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How do I stand now with NatWest?


Outacash
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Well guys, how long DO NatWest keep their statements and other client information then?

 

I have a long-standing debt to NatWest which I have recently decided to challenge on feeling more empowered ... through using and reading through these forums.

 

I have just received a letter from NatWest (in LATE response to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request, following a reminder letter for non-provision) ... stating that they cannot provide all of the data I have requested in my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) for the whole length of my account with them (some eighteen years).

 

They are only able to produce balance printouts back to 2002 (with the words "please destroy, do not despatch" printed on them ??) and a printed list of credited payments to my account from 2002 back to 1999.

 

They state that they "have not been able to locate any contracts/agreements relating to this account" and that they have provided "all the data that we (they) currently hold on file for you (me) at this office" (NatWest credit management services, Telford).

 

Anyone care to expand on whether I will actually be able to get true copies of my information as per SAR for the length of my account? ... or even for the seven years since my account was transferred to the Telford branch (1999)? They say they are unable to trace ANY other records for my account ???

 

It seems that they are either playing games with me about the information they have, or it is perhaps located elsewhere and they cannot or don't want to provide it, or it has genuinely been "lost" ... which opens up a whole new ball game ...

 

Anyone care to venture where I might stand legally on the strength of this response from NatWest? ...

 

Boy oh boy isn't this whole banking lark a bit of a minefield!

 

Thanks in anticipation of your knowledgeable responses!!

 

Cheers! :confused:

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Outacash ...

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Dear oh dear, Credit Management Services formally Insolvency and debt revovery department, you guys really need to to know the NatWest Archive system. Good old NatWest PLC system that recorded all the times when items are returned, when a marketing note was put on, when someone made an encashment in the early days.

As I know and you know the banks may monitor sites like this so here is a message for them. STOP PLYING PEOPLE WITH FALSEHOODS IF YOU CANNOT BE ASKED TO TAKE 5 MINUTES AND PRINT OUT NOTES OF THE NATWEST ARCHIVE AND WHILE YOU ARE DOING THIS TRY ORDERING STATEMENTS AS WELL. NatWest PLC(no longer as many a person has lamented) started computerisation in 1991 so data should still be available back to the point in time. The agreements bit, possibly loan paperwork alas may well be unavailable due to the course of time when they would be kept, about 6 years but statements- read above. In relation to destroying statements I think another member who joined recently used to work in the statements, her name eludes me at the moment, but she uses the more blunter form of falsehoods. Statements were destroyed rather than sent out and to this day statements are still destroyed if the account is at Credit Management Services. That may be more helpful than NatWest are being.

Bingo I said I knew the person it is Loristar

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I came I saw I helped. I could do no more.

 

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I would really be surprised if Natwest have lost records of your account, particularly within the 6 year period. I would send the DPA LBA letter from the library directly to the Data Controller for Natwest by recorded delivery. This might prompt them into action. The Data Controller of a company is specifically responsible for all the information kept about you and compliance with the DPA.

BEFORE starting your claim read through the FAQ's and if there's something you aren't sure of then ask.

If you win, donate to this site

Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions, some formed by personal experience and some from research. If in doubt seek qualified legal advice.

 

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Thanks for the comments guys … interestingly, the latest NatWest reply came in response to the LBA letter already sent (below) … beyond the seven days given, but dated within the seven days … and took five days to be delivered to me (?) ….. I notice that I sent it to the address I had been corresponding with earlier rather than a specific Data Controller address. However, this was following an EARLIER SAR request through the Data Controller for Unidebt Collections as the previous controllers of communications for this account, yet the following communications came from NatWest at Telford and so I have continued to use this address. They are perfectly aware what a SAR is, as this early reply clearly refers to their obligation to provide data within 40 days of receiving the statutory fee! Have they used a loophole where they can say that the Data Controller has not bee informed by me directly about the SAR … even though they have received and acknowledged payment of the statutory fee for the proper purpose?? Anyway … the letter …

NatWest, Customer Services Manager,

Credit Management Services,

1st Floor, Kendal Court, Ironmasters Way,

Telford, TF3 4DT.

Your ref: XXXX/XXXXX

Dear Sir,

Branch Code: XXXXXX

Account No: XXXXXX

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

I am in receipt of the documents you have supplied in your letter of (xx November), in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated xx October 2006.

The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documentation is missing ...

1. You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges for the duration of the above account.

2. You have not provided notes or documents relating to any legal action between you and myself.

3. You have not provided notes or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.

4. You have not provided contracts/agreements relating to the account between you and myself. Also …

5. You have not responded appropriately to my further letter of xx October, and not replied at all to my letter of xx November regarding this Subject Access Request.

These points are not intended to be an exhaustive list, they are just an indication of relevant points and a reminder of some of the information that you have not yet supplied.

 

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

The time for your compliance with my request (has) expired (xx November 2006 - 40 days after your confirmed receipt of my request and the relevant fee).

