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    • I’m sure Nature is grateful for you flagging it as needing more examination !   Until then, what is your point about older people and anti-inflammatory medicines? or are you just quoting learned articles at random in the hope that occasionally you’ll either “get lucky” with a comment, or that you’ll gull someone into thinking you actually understand the cytokine / interleukin / inflammasome pathways….. The utility of steroids (dexamethasone) for in-patients needing oxygen has been demonstrated by the RECOVERY trial. I can’t see where this has been analysed on a sub-group basis for older people on anti-inflammatory meds : are you suggesting the trial has “missed a trick”?   What is your feeling on which interleukin needs to be targeted? And should it be upregulated or downregulated?   More to the point (since I don’t expect an answer that shows any degree of understanding, if you answer at all) :   What is your point, rather than just posting journal articles at random!
    • I know what you are saying but the court route so far has almost doubled the claim 
    • Here's my first draft! Let me know what you think so far...cheers!   On behalf of the defendant Statement no.1 20/05/2022   In The County Court At Manchester   Claim Number   HIGHVIEW PARKING LIMITED VS    Witness Statement   I am the defendant in this case. The facts and matters set out in this statement come from my personal knowledge and I believe them to be true.   I was not able to reply to the court documents as I was no longer at the service address at the time the court papers were served. I moved out of the address on the 30th of September 2021   September 31st 2021 - I moved out of my address November 15th 2021 - I left the UK November 25th 2021 - I was served court papers at an address I was no longer living at December 17th 2021 - Judgement by default was issued against me April 1st 2022 - I realised I had a CCJ against me on my credit file and contacted the court for more information April 1st 2022 - I immediately sent the court a N244 request to have the judgement set aside   I received no pre court action dated prior to this date    The Claimant's Witness Statement point 20g about prompt action is incorrect. As soon as I realised I had a CCJ on the 1st of April I applied to have the judgement set aside.   ######### Draft order ######   Between   Claimant xxxxxxxx -and-Defendant xxxxxxx       Draft Order   It is respectfully requested that the Judgement dated xxxxxx claim number xxxxxxxx issued under Part 12 CPR be set aside pursuant to CPR 13.3. a/b.   It is Ordered   The Claim be set aside and the defendant be allowed to defend the claim   Signed    Dated.     DRAFT DEFENCE      (1) the Claimant is suing the wrong person, the Claimant should be suing the driver of the vehicle and has not established keeper liability under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012;  a Notice to Driver should have been delivered within 14 days if the claimant wishes to rely on Keeper liability. Claimant's Witness Statement exhibit 3 clearly shows that their Charge Notice was issued on the 01/09/2017, 27 days after the alleged contravention. DCBL still have no idea whether they are pursuing the keeper or the driver and are disregarding Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 in order to try their luck in the hopes of dishonest financial gain.    The claimant is put to strict proof that it was indeed the defendant who was driving the car at the time.      (2) Locus Standi - the Claimant is not the landowner and I do not believe they have the authority to bring this claim.  A letter - not even from the landowner - saying there is an agreement is not the same as producing an agreement (Claimant's Witness Statement exhibit 1);   The claimant is put to strict proof that they have the consent of the land owner and is asked to produce the actual agreement between themselves and the landowner.      (3) the convoluted "free parking voucher" scheme is an unfair term under the Consumer Rights Act 2019;      (4) I do not believe the Claimant has obtained planning permission for their signs which is a criminal offence and makes it impossible to have formed a contract with the driver;   The claimant is put to strict proof that they have the correct permissions from Manchester Council in order to operate the site as a parking business.      (5) The Claimant is claiming the debt, legal costs and an extra invented sum as an attempt at double recovery which invalidates the whole claim. Their action is expressly forbidden under the Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019 and ensuing government Code of Practice, as well as previous legislation.    (6) Both the BPA and the IPC do not not have compliant Codes of Conduct. They are in breach of the Law in two ways at least which has been confirmed by the new Private Parking Code of Practice introduced by the Government earlier this year which clarifies the position that has always existed on the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 but ignored by most parking companies as well as the BPA and IPC.    (7) Escalation of costs Private Parking Code of Practice s9 states in the most recent publication ‘Private parking charges, discount rates, debt collection fees and appeals charter: further technical consultation’. 36. To reduce harm to motorists, we propose to cap the level of debt recovery fees at the existing industry level £70. In setting this cap, we have taken into consideration the deterrent effect, the amount of court fees and the costs to operators of enforcing parking charges. We will keep the cap under review and will take these factors into consideration when setting it in future.   The parking operator must not levy additional costs over and above the level of a parking charge or parking tariff as originally issued. The claimants WS Exhibit 3 demonstrates the unlawful progression of a £55 charge becoming £135, and escalating to £165 in Exhibit 5, way in excess of what code of practice dictates.   Even back in 2017 the charges were unlawful and on that basis the PCN should have been cancelled as an abuse of process.   Charging of extra debt collection/ administrative costs etc over and above £100. This has always been the case . Schedule 4 s4[5] states "(5)The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 8(2)(c) or (d) or, as the case may be, 9(2)(d) (less any payments towards the unpaid parking charges which are received after the time so specified).   (8) Most parking companies are breaking the Law by using ANPR cameras that records the entrance and leaving of the car as the "period of Parking" on their Notice to Keeper which is necessary to comply with PoFA 2012. It is obvious that a car is not parked as it is driving within the car looking for a space, then parking in it and then leaving the car park should be not included in the ANPR times. In addition if there are disabled people in the car or children in car seats this can all add to the time. So given that there is a minimum of 10 minutes "consideration time" it is more than probable that the parking period was complied with and that the case should never have been taken to Court. It also means that the keeper's GDPR was breached.
    • cant ever see the point in entering into pointless letter tennis.
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JCI/BW Claimform - old Omni Capital Retail Finance Loan for Training program but provider went bust


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Hello again

I have a new situation that has completely thrown me.

