Smart ANPR PCN - Oakland Quay London E14

[northmonk]

Hi folks

 

, this is the second charge I'm currently dealing with then as this one arrived yesterday relating to a charge back on the 16th December on private land in London E14.

 

Also recently received a 24 mph speeding fine from the Met for which I'm having to attend a speed awareness workshop now, my 5th so far - the joys of driving for a living!

 

Please advise, I'll make another donation for the continuing help

 

Kind regards

 

smart parking pcn letter (2).pdf

Edited January 30 by dx100uk
left reg plate in original

[FTMDave]

You know the drill.  Please complete this -

 

[northmonk]

 

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

(must be received within 14 days from the Incident)

 

Please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement

16/12/2021 

 

Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

26/01/2022 making it well outside the 14 day rule
 

[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

please do not put JPG Picture files into your post

 

3 Date received

28/01/2022
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

Not sure going to post up a pdf zoomed in of tiny writing that could relate to this
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

2 very dark pictures
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

NO
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company?

Smart Parking, Birmingham

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Oakland Quay, London E14 9RH
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

I cannot see any reference to which body they belong, it merely mentions POPLA if I they reject my appeal which appears has to be done to them directly

 

PCN.pdf

[FTMDave]

Superb - as usual they've been too stupid to establish keeper liability.

 

You know the bit about ignoring them unless/until they send a Letter of Claim.

 

A couple of questions.  What do they reckon you did wrong?  They haven't bothered to state this in their tripe, it's all "either you did this or you did that".

 

Am i right that this is your usual hire vehicle and the fleecers will have written to the hire company who must then have given them your details?

 

 

[northmonk]

Ok noted about the LBC.

 

I reckon they scan cars using ANPR and if you're not in their database of registered residents in this area, as its mostly residential flats in London docklands area here, they automatically fire out a PCN if you enter etc.

 

No it states that they obtained the info directly from DVLA which could put them in GDPR violation, this one came direct to me, not via my company

 

regards

[dx100uk]

Pretty shore (haha). Youll find that land is still owned by the port of london authority. Have a check on .gov.uk land registry site so a ppc cant enforce any byelaws that might exist . Might not now but i had friends that lived there and the lease/ rent was paid to pla.

 

just musing.

 

Dx

[northmonk]

Couldn't find anything about PLA still owning the land, money talks in London so could've sold it onto private developers

[lookinforinfo]

Good spot Northmonk about the PCN not being sent via the DVLA providing of course that they did not write to the hirer first. That may account for your NTK being late. Might be an idea to confirm.

Not sure what happened with the Ntk that you provided-it didn't come out properly for some reason. Could you please post it up again

[dx100uk]

pdf in post 1 done 

next time scan the whole of bothsides of any letter.

the devil is in the detail and the layout.

 

dx

 

[northmonk]

Ok noted

[northmonk]

Ok re-upped the NTK pdf here, both sides in full this time.

 

You mean check with my company to see if they went to them first?

 

Regards

 

full PCN.pdf

Edited January 31 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[FTMDave]

Yes, the fact it's a hire vehicle complicates life legally.  Find out if the fleecers sent the PCN to the hire company first.

[lookinforinfo]

Had Smart sent an NTK to the car hire company then Smart should have sent a Notice to Hirer to you Northmonk giving you 21 days to respond. It would seem then fairly unlikely that Smart sent an NTK to the car hirer.

 

By not using  the DVLA Smart have forfeited being able to transfer the liability to the keeper. But they had lost that anyway by taking too long to send the NTK. Do your company allow other people beside you to drive the car?

 

[northmonk]

Ok I'll do that today

 

No it's just myself that drives the car. I'll get onto them and let you know if they contacted them first 

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

[northmonk]

Do you think its worth a punt trying an appeal to this firm on the basis that I was doing a pickup at the time (I wasn't). It would look like the attached pdf which is a cover letter from my company, the job sheet that I knocked up that looks like a real one and a cover letter from myself,

 

thoughts?

CAG.pdf

[dx100uk]

even if it were true thats not a reason to cancel it. and as its not true, a foolish idea 

[FTMDave]

PPCs don't accept appeals.  If you had absolute proof that the taxi was scrapped 20 years ago and that you were in prison in Australia at the time of the incident, they would still decide you were liable.  That's how they make their money.

 

Just ignore Smart unless they send a Letter Before Claim.

 

You do need to sort out what's happening with the hire company though.  If they are receiving these letters and shopping you to the PPCs, they should be telling you.  Having the hire company involved messes up the whole legality of the PPC's letters and their timescales. 

[northmonk]

Lol, ok noted thanks fellas

[northmonk]

Confirmed PCN's sent via post ALWAYS go to the company before the driver. They received it on 14/01/22

[FTMDave]

So outside the 14 days.

 

I'm not sure about the POFA legality of the new PCN which then went to you.  I'll have to look it up & check.

 

Why are the hire company not informing you automatically of these PCNs?  They are right to tell the PPC you are the driver, but they should at least inform you.

[FTMDave]

Hire cars are out of the ordinary here and I confess I'm out of my depth.  I know we have some very knowledgeable posters who know the intricacies of POFA, so some questions for the experts.

 

1.  The PPC sends a PCN to the care hire company within the 14 days and the hire company name the driver.  The PPC issues a new PCN to the driver.  But now the 14 days have passed.  Presumably the PPC are in the right re POFA and the 14 days.  Is that right?

 

2.  The PPC sends a PCN to the hire car company after the 14 days and the hire company name the driver.  The PPC issues a new PCN to the driver.  Presumably the PPC are in the wrong re POFA and the 14 days as they got it all wrong in the first place.  Is that right?

 

3.  Is all the POFA-keeper-liability stuff irrelevant if the car hire company name the driver and only that one driver (as it is a taxi) is insured to drive the vehicle? 

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

.God knows why they are called Smart Parking. The PCN  they sent 16/01/22  is totally wrong. They should have sent a Notice to Hirer containing a copy of the terms that you signed with the Hire Company as proof they you are the person they are pursuing as well as a copy of the NTK they sent to the Hire Company. 

 

Then they should offer you a discount and after 21  days [not the 28 they stated] they will have the right to pursue you in Court if you have not paid.  PoFA 2012 Schedule 4  [14] [1-5].

 

So no points to Smart parking. Of course Smart now know that you were the driver and you have lost the protection of PoFA which is the problem hirers have when falling foul of the parking crooks. 

 

We will have to look at the contract for example and see their photos etc.

 

[FTMDave]

That's really interesting LFI.  I confess I knew nothing about a Notice to Hirer but have now had a look at the POFA sections you mention.

[northmonk]

latest correspondence from Smart just arrived, they sound quite determined to pursue the charge and go to court if necessary. Could be all just bluster of course, anything to recommend or just ignore and await LBC?

 

Regards

Smart.pdf

[FTMDave]

Ignore it, Debt Recovery Plus can do nothing as it's not their debt.