Parking Eye ANPR PCN Claimform - Birchanger Services M11

[redeye]

I ignored all previous correspondence hoping it would go away (I know, I know...) but I'm hoping someone can help. 

 

Please confirm what information I should post and whether I should ask for 28 days (rather than 14) from the date of service to prepare my defence.

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG.

 

Well, you've got some catching up to do as you know, but you have time. You have 19 days from the date on the claim form to acknowledge service [AoS]. Then another two weeks after that for your defence, but follow the instructions in the sticky link for the AoS.

 

Please let us have the information requested in the forum sticky so we can start advising you. We may need other information later.

 

 

Best, HB

[redeye]

Thanks for the quick reply!

 

Issued by:  CCBC, Northampton NN1

Claimant: Parking Eye Ltd

Solicitors: Not stated, signed by Jayne Leonard, Claimant's Legal Rep

Date of Issue: 07 Feb 2022

Date for AoS: ???

Date to submit defence: 11/03/22

 

Particulars of Claim

1.Claim for monies outstanding from the Defendant in relation to a Parking Charge (ref XXXXX) issued on 28/09/2021. 

 

2.The signage clearly displayed throughout Welcome Break Birchanger Green-Bishops Stortford, M11 jct 8, Old Dunmow Road, Bishops Stortford, Hertfordshire, CM23 states that this is private land, managed by ParkingEye Ltd, and that it is subject to terms and conditions, including the payment of parking tariffs, by which those who park agreed to be bound (the contract).

 

3.ParkingEye's ANPR system captured vehicle XXXXXXX entering and leaving the site on 23/09/2021, and parking without a valid paid parking ticket, and parking tariffs apply after a free stay period. 

 

4.Pursuant to Sch4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, notice has been given to the registered keeper, making them liable for the Parking Charge payable upon breach.

 

Amount Claimed: £100

Court Fee: £35

Legal rep costs: £50

Total Amount: £185

 

What next?

Can I now submit the Acknowledgement of Service confirming I intend to defend all the claim, but without actually submitting the defence as yet?

 

Just worried about missing deadlines.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[redeye]

Sorry Honeybee, you've already told me how to work out the dates, looking at calendar now! So I can definitely put in the AoS without putting in my defence?  If so I will do it tonight.

[honeybee13]

Yes, you do the AoS first and then we help you to work out what to put in your defence, which will be a few short paragraphs.

 

HB

[redeye]

Thanks. I'll confirm when I've submitted and have confirmation of receipt. 

Really very grateful for this site, had a very good result years ago over debt collectors so it's good to see you're still going. 

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform

.

register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.

Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...

You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 

then log in to the MCOL Website

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

………….
 

 

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

Once you've done the above could you please answer the following questions and post up any PCN that you have also received. This will help us see how to get you off paying them.

 

What would also help is to see pictures of the signage in the car park if possible.

[redeye]

Good afternoon!

 

I've put in the AoS and received/saved confirmation from MCOL.

Will do the CPR31:14 next. Thank you DX.

 

looking for info: will complete all the questionnaires asap and post. Might not be able to do until tomorrow though. I haven't got any pictures of the signage, I didn't actually see it.  It's quite a long way from me, will I need to go and take pics for my defence?

 

Thanks again for the help.

[lookinforinfo]

Maybe forget about the signage then. Though it is a shame as sometimes these crooks fall down on their signage which is enough for judges to throw out the case.

But there are other reasons that you can win regardless and among those are the PCNs you receive though PE are usually pretty good on those.

[redeye]

Good afternoon.

 

PCN dated: 28/09/2021

PCN Reminder: 07/10/2021

NTK dated: 01/11/2021

 

Time in car park: 13 hours 14 minutes

Arrival time: 22/09/2021 21:30:06

Departure time: 23/09/2021

 

I was driving my disabled wife back to London from Suffolk when she was taken ill (she was undergoing hospital treatment at the time) and we needed to stop. 

 

I followed the signs for longer vehicles as our old van doesn't fit in a car bay. 

 

I didn't see any signs or payment machines and parked up with her disabled badge in the window. 

 

It was dark and poorly lit when we arrived and there was only one other vehicle there. I wasn't aware we were supposed to pay. 

 

In the morning in the daylight I didn't see any signs or payment points or obviously I would have paid whatever small charge it was. 

 

Any help much appreciated.

Edited February 22, 2022 by dx100uk
Spacing

[dx100uk]

This wasn't a windscreen ticket was it?

 

The PCN or ntk has two pictures of entry and exit? With times? Or is it pictures taken by a parking warden?

