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@Hermesparcels - via packlink - sold 2x Macbook Pro's via Ebay - one replaced by Piano books - the other by a coffee cup - upon receipt at buyers!!


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Hi All,

 

First of all I wanted to thank you for the advice and support you give on this site. I had read through a couple of cases and beginning to have hope again that there is a chance to recover what I have lost recently. And so, I wanted to get it out here first since I am probably only at the beginning of a very lengthy and time consuming process.

 

Basically, I had 2x MacBook Pro’s stolen only a few days apart during shipping with Packlink / Hermes in the following ways:

 

Item 01:

 

  • I sold a 15” MacBook Pro with original packaging and power adapter for £400 on eBay and posted it to the buyer using Packlink/Hermes
  • It was packaged in a sturdy 42 x 32 x 15cm parcel, weighting 3.65kg, with fragile-tape wrapped tightly around the center of the parcel and the shipping label attached with brown packaging tape thereafter
  • I dispatched it at Hermes Collection Point: Tesco Express, 4-6 Station Parade, TW9 3PZ, Richmond Upon Thames on Sunday, Jan 30 at 14:20
  • When the buyer received it on Wednesday, Feb 02, he provided photos and reported that the parcel was battered, looked loosely repackaged and had a bunch of piano books inside, which are much lighter than the Mac would have been
  • He has since returned the parcel to me and I also noticed an additional layer of Fragile Tape wrapped around the back of the parcel and below the brown tape he used to close it
  • I have reported this theft with Action Fraud, registered the serial number & Mac specifics with Immobilise.com and refunded the buyer as instructed by eBay
  • I have then opened a claim with Packlink, who have begun an investigation and asked me to send them a signed DOR (letter of denial of receipt) by the buyer, which he was happy to provide
  • Currently awaiting further response from them..

 

Item 02:

 

  • While the first Mac was still in transit (and I didn’t know what happened to it yet) I sold another 13” MacBook Pro with original packaging and power adapter for £470 on eBay and shipped it in the same way using Packlink/Hermes
  • It was again packaged like the first one using a sturdy 36 x 28 x 13cm parcel , with fragile tape, weighting 2.5kg and dropped off at the same location on Tuesday, Feb 01 at 08:06 am
  • After the buyer received it on Thursday, Feb 03, he reported that there was no Mac but a coffee cup inside
  • Furthermore the delivery picture provided by Hermes tracking, was showing additional fragile-tape wrapped around the sides & back of the parcel and on top of the brown tape I used to attach the shipping label in the end
  • As before I have reported this to Action Fraud, registered the Mac as stolen on Immobilise.com, opened a claim with Packlink and currently awaiting their response

 

To be honest, I have used Hermes in the past without problems and thinking that a delivery company would open perfectly sealed and secure parcels and replacing its contents was just crazy to believe. However, I am determined to do whatever it takes to recover the value of those items and hoping for your guidance in the absurdity that is surely about to come along my way..

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  • dx100uk changed the title to @Hermesparcels - via packlink - sold 2x Macbook Pro's via Ebay - one replaced by Piano books - the other by a coffee cup - upon receipt at buyers!!

In Hermes defence,  it's probably not fair to say that the company has opened your parcels and stolen the contents. It has been done by one of their employees or contractors. Hermes liability here is in failing to check these things and to implement systems would prevent it happening and also to vet the people who work for them.

You say that you have read through a couple of the cases on this sub- forum. You will need to read more than that and to understand the arguments that are going to come your way.

  • The items are on their prohibited items list and therefore any small payment which is made is made as a gesture of goodwill.
  • You did not insure the items.


You will then want to sue but Packlink is out of the jurisdiction and so you will have to sue Hermes.

  • Hermes will try to knock it back and say that you had no contract with them and that you should sue Packlink.


We will recommend that you start suing Hermes almost immediately. I don't see any point in hanging around with these people any more.

However I suggest that you read a good dozen or so of the stories and may be more to understand the responses to the arguments which I have set out above.

Come back here when you think you're comfortable with it.

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Hi @BankFodder, thank you for the advice so far. Packlink has now processed one of my items and their claims department told me that I will receive a “Goods Compensation” of £25 + refund of the postage fee. Today, I chased for a response to my claim for the other item (which was submitted at the same time, but being processed by another agent who hasn’t responded yet) and was told that I will receive an update on Monday.