If you do not comply fully with my Subject Access Request within 7 days of your receipt of this letter, I shall have no alternative but to apply to the County Court for an order to enforce compliance, together with damages at the discretion of the court.

Further … I also received a letter from Buchanan Clark and Wells giving me a FORMAL NOTICE OF DEFAULTING ACCOUNT, and threatening issue of a county court claim against me. They have been intolerable too. I replied with the following letter ten days ago …. But haven’t yet had a reply …

Buchanan Clark & Wells

11 Elm Court

Stratford-Upon-Avon

Warwickshire CU37 6PA

Dear sirs,

I am in receipt of your letter dated xx November.

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company.

 

The matter of any outstanding debt I have with your clients National Westminster Bank (NatWest) is currently in dispute.

I have no information that advises me that you have taken over any outstanding debt I have with NatWest.

If you have indeed taken over any outstanding debt I have with NatWest, then I understand you are obliged, on this formal request, to supply me with a true copy of the agreement which demonstrates this arrangement (under legislation within s.78(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 [s.77(1) for fixed sum credit]), and your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a postal order for £1.00 in payment of the statutory fee in respect of this request.

[serial number………………………….……].

I am also entitled to a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above agreement.

 

You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under s.189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is an offence under the above Act, and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

Interesting huh????

So what is the next stage now? … issue proceedings to force them both to disclose the information they DO hold … I’m really curious as to how they can possibly enforce the debt based on their responses so far …

Looking forward to your own further responses … (sorry this was a long one!).

Cheers guys … you really make this site worth its weight in gold!

Outa J

Outacash ...

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This is interesting, to say the least, I am intrigued by your second letter above. Would I be right in thinking there is a legal brain at the source of this.

My advice has hardly any legal foundation whatsoever, however you never know it it might just work!

:cool:

 

NatWest Prelim 07.10.206

LBA 21.10.2006

MCOL 30.10.2006

Acknowledgment of Service 06.11.2006

Offer of approx 50% £2200.00 22.11.2006

Full settlement £4500 received 03.01.2007

Smile settled in full

Barclaycard settled in full

RBS Worldwide settled in full

Lloyds TSB settled in full £750.00

Lloyds TSB settled in Full £275.00 11.04.2007

Lloyds TSB business account £1376.00 AQ filed

Lloyds TSB Business account settled in full 21.05.07

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This is interesting, to say the least, I am intrigued by your second letter above. Would I be right in thinking there is a legal brain at the source of this.

 

Interesting ... YES

 

Pain in the *** ... YES

 

Fight fire with fire ? ... DEFINITELY!

 

Found in another useful posting on this site, for dealing with Debt Collection Agencies ... see debt and bailiffs advice forum ... I think this is the thread I took it from ...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-bailiffs-advice/42988-debt-too-old.html

Legal brain behind it? ... quite possibly, although I don't know the source.

Cheers :)

Outacash ...

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Guest littlesally

I am pretty sure that any account that is in dispute can not be defaulted.

 

Maybe someone could clarify this.

 

Sally x

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I am pretty sure that any account that is in dispute can not be defaulted.

 

Maybe someone could clarify this.

 

Sally x

 

If this helps ...

 

I had deliberately defaulted on payments on the basis that I wanted clarification about my debt to the bank ... so I could review my whole financial position ... and I would then be able to give a revised payment proposal. NatWest have been fully notified of financial challenges I have had throughout this period, and have allowed me occasions of non-payment before while proposals could be sorted out.

 

(This was before I had become more familiar with this Action Group and the wonderful help in the forums ...)

 

I wrote to the bank (before being aware of CAG forums and advice) and asked for my account information in order that I could consider my position, and said I would not be making any further payments until this had been properly clarified ... I guess this is the default that the DCA have written to me about, but the DCA letter was some time long after NatWest were aware of my reason for non-payment!

 

I don't think I had acted unreasonably in asking for this clarification before I commit to ,aking further payment ... especially when I doubted the overall amount I wal allegedly liable for!!

 

I still haven't made a repayment on the basis that I now cannot be certain what amount I actually owe, what charges have been applied to my account and why, and NatWest cannot or will not provide the information I ask for to clarify these matters.

 

I don't think I'm wrong here?

 

Am I??

Outacash ...

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Latest update ...

 

I have just received a letter from the DCA following my two letters above ...

 

They tell me I can have the debt fully settled if I pay them HALF of the alleged amount owed (still a few thou), in full, within the next four days (yeah, like I have that sort of cash readily available!).

 

If I miss this deadline, the full amount will be due and this early settlement arrangement will be void.

 

????

 

My thoughts are to send them a further copy of my last CCA request letter and remind them that as far as I'm concerned I owe them (DCA) nothing.

 

As for NatWest ... it would seem that they are simply refusing to comply with the requirements of the Data Proyection Act and should be reported accordingly ... for which I will be scouring the templates library and firing off an appropriate letter.