[redeye]

This was ANPR. Do you want me to post a copy showing the pictures? 

[dx100uk]

All docs in/out to one mass pdf please.

 

Then they are stuffed, the ntk is outside of 14days 

 

Dx

 

 

 

 

[redeye]

Good evening, combined pdf attached. Have I missed a document? As mentioned I was hoping this would all go away and was otherwise occupied with hospital etc. Thanks again for your help. 

PE PCN.pdf

[FTMDave]

9 hours ago, dx100uk said:

Then they are stuffed, the ntk is outside of 14days

It was sent after five days, the OP has got the terminology mixed up.

[redeye]

Woops. Anything I can do? 

[FTMDave]

Yes, loads.

 

I know this is a service station, so you can't really go back, but it's possible to look at these places with Google Maps.  See if you can get screenshots of the signage, or lack of.  You mention you saw no signs.

 

Even if there were signs, if they weren't illuminated then they might as well not have been there in the dark.

 

Plus see what the signs say about payment.  A lot of the time the daft gets say you have to pay in a shop for example which is closed, anything to make it as difficult as possible to pay so they can issue their invoices. 

[redeye]

Thanks FTMDave will check out Google maps tomorrow. 

[lookinforinfo]

PE are usually pretty good with getting their PCNs PoFA compliant.

 

The bottom of the first PCN [that's the one dated 28/10/22 .

 

The Reminder is a bit strange as it appears to be issued 7/10/22 not 7/11/22 though I see you have posted it as November.

 

The NTK dated 28/10/22 has had the bottom part of it missed off and the back of the PCN has not been included.

 

Part of the missing bit is sometimes when the parking crooks fail so it could be a help if you  would post it up for us please.

Edited February 23, 2022 by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx

[redeye]

Thanks FTMDave

 

have had great success on Google, got pics showing every sign on the way in, only one mentions pay parking and got a great pic showing it is unlit and how far apart the street lights are.

 

Also got pic of the view from parking space showing very poor lighting, no signage and no pay machines.

 

Shall I post these up?

Obviously they are in daylight and I arrived in the dark.

 

lookingfor info I'm scanning the back of the docs and will post shortly.

 

The three documents I have posted are dated:

 

Parking Charge Notice : Date of Event: 23/09/2021 - Date issued 28/09/2021 - Date: 28/09/2021

 

Parking Charge Notice Reminder: Date of Event:23/09/2021 - Date Issued: 28/09/2021 - Date: 07/10/2021

 

Letter which I thought  was NTK - Dated 01 November 2021

 

Not great at the scanning but this starts

:"We are writing to inform you that the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act in respect of keeper liability have now been satisfied and as 29 days have passed from the date notice of the Parking Charge was given, Parkingeye now has the right to recover any unpaid part of the Parking Charge from you, the registered keeper." 

 

On the back page it concludes: "The registered keeper details have been provided by the DVLA as this vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of a private car park ... etc." Is this not a Notice to Keeper?

 

 

[FTMDave]

NTK and PCN are alternate names for their original invoice sent on 28/09/2021.

 

Great work with the signs - well done.

 

 

[redeye]

Good afternoon. Here is my suggested Defence. Any help much appreciated.

 

[removed - dx] The claim relates to an alleged breach of contract, which is denied. It is further denied that there was any agreement to pay the Claimant a £100 parking charge as the Defendant had no knowledge of such parking charge.

 

Defendant submits that there was inadequate signage to form a contract and attaches 12 photographs showing signage in order from entering the services to the car park.  Photos are taken in daylight, however Defendant arrived in darkness. Only one sign refers to paid parking and is not lit and very easy to miss at night. Photo XX shows how far this sign is from street lighting and its confusing positioning.

 

On arrival at the car parking area there are no barriers or payment machines to show that it is a paid car park. Subsequent telephone enquiries reveal that parking can be paid at W H Smith inside the services, however there is no signage visible in the car park stating this. 

 

The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices in these circumstances, and to pursue payment in the court in their own name. 

 

[dx100uk]

no!!

 

i have removed a very important bit!! dont ever say that!!

 

you do not play any cards 

 

go back to the sticky giving the details of the claim we wanted that you filled out

 

scroll further down.

 

and at 2 you'll see the kind of bland generic defence to file

[redeye]

Thank you DX. Suggested defence:

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1.  The Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant.

 

3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 

 

4.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

 

5.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 

 

6.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

Do I not need to mention the poor signage/lighting and lack of payment machines?