 

In the meantime, I am starting my claim process with Hermes and have just drafted the following email to them:

 

Quote

Dear Hermes Team,

 

I have recently lost two items using your delivery service with the following particulars:

 

Item 1:

  • I sold a 15” MacBook Pro (Serial Number: C02LP3QDFD59) with original packaging and power adapter for £400 on eBay and posted it to the buyer using Packlink/Hermes (tracking# H0067A0049648643)
  • The parcel was dropped at Hermes Collection Point: Tesco Express, 4-6 Station Parade, TW9 3PZ, Richmond Upon Thames on Sunday, Jan 30 at 14:20 and it was delivered to the buyer on Wednesday, Feb 02
  • Between these times and places it was tampered with and the item I posted was stolen and replaced with worthless piano books, which is what was delivered to the buyer
  • I have reported this theft to the police, crime ref number: NFRC220205005799
  • On Feb 07th, I opened a claim with Packlink and after completing an investigation, their claims department informed me that I will receive a “Goods Compensation” of £25.00 + “Postage cost refund” of £5.79

 

Item 2:

  • I sold a 13” MacBook Pro (Serial Number: C02VP01UHV2F) with original packaging and power adapter for £470 on eBay and posted it to the buyer using Packlink/Hermes (tracking# H0067A0049981031)
  • The parcel was dropped at the same Hermes Collection Point: Tesco Express, 4-6 Station Parade, TW9 3PZ, Richmond Upon Thames on Tuesday, Feb 01 at 08:06 am and it was delivered to the buyer on Thursday, Feb 03
  • Between these times and places it was tampered with and the item I posted was stolen and replaced with a worthless coffee cup, which is what was delivered to the buyer
  • I have reported this theft to the police, crime ref number: NFRC220205005567
  • On Feb 07th, I opened a claim with Packlink which is currently being processed

I am contacting you as I do not find the outcome of this settlement to be satisfactory - the insurance that you offer against your company’s negligence and failure to deliver my parcels is an unfair term under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and therefore unenforceable.

 

I am requesting a full refund of the price of item 1 (£400) + delivery fee (£5.79) and item 2 (£470) + delivery fee (£5.79), totalling £850.79 (£400 + £5.79 + £470 + £5.79 - £30.79 paid by Packlink).

 

Best regards,

As I understand, the next step will be to send them a Letter of Claim / Particulars of Claim, if I do not receive a satisfactory answer within 10 days?

 

Many Thanks!

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Please stand by for a reply tomorrow

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Ok, so I just got the following reply from Hermes:

Quote
Hi xxx,
 
Thank you for getting in touch with your enquiry regarding your parcels H0067A0049648643 and H0067A0049981031.
 
I’m truly so sorry to hear that these parcels did not arrive with your recipient with the original contents in them, and I can appreciate how disappointing this was for you and your recipient.
 
I am so sorry that you have not received full compensation for these items from Packlink, and I know this must be very frustrating especially due to the high value of the items.
 
Unfortunately, Hermes would be unable to issue compensation for these missing items as per your request. Due to contractual reasons, Hermes can only explore the possibility of compensation with the party who contracted us with the safe delivery of your parcel.
 
Following the Consumer Rights Act 2015, as you purchased the delivery label from Packlink it is these with who you entered a purchase agreement with and who need to arrange a refund or replacement for the lost item. Packlink will contact us directly to process a claim by following the claims procedure that they already have in place with Hermes.
 
Again I sincerely apologise for this outcome and I kindly ask that you contact Packlink for further assitance.
 
If you need anything in the future, please contact your Hermes Customer Service Team and we’ll be happy to help.
 
Kind regards,
Erin 2751
 
Hermes Customer Services

 

I guess the next step is to respond with a letter of claim and mention that according to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 I enjoy all the rights of a direct contracting party and propose to sue them in the County Court to recover all lost money incl. court fees, correct?

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Post a draft of your letter here

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I found some very useful letter of claim examples here on the forum and tweaked one of them to apply to my case:

 

Quote

Dear XXX

 

Reference number H0067A0049648643 and H0067A0049981031 – Letter of Claim.

 

Thank you for your letter of the XXX date.

 

It is indeed very frustrating since I You have lost two high value items within a couple of days and while they have been in your company's care.

 

You mentioned that my purchase agreement is with Packlink only however, I am sure that you know, under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999, I enjoy all the rights that a direct contracting party has and it is on this basis that I'm proposing to sue you for the declared value of the item plus costs.

 

If I do not have reimbursement in full within 14 days then I shall begin a claim in the County Court to recover all my money plus the court fees and without any further notice.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Please let me know if you would change / add anything or if its good to go.

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I don't know where you get all this – "indeed it's frustrating" – rubbish.

I put in a couple of edits in red including correcting your spelling.

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Hi, so I have send the revised letter of claim to Hermes and got the following reply:

 

Quote

Hi xxx,
 

Thank you for getting in touch with your enquiry regarding your parcels H0067A0049648643 and H0067A0049981031. 
 
I’m sorry to hear that you have experienced a problem with this delivery and I can appreciate how frustrating this situation must be for you and your recipient.
 
