Problems with Rundles - and ctax LO

[ladyh0]

Hi all and thanks in advance for any advice you can give me.

 

I have a liability Order for council tax arrears of just on £600.00. It dates back to 20/21 when the council took away my 25% single person discount and i am dealing with this to find out why.  I couldn't afford the additional increase so carried on paying my usual monthly amount and the arrears ran up.

 

The enforcement has been passed on to rundles and I got an initial letter asking me to contact the agent to arrange payment, which I did. I offered £125.00 per month which he refused straight up and said that he would only accept full payment and refused to negotiate any further.  I contacted the council who said that, as it had been passed on, I had to deal with the bailiffs.

 

The enforcement guy then came to my house a few days later (last Thursday) and we had the same conversation with him saying he will only accept full payment, and me telling him £125.00 was all I could afford. 

 

My car was on the driveway at the time (it is usually in garage but was just about to head out on school run) and he said he could take that and sell it. 

 

Now i have read up on the blag that bailiffs give you, my car is on HP only taken out 3 months ago so am i right in thinking he cant take it.  Wouldn't be worth it anyway as HP is more than the value of the car.  My car is now locked in the garage when I am not out in it.

 

As we were getting nowhere I told him conversation was over and he said he would give me a few days to think about it and suggested I tried to borrow money to pay and if not he would be back to take goods to sell.  Told him how can you when i am not allowing you in the property and he just walked away.

 

 I have had a text message from them everyday since saying they will re-attend to complete their action which may occur in your absence.

 

I decided to make a payment on their online pay point but when I put reference in it says they cannot accept payment as i need to contact the enforcement officer to make arrangements. 

 

I am now at a loss what i should do, council say i need to deal with bailiffs, bailiff wont accept anything less than full payment and i am trying to pay but cant.

 

Any help/advice from you guys would be most appreciated.

 

Many Thanks 

Edited February 28, 2022 by dx100uk
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[unclebulgaria67]

You need to make a complaint to the Council about the single persons discount being removed. 

 

£125 a month is reasonable. Complain to the Council as they are responsible for actions of Rundles. 

 

Make the complaint in writing and send a copy to your local Councilor. You should be able contact your local Councillor and find out there email address, as well as the Council Tax manager at the Council.

[dx100uk]

Did you receive a notice of enforcement @£75 giving you 7 days before th e actual visit and the extra £235 visit fee being added?, The total of £310 is all they can ever add in fees. If you continue to ignore them the only option left is for them to hand the debt back.

 

 

[ladyh0]

I knew about the £75.00 but as I contacted them to try and reach an agreement I wasn't expecting a visit. 

 

He handed me a notice of intention to take control of goods but it only had a current balance on it so dont know if this includes their fees. 

 

I will call council tomorrow to ask for the amount of the liability order. 

I have searched and found my local councillor's details so i will email council and copy her in.

 

I would expect council would not be impressed with reasonable offer not being accepted !

I will update the thread when I have spoken to council and thank you for advice  so far 

Edited February 28, 2022 by dx100uk
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[dx100uk]

so you did speak to the bailiff on the phone before he attended and thus i expect added the extra £235 too cheeky beggar

 

you might have an angle to argue that fee might not be appropriate, just because he was being obstructive to create a visit to charge it.

 

you can pay the council directly just add the £75.

 

no harm in asking them whats going on.

 

just remember there is no right of forced entry on CTAX debts.

 

dx

 

 

[ladyh0]

Yes I did speak to him so complied with the request to call them. 

I have no issue with paying the 75.00. 

 

Correct on the visit which was a waste of time and will argue this. 

 

My concern is that if I pay council direct they will apportion this to this years bill (i have dd set up for this )

 

Just hoping that Council use common sense now and take instructions back from bailiff so I can pay arrears off. 

So stressful  

[dx100uk]

well take these issues up with the council CTAX dept.

 

the council can't stop your payments, the payment info is on your appropriate ctax bill 

[ladyh0]

have just spoke to council and she was helpfulish. 

 

Told me they need to accept reasonable offer and it was not helpful if they wouldn't. 

 

She said she would speak to the manager and when she came back she told me not to engage with the agent but to email Rundles and this would go to the back room and the agent would not be involved. 

 

She said to make it clear that i had spoken to council. 

 

She wished me luck so clearly I am not the only disgruntled debtor. 

 

I have emailed them so fingers x and I will update     

Edited March 3, 2022 by dx100uk
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[brassnecked]

 Definitely chase the removal of that discount, you are the sole occupier and no one else on the register of electors at your address?  If its their error they will be liable to remove the arrears and recalculate the bill, their problem is They will then owe the bailiff their fees.

