UKPCM/Gladstone ANPR PCN Letter Of Claim - Mansfield Manor Hotel NG18 2AL

[NotMyTicket]

Hi, 

Firstly, thanks for all the guidance you give. I don't know if I have a unique problem or if I just couldn't find it in the forum. 

 

My wife received a PCN for parking in a car park where she always had and hadn't realised that car park management had been introduced.

 

We initially ignored everything as we were badly advised and didn't look into it further.

 

I have now received a letter before claim dated 25/01/2022 but only received it yesterday. 

 

The original PCN from 23/09/2019 does state POFA so I imagine I'm liable now as registered keeper. 

 

The hotel is now closed and reopened as a wedding venue and I didn't know if that gave me any traction?

 

Any help would be appreciated as, it would appear, with the date of the letter before claim that I do not have much time to respond. 

 

Thanks in advance for any help

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG.

 

Could you let us have information, or as much as you have, requested in the forum sticky please? Then we can start advising you.

 

 

Best, HB

[NotMyTicket]

1 Date of the infringement

23/09/2019
 

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

26/09/2019

 

3 Date received

Not sure but I'd say within 14 days of the infringement
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

Y
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal

No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company?

UK Car Park Management LTD

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Mansfield Manor Hotel NG18 2AL

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

IAS on the PCN

 

Please find attached a copy of the PCN and LBC which I have, hopefully, redacted correctly. 

 

Thanks for the timely response. Hopefully this gives you the information you require to aid me in which path I need to follow next. 

 

PCN.pdf LBC.pdf

[dx100uk]

So 5 days to get your snotty letter to useless gladdy's

 

plenty of them here

 

 

[NotMyTicket]

How does this sound? I'm not 100% sure what to put regarding the 'vehicle not registered' reasoning for the PCN. 

 

Dear Gall Stone,

 

Thanks for your Letter Before Claim.  It cheered me up during the dreary weather. I honestly nearly couldn't type this out through the laughing tears at the thought of you expecting me to be scared of your bullying tactics. 

 

Not sure what to put here regarding the vehicle not registered if there is a requirement to put something

 

I love not only the £60 Unicorn Food Tax but also inflating solicitors' costs to £80 - Not sure the judge would though.  F0HM9E9Z.  Lewes.  Go and look it up.

 

You can either drop this ridiculousness now or your clients can expect a good hiding in court. The choice is yours.

 

I look forward to hearing nothing from you

[dx100uk]

Dont say about vehicle..

good work!!

 

Dx

[NotMyTicket]

Do I send this to Gallstones with their reference number only or do I need to send it to UKCPM as well?

 

Do I need to do anything else at this point or is this all for now?

 

Lastly, am I best to do it via post or email? 

 

Thanks for your help to now

[dx100uk]

To both

Let the experts help too before you send.

 

Once sent other than reading lots of threads here, yours is not the next move.

 

Dx

[dx100uk]

Oh and you never ever use email nor give one to these fleecers.

 

DX

[NotMyTicket]

OK. Perfect. Thanks. I'll await the experts but get the letter typed up properly ready to edit and print. 

I'm guessing I just use the addresses given by the letters from each joker?

[FTMDave]

Just one quick thing - was your wife a customer at the hotel?

[NotMyTicket]

She was not but the car parking had always been shared before between the businesses there and there was no signage at the entrance to show change

[FTMDave]

I know you're new to the forum but you've gone straight to the top of the list in the snotty letter stakes!  So -

 

 

Dear Gall Stone,

 

thanks for your Letter Before Claim.  It cheered me up during the dreary weather.  I honestly nearly couldn't type this out through the laughing tears at the thought of you expecting me to be scared of your bullying tactics. 

 

I love not only the £70 Unicorn Food Tax but also inflating solicitors' costs to £80 - not sure the judge would though.  Oh and PAPLOC does not include dating your letters 25 January and getting them to motorists on 19 February no doubt in a risible attempt to intimidate with your silly deadline.

 

You've done no due diligence and haven't got the foggiest why the driver parked where they did.

 

You can either drop this ridiculousness now or your clients can expect a good hiding in court.  The choice is yours.

 

I look forward to hearing nothing from you.

 

COPIED TO UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LTD

 

 

Tomorrow invest in two 2nd class stamps and get two free Certificates of Posting from the post office.