I can see that you purchased the shipping label for this parcel via Packlink. While your parcel was sent using the Hermes network, Packlink are regarded as the carrier in this situation as they provided you with the shipping label. This means that any claims for parcels which have become lost, damaged or delivered late will need to go directly to them so they can discuss the appropriate next steps with you. I have added a useful link below to assist you:
 
Packlink Help Centre: 
https://support.packlink.com/hc/en-gb
 
If you need anything in the future, please contact your Hermes Customer Service Team and we’ll be happy to help.
 
Kind regards,

 
Hermes Customer Services

 

It seems like they either completely disregard what I have written or didn't even bother to read the letter of claim properly... I guess at this point I can go ahead and issue the claim or would you respond anything to that?

 

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Don't respond .

Wait for the 14 days to expire and then issue the claim.

Make sure you have read the stories on this sub forum.

 

 

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let's see the claim form before you issue

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok, I have drafted the particulars of claim form below:

 

Quote

The claimant used the defendant courier company which agreed to send a 15” MacBook Pro (Serial Number: C02LP3QDFD59) - Reference number H0067A0049648643 as well as a 13” MacBook Pro (Serial Number: C02VP01UHV2F) - Reference number H0067A0049981031, to a UK address. The defendant breached the contract by losing both items and refuses to compensate the claimant on the basis that the claimant purchased its shipping labels via another party. By way of third party rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 the defendant bears equal contractual responsibility and the claimant is therefore suing the defendant courier company for his lost value.

 

The value of both items sent was £870.00 total. The delivery fee for both items was £11.58 total.

 

The claimant claims full reimbursement of £850.79 (item value plus delivery fee less £30.79 already received) plus interest pursuant to section 69, County Courts Act 1984.

 

Please let me know if you would change anything before issuing.

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First of all, when they sent to different UK addresses?

Are dealing with two contracts here.

 

Secondly, I think you are putting in far too much detail. You shouldn't give them any clues.

 

It's quite sufficient to say that they agreed to deliver the item to a UK address and failed to do so and that they refuse to reimburse you.

Why bother to give them cues for their defence – or to understand what issues to avoid

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Posted (edited)

I see, yes they have been two separate deliveries to different UK addresses but are you suggesting to issue two individual court claims? In my communication with Hermes, I have mentioned both of them in one email and wanted to do the same here to avoid having to pay twice for issuing a claim to the county court.

 

Noted on simplifying the particulars of claim.

Edited by sosei1010
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But as you are going to win on both claims, you are going to lose any money whether you sue on one claim or two claims.

It's up to you.

Please will you post up your new draft – and by the way you have now allowed your 14 day letter of claim to expire and yet you have an issue your claim.

Why weren't you prepared to click off as soon as the deadline expired?

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I will issue it right away, please find new draft below:

 

Quote

The claimant used the defendant courier company which agreed to send a 15” MacBook Pro (Serial Number: C02LP3QDFD59) - Reference number H0067A0049648643 as well as a 13” MacBook Pro (Serial Number: C02VP01UHV2F) - Reference number H0067A0049981031, to two UK addresses respectively. The defendant breached the contract by losing both items and refuses to compensate the claimant.

 

The value of both items sent was £870.00 total. The delivery fee for both items was £11.58 total.

 

The claimant claims full reimbursement of £850.79 (item value plus delivery fee less £30.79 already received) plus interest pursuant to section 69, County Courts Act 1984.

 

Let me know if this version is good to go.

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First of all, you have agreed that you are suing on two contracts and although it's only a technicality, you are saying that they breach the contract (singular).

You should be paying attention to these kind of details. Obviously it's clear what you mean – but it shows a sloppy attitude.

More importantly, you have agreed that you are suing on two contracts but you haven't detailed the value of each one. You are simply using the total of both of them.

Once again, I'm going to say – not only for you but others who visit this thread that I don't understand why this wasn't all prepared before and you are only now starting to put it together after the expiry of your 14 day deadline.
 

If you think that this helps your credibility in the eyes of Hermes – then Big Fail.

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Noted, revised version below:

Quote

The claimant used the defendant courier company which agreed to send a 15” MacBook Pro (Serial Number: C02LP3QDFD59) - Reference number H0067A0049648643 as well as a 13” MacBook Pro (Serial Number: C02VP01UHV2F) - Reference number H0067A0049981031, to two UK addresses respectively. The defendant breached both contracts by losing the two items and refuses to compensate the claimant.

 

The value of the 15” MacBook Pro was £400 plus a delivery fee of £5.79. The value of the 13” MacBook Pro was £470 plus a delivery fee of £5.79.

 

The claimant claims full reimbursement of £850.79 (value of both items, plus delivery fees, less £30.79 already received) plus interest pursuant to section 69, County Courts Act 1984.

 

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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

Hi, quick update, today I have got a response, after EVRi requested an extension, from April 11th to April 25th, to respond to my claim. 