 

Follow what Unclebulgaria has advised, and find out what led to the removal, if a clerical error they will have to recall the LO from the bailiff as the arrears were fa a mistake.  Also if they messed up and won't remove LO complain to Local Government Ombudsman once Council complaints procedure exhausted.

[Peterbard]

You cannot pay the the council direct Dx unless there has been new case law  i am not aware of.

 

?

 

 

[dx100uk]

you can pay the council directly and it's been done upon numerous threads both you PB and BA have advised upon here previously.

 

as long as it's realised legitimate bailiff fees get taken 1st/too/as well, however, there appears to be doubt the attendance £235 fee IS due.

 

pers i'd let the council sort that out rather than blindly paying a poss extra £235, as they instructed and are equally responsible for the actions of the bailiffs they employ.. right or wrong.

 

a bailiff should simply NOT be saying i won't enter a payment arrangement solely to gander a £235 visit fee when the council are CLEARLY stating he should not do that..............

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

[ladyh0]

Thanks for that guys. 

 

I have not had a response from Rundles but their automatic e-mail response says 6 working days so i will give them to early next week and then contact the council again asking them to take back and pay them direct.

 

I have this morning received another letter from them saying that, as they have not received payment, they are opening an "active file" (what even does that mean!)  and it could result in committal proceedings. 

 

Regarding the removal of the 25% discount I was told by the Council a few weeks back when i put in my complaint that they now send out letter asking if your circumstances have changed and if you don't respond to this letter then your discount is removed. 

 

i have never heard of this and as far as i am aware I never received one of these letters from them.  I would certainly have responded if I had. Thank you for the advise on this and i will follow this.

 

LadyH 

[brassnecked]

Respond to them saying you never had the letter and put a letter in stating nothing has changed and you should still be entitled to the discount

[Peterbard]

No , dx I am sorry. You can try if you like.

 

But they should  not accept, once the power has been transferred to the bailiff via the act. Not the LO. The LO.m3erely confirms the debt, and cannot be cancelled.

.

[Bailiff Advice]

On 03/03/2022 at 01:31, dx100uk said:

you can pay the council directly and it's been done upon numerous threads both you PB and BA have advised upon here previously.

 

 

 

This is a very important subject and I really must set the record straight.

 

If it is the case, that I had previously advised on the forum that a person who has received a Notice of Enforcement should pay the council direct (instead of the enforcement company), then the advice given is WRONG.

 

In fact, there is a very detailed thread that I started regarding this subject (paying the council direct)  and where the debtor has lost a case in court and had significant court costs. 

 

Once a Notice of Enforcement has been issued, then payment is due to the enforcement company...together with the £75 Compliance fee. If payment is made to the council, then almost all local authorities will forward that payment to the relevant enforcement company. This is because; from any payment made, the Compliance fee of £75 must first be deducted and the balance apportioned on a 'pro rata' basis (split between the council tax debt and any remaining bailiff fees). 

[Peterbard]

With respect  Dx you are confusing enforcement with actions taken by the authority  leading upto the issuance of a liability order. A liability order cannot be changed  even if it is questioned, it can be withdrawn from enforcement  but that is an issue apart.

You also contradict yourself in saying first it is not about fees, then it is, and

"you should not pay blindly."

.I have to say, if it isn't about fees,why not pick up the phone and pay the bailiff?

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, Bailiff Advice said:

This is because; from any payment made, the Compliance fee of £75 must first be deducted and the balance apportioned on a 'pro rata' basis (split between the council tax debt and any remaining bailiff fees). 

Yes pointed out that earlier.

 

Dx

[Bailiff Advice]

On 03/03/2022 at 10:24, ladyh0 said:

 

Regarding the removal of the 25% discount I was told by the Council a few weeks back when I put in my complaint that they now send out letter asking if your circumstances have changed and if you don't respond to this letter then your discount is removed.

 

 

What the council told you is absolutely correct. A single person discount is a very substantial amount (25%) and just because a person may have been awarded SPD in one year, it may well be the case that the following year, the single person's  partner may have moved into the house. The single person may have also got married.

 

Most importantly, during the 2 year pandemic, many adult persons moved BACK to their mother's home. Therefore the mother would no longer be entitled to SPD etc. 

 

PS: Just a snapshot as to why checks are carried out each year regarding entitlement to Single Person Discount. 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Bailiff Advice