 

I've slightly changed what you drafted as the judgement we were beating them with at the time and that you quoted unfortunately got overturned.  They never do any due diligence so I've tried to hint your wife might have had good reason to park there as they won't know any different.

[lookinforinfo]

 

I wouldn't worry too much about CPM. Their PCN was not PoFA compliant so they cannot pass whatever liability they think they have on to the keeper.

In your letter to Gallstones you could tell them that the NTK is non compliant and as you were not the driver any further letters to you will be treated as a breach of your GDPR and should it go to Court you would be asking for £750 since you know the situation.

 

 

[NotMyTicket]

I, from reading through the PCN, thought it was compliant. Thanks for letting me know. Could you explain to me why it is not just so I can understand it better please? I'll get another letter drafted up ready for viewing. Thanks again to everyone for their help so far. It truly is much appreciated. 

[lookinforinfo]

There are two things wrong with it not necessarily major things but in Schedule 4 when completing the Notice to keeper, the PCN must comply. In legalese "must" is important .

So when the period of parking is asked for it must be a period of time, not just a time. For example 2.30pm t0 2.45pm is a period of time whereas 2.30pm is not.  Schedule 4 9 [2]  The notice must

Schedule 4 9 2[2] [a] specify............. the period of parking.....

The second thing is the wording at the end of the PCN when talking about the transfer of liability from the driver to the keeper.  Schedule 4 [9] [2] [f]

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

The piece in brackets is missing in their PCN and it is important especially as they have not even got the NTK correct.

[NotMyTicket]

Thanks for the edit in the draft @FTMDave Please find below my new draft with the info given by @lookinforinfo

 

Dear Gall Stone,

 

thanks for your Letter Before Claim.  It cheered me up during the dreary weather.  I honestly nearly couldn't type this out through the laughing tears at the thought of you expecting me to be scared of your bullying tactics. 

 

I love not only the £70 Unicorn Food Tax but also inflating solicitors' costs to £80 - not sure the judge would though.  Oh and PAPLOC does not include dating your letters 25 January and getting them to motorists on 19 February no doubt in a risible attempt to intimidate with your silly deadline.

 

You've done no due diligence and haven't got the foggiest why the driver parked where they did.

 

Also, the Notice To Keeper is non compliant and as I wasn't the driver any further letters to me will be treated as a breach of GDPR and, should it go to Court, I will be asking for £750. 

 

You can either drop this ridiculousness now or your clients can expect a good hiding in court.  The choice is yours.

 

I look forward to hearing nothing from you.

 

COPIED TO UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LTD

 

Hope this makes sense. I'm guessing I just add the addresses of the companies at the top, my name and address and the reference numbers from each party so they know who to reply to? Also, a yours faithfully of course. 

 

Quite enjoying this now because of all of your help. 

 

Thanks for the detailed answer @lookinforinfo

Again, much appreciated 

 

[lookinforinfo]

Well I'd be hoping they did write again.  Giving them a trouncing in Court plus walking out with an extra £500+ would seem like a good day out.

[FTMDave]

4 hours ago, NotMyTicket said:

Hope this makes sense. I'm guessing I just add the addresses of the companies at the top, my name and address and the reference numbers from each party so they know who to reply to? Also, a yours faithfully of course.

Yep, get the two letters off tomorrow.

[NotMyTicket]

Will do. Thanks. I'll get them printed and sent tomorrow after work. 

[NotMyTicket]

Letters sent and Certificate of Posting obtained. Thanks for everything up to now. Is there anything else I need to send / request or do I just wait it out now? 

[dx100uk]

nope await /if you ever get a letter of claim.

 

now time to get upto speed on the whole speculative invoice debacle.

 

read as many as you can of any PCN threads here in this very same forum yours is in.

 

the more you read the stronger we become 

[NotMyTicket]

Hi, 

I have a little update. 

I've received two letters from the parking guys in reply to my letter. See attached. I'm guessing I just ignore? I did notice the issue dates are different on both letters.... 

UKCPM Letter 1.pdf UKCPM Letter 2.pdf

[FTMDave]

Ignore their bilge.  You've told them to put up or shut up.  Yours is not the next move.

[lookinforinfo]

You would have to wonder if these idiots at CPM can read or f they do can they understand English.

You responded to their LBC so not an appeal. Dummies.

You told them that their PCN was not compliant and they say they are going to get their debt collectors to write. Morons. But at least you can claim money from them for breach of GDPR>