 

Anyone care to comment further? .... your responses are always more than welcome.

 

Cheers! :)

Outacash ...

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That is still a significant concession from them. My reading of that is they would prefer to negotiate than get into the legal quagmire that is threatened. Take it as the opening salvo. I presume you do accept that you have to repay some of this debt at some point? Why not go back with an alternative (low) offer, say half the debt repaid over the next three years? I don't think they will just give up, or maybe they will?

My advice has hardly any legal foundation whatsoever, however you never know it it might just work!

:cool:

 

NatWest Prelim 07.10.206

LBA 21.10.2006

MCOL 30.10.2006

Acknowledgment of Service 06.11.2006

Offer of approx 50% £2200.00 22.11.2006

Full settlement £4500 received 03.01.2007

Smile settled in full

Barclaycard settled in full

RBS Worldwide settled in full

Lloyds TSB settled in full £750.00

Lloyds TSB settled in Full £275.00 11.04.2007

Lloyds TSB business account £1376.00 AQ filed

Lloyds TSB Business account settled in full 21.05.07

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Thanks ataction ...

 

I have a long history of negotiation with NatWest, which has usually been reasonable on both sides, and with some strong wording used at times ... but they have always had the upper hand as I had assumed that they were honest, truthful, and operated my financial affairs fairly and honestly ... until the issues raised within this site have become more common knowledge.

 

I'm quite happy to negotiate again ... but this now has to be with fuller knowledge of the handling of my account by NatWest, through disclosure of my full account details (hence SAR etc).

 

My concern about the latest offer is that a) the DCA are happy to write off half of the debt that the bank were insistant on collecting?(a bit of a steep drop on the alleged overall amount owed ... too good to be true?), and b) that I'm not convinced that the debt has been accurately or fairly administered and accrued in the first place.

 

However ... negotiation is the name of the game ... but on my terms now, and with the strength of knowledge and experience of all of the good people visiting and posting on this site!

 

Cheers!

Outacash ...

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Latest update ...

 

I have just received a letter from the DCA following my two letters above ...

 

They tell me I can have the debt fully settled if I pay them HALF of the alleged amount owed (still a few thou), in full, within the next four days (yeah, like I have that sort of cash readily available!).

 

If I miss this deadline, the full amount will be due and this early settlement arrangement will be void.

 

????

 

My thoughts are to send them a further copy of my last CCA request letter and remind them that as far as I'm concerned I owe them (DCA) nothing.

 

As for NatWest ... it would seem that they are simply refusing to comply with the requirements of the Data Proyection Act and should be reported accordingly ... for which I will be scouring the templates library and firing off an appropriate letter.

 

Anyone care to comment further? .... your responses are always more than welcome.

 

Cheers! :)

 

Ok this Ref DPA http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6971-data-protection-act-non.html

 

 

Also

Your next step should be to write to both the FSA and the Trading Standards office nearest to the registered office of Buchanan Clark & Wells and complain that they have committed a criminal offence by not complying with the CCA1974.

 

Again send the letter regarding your account being in dispute. I would copy letters to Nat West as well.

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outacash, I have some good news for you because I now know for certain that statements can be retrieved from 1991, another member on this forum has posted that statements from 1992 onwards have been ordered for them.

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Thanks Lively and NWSM, you guys are just great!!

 

Letters as above will be off in the post next day or so (workload and health permitting. Anyone else got this vile cold bug going around?).

 

I'll update again when the responses come back.

 

CHEERS :)

Outacash ...

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Thanks Lively and NWSM, you guys are just great!!

 

Letters as above will be off in the post next day or so (workload and health permitting. Anyone else got this vile cold bug going around?).

 

I'll update again when the responses come back.

 

CHEERS :)

 

Hope you feel better soon.

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Can someone tell Vampiress about the info as well as I am sure it will be useful for her

 

NWSM ... would a pm indicating my thread be ok ... or are you referring to more information based on knowledge I am unaware of at the moment?

Outacash ...

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I think a PM would be good and if you have any other info she would be interested apart from statements, any info prior to 2000.

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Bumping this thread

My advice has hardly any legal foundation whatsoever, however you never know it it might just work!

:cool:

 

NatWest Prelim 07.10.206

LBA 21.10.2006

MCOL 30.10.2006

Acknowledgment of Service 06.11.2006

Offer of approx 50% £2200.00 22.11.2006

Full settlement £4500 received 03.01.2007

Smile settled in full

Barclaycard settled in full

RBS Worldwide settled in full

Lloyds TSB settled in full £750.00

Lloyds TSB settled in Full £275.00 11.04.2007

Lloyds TSB business account £1376.00 AQ filed

Lloyds TSB Business account settled in full 21.05.07

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Hi again guys ...

 

Vamp isn't accepting pm's at the moment ...

 

Any Mod or site helper able to forward this thread to her attention as indicated above?

 

Many thanks

 

Vamps is away at the moment I will find out when she is back for you.

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