 2009,  however, is unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or debt by which the Claimant refers to within this claim. The Defendant recalls Lloyds Bank PLC obtaining a County Court Judgment against her sometime between 2008/2009 for a defaulted unsecured personal loan.

 

The Defendant no longer has any records or documentation pertaining to this loan or County court Judgement due to the timeframe that has lapsed.  

 

Lloyds Bank PLC have advised the Defendant “verbally” that they are unable to confirm if this loan is in fact the same loan now pursed by the Claimant, due to their records being archived.  

 

LLloyds Bank PLC did advise the Defendant that the account referred to by the claimant was closed by them in August 2008. 

 

The Defendant has had no further personal loans with Lloyds Bank PLC since 2008/09 and therefore assumes the Claimant is pursuing a debt through the County Court system for which a County Court Judgement has already been set against.

 

3. Particulars of Claim point 2 is denied. I am unaware of any service of a Default Notice pursuant to section 87 of the consumer credit Act 1974. I have sought verification from the claimant regarding this matter and to date they have failed comply.

 

4. Particulars of Claim point 3 is denied. I am unaware of any debt being legally assigned to the Claimant on 29/06/2018.

 

  I have asked the Claimant for proof of this Notice and was provided with copies of two letters, both dated 16/07/2018. 

 

However, both letters were incorrectly addressed with a partial address.  My address at that time was X, the copies of the letters show they were sent to X, which is totally different address in existence. 

 

As these letters were posted to the wrong address, it is unlikely I would have received them.


5. The Defendant has sought clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 through signed delivery dated 08/02/2022. To this date the claimant has been unable to comply fully with this request and therefore has been unable to prove its basis of claim, pleaded within its particulars of Claim and consequently is prevented from enforcing the agreement until such compliance.

 

6. The Claimant was requested on 08/02/2022, pursuant to s.77 of the consumer credit Act 1974, by way of  a signed delivery enclosing a £1 postal order, to provide a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the account, together with any other documentation the Act requires them to provide. 

 

The Claimant has neither acknowledged this request or provided the documentation.

 

7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-

 

a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and;

b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for and;

c) show the nature of the breach and evidence by way of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim

e) show that the Defendant has correctly been provided Notice of Assignment.

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Do not submit the above if the debt is already subject to a judgment....I will pop in tomorrow and advise.

 

Andy

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Have you got details of the original judgment ...claim number date of judgment ?

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi Andyorch,

 

No, that was the problem.

 

I do recall defaulting in  2008/09 and recall it dropping off my credit file approx Oct 2015.  But I only ever had one loan with Lloyd's that defaulted and that was the one they put a ccj on. 

 

I've contacted Lloyd's over the phone, who advised me that all my accounts were archived and I'd have to write to their archived team, which would take time. 

 

They did advise me that Lowell had contacted them, and they appeared to be asking for the documents I requested in the CPR 31.14 letter. it would appear Lowell don't have these documents either, or didn't a couple of weeks ago.

 

Without any evidence of the CCJ I'm a little stuck because, if I can't prove it and Lloyd's no longer have the records due to its age and or DPA, I'm not sure how to defend it on that basis. 

 

Any advice would be appreciated. 

Thank you  

 

 

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You could check the Land Registry if not already to see if a Charge was placed in connection to the judgment or make an inquiry with the Registry Trust from their archives. 

 

https://www.registry-trust.org.uk/

 

We could do with some help from you.

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WWW.TRUSTONLINE.ORG.UK

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Ok, thanks, I wasn't aware of this.   I'll request a full report, you never know, it maybe there. 

  

Also, if I can't find details of the old CCJ, is my defence sufficient or should I remove any mention of the CCJ.  Is there anything I could add that may enhance it a little. 

 

Many thanks for your help. 

 

 

 

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