 

Response below:

 

Quote

Defendant’s response I dispute all the claim

 

Why they dispute the claim
2.1. 1. If any part of the Particulars of Claim are not expressly admitted or denied below, such parts are denied by the Defendant entirely.

 

2.2. 2. The Defendant serves this Defence subject to the following objection to the manner in which this claim is brought. The Particulars of Claim fail to provide details about any contractual relationship which is alleged to exist between the Claimant and the Defendant.

 

2.3. Background

 

2.4. 3. The Defendant is and was at all material times a company limited by shares in the business of providing delivery services on a business to business, business to consumer and consumer to consumer basis.

 

2.5. 4. In addition to providing delivery service to its own customers, the Defendant also works as a subcontractor to provide delivery services to customers of PACKLINK Shipping S.L (“Packlink”) who are a company registered in, Spain with the number CIF B83357863 whose registered address is Calle Amaltea, 9 28045 Madrid pursuant to a pre-existing commercial agreement to carry out delivery services.

 

2.6. 5. Packlink provides delivery services to users of the online auction site /retail site ‘eBay.co.uk’. eBay.co.uk users can opt to use the Defendant’s delivery services via Packlink. This means that the Defendant does not have any contractual relationship with Packlink ‘s customers. They, as is the case with the Claimant, contract solely with Packlink.

 

2.7. 6. As there is no contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, the Defendant only has limited tracking information about the Parcels.


2.8. 7. The tracking information shows that on or around 30 January 2022 and 31 January 2022, the Claimant’s Parcels entered the Defendant’s delivery network after the Claimant sent the Parcels via one of the Defendant’s ParcelShops.


2.9. 8. The tracking information indicates that the Parcels were delivered on 2 January 2022 to a secure delivery address. However the Claimant states the Parcels had been tampered with and the items replaced.

 

2.10. The Claim Value

 

2.11. 9. The Claimant seeks to recover £958.92.

 

2.12. 10. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the value of the claim.

 

2.13. The Defence

 

2.14. 11. The Defendant denies that it is liable to pay the Claimant the damages claimed for breach of contract and/or negligence.

 

2.15. 12. This Defence is a response to the Particulars of Claim which are set out in the’Reasons for claim’ on page 2 of the claim form.

 

2.16. Claim FormParticulars of Claim

 

2.17. 13. The first sentence of the Particulars of Claim is admitted insofar as the Claimant entered into a Contract with Packlink.

 

2.18. 14. The second sentence of the Particulars of Claim is denied insofar as the Parcels were delivered as shown on the Defendants tracking system.

 

2.19. 15. The third and fourth sentences of the Particulars of Claim are neither admitted nor denied and the Claimant is put to strict proof. The Claimant has not provided the Defendant with proof of value or proof of delivery expenses.

 

2.20. No contractual relationship

 

2.21. 16. There is no contract between the Claimant and the Defendant.

 

2.22. 17. The Claimant entered into a contract with Packlink.

 

2.23. 18. This was made very clear during the order process. Claim number: XXXXXXXX

 

2.24. 19. The Claimant should desist with this claim and contact Packlink.

 

2.25. Claim for compensation

 

2.26. 20. The Claimant claims £958.92.

 

2.27. As explained above, it is denied that the Defendant owes the Claimant £958.92.

 

I have rejected their response and accepted phone mediation, which should be arranged within 28 days. It seems their main defence is, that the responsibility is with Packlink, but I will do some further reading through other stories to prepare and get back if anything is unclear.

 

 

 

 

Edited by sosei1010
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  • 2 weeks later...

Quick question, I have got a mediation appointment for Tuesday next week but won’t be able to make it due to recent work commitments. I have requested to change the date but because of current high demand for mediation they won’t be able to change it and said that the case would be transferred to a court hearing if I wish to cancel this appointment. Does it have any disadvantages for me to go straight to court and would you recommend to arrange for a third party to mediate on my behalf in this case?

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Obviously it's not a good idea to have indicated that you are prepared to accept mediation and then cancel the appointment at short notice.

You are claiming quite a lot of money and presumably this was going to be done on a mobile phone – and is there really no possibility that you can reserve half an hour to have an exchange of phone calls?

It won't help your case to have missed it and I suppose they will try to leverage this if it goes to court.

If you do decide to cancel then I would suggest that you give as your reason not only has an urgent commitment arisen, but you also consider that as their sole grounds are challenging your third-party rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act, that you consider that there are no other issues and therefore there is no room for compromise so that in any event the mediation would be a wasted exercise.

In terms of somebody else doing it for you I doubt whether that would be permitted and frankly it wouldn't be a good idea in any event

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Makes sense, I have responded and offered them a 1hour slot within the 2hour window that they suggested. Let’s see if it works for them.

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