 

JC Aquisitions bought a disputed debt for a fixed term loan. The Loan was to pay for training that never happened as the training provider went into liquidation before delivering anything; the loan was paid directly to the training provider.

 

When the lender began chasing for their money it was disputed (as no goods/services had been provided) and a complaint filed- but they didn't uphold it.

 

Move on 6 months and JC Aquisitions come on the scene and are now pursuing this through the small claims route.

 

My question is when they bought the debt (for pennies on the pound) as well as getting the "Rights and Benefits" of the agreement  do they not also take on the "obligations"- ie do they not have to provide the services that the loan had paid for but weren't delivered? They say not!

 

thank you

C

 

 

Edited by clarity99
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Topic moved to Financial Legal Issues Forum.

 

By pursuing do you mean you have actually received a court claim ?

 

Andy

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Hi Andy,  yes- its at the bundle stage!

 

They've denied they have any "Obligation" but claim "all of the Rights and Benefits". Have I mistakenly believed as the debt owner, they have the same obligation to provide the training?

 

They've sited "Linden Gardens Trust Ltd v Lenesta Sludge Disposals Ltd"  but that is a property building and is not covered by the CCA.

 

As another quirk, I should also say they're suing me under my  first and middle name. From the outset and even during mediation, I had pointed out they needed to re-issue the claim  (where I would also include a counter-claim for the training)..... but that was ignoredCounty Court Bulk Centre "advised" it should have been re-issued.

 

thanks for getting back to me so quickly

 

C

 

 

Edited by clarity99
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please complete this

 

 and post up the defence you filed

and their WS too.

 

did you send CCa request and CPR too?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi DX

I will get onto the claim and defence, but the WS runs to 80 pages and would take an age to redact.

 

Sorry DX I know its a bit Cheeky, but I was hoping for a quick opinion on "all of the Rights, Benefits and Obligation"   vs  just "all of the Rights and Benefits"   ......    I couldn't find it anywhere. 

 

There is Section 75 protection with the original lender, but does that transfer with the new debt owner?

 

great work on the site.....

 

C

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the training is nothing to do with them

and you should not ever be counterclaiming.

 

if the original providers case was so strong why didn't they take you to court and crush you as they do in numerous threads here>?

 

get that sticky done please so we know the players and their cards. and get your defence up.

 

to me, sadly you've gone down the wrong route here in defending what is a simple loan claim by a debt buyer, we see JCA/I all the time here and we beat them even in PDL loans with full paperwork

 

dx

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks DX, but as always- left it to the last minute and this is an excellent group, but it wasn't my call at the time.

 

Yes Mantis Shrimp, the training provider completed the loan application and it was digitally signed online at the point of sale; the Lender's Agreement (OmniCapital) includes "Linked Agreement" that provides for suing "  us (Lender) , the supplier (Training Provider), each or both" in the event the goods or services are unsatsfactory or not provided.

 

C

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Also CCA and DPA requests went in to both lender and debt purchaser. The latter passed this down the line to the original lender.

 

There is an outstanding S77 request on JC Aquisitions, which should have prevented them pursuing this, but if they produce this before the hearing, then it can go ahead.

 

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  • Andyorch changed the title to Help with a debt purchasing company - Court Claim

Who has said that to you? Thats not correct. 

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Until we see the particulars of claim ...your response defence/witness statement and a brief explanation of how the debt arouse/failed timeframe its really pointless posting anything further or even trying to to consider and explain the legalities of Benefits and Obligations within an agreement.

 

A bit like asking us what do we think of this book and you only gave us the last chapter :roll:

 

Flesh your topic out.

 

Andy

  • I agree 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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Which Court have you received the claim from ? MCOL Northampton N1

 

 

If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. (not the response page or AOS)

 

 

Name of the Claimant ? JC International Acquisition

 

Date of issue –  17 Nov 2020

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

 

1.The Claimant's Claim is for the sum of £3,xxx.xx being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant under a retail finance agreement, originally between the Defendant and OMNICapitalRetailFinance under account reference xxxxxxxx.


2.The Agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 197 4 and the rights, benefits and title to the agreement were assigned to the Claimant on xx/xx/xx19. Notice of the assignment has been given to the Defendant.


3.Upon the Defendant defaulting on payments due under the agreement and, despite previous demands for payment being made by the Originating Creditor and the Claimant, the Defendant remains in default of the agreement.

 

 

What is the total value of the claim? 3800
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Not sure
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address?

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Loan 
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned/ Debt Purchaser
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not immediately - No
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? No
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No
 

Why did you cease payments? No payments were made- no services were provided
 

What was the date of your last payment? none
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Yes
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? YesNo

 

Claim Form 17112020 - redacted.pdf Defence .pdf

Edited by dx100uk
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Context

 

So Shrimp took out a loan for a training course with a Provider in May 2018.

The Provider completed the loan application forms online and Shrimp digitally signed.

 

In June 2018 when Shrimp contacted Provider to undertake Training they went dark.

The Provider liquidated in Sept/Oct 2018 and Shrimp never had his Training.

 

OmniCapxx (Lender) were chasing payments but Shrimp refused, made no payments and had cancelled Direct Debit.

Lender defaulted the agreement in September 2018 and ended it December 2019 when it was assigned to JCI aqusitions (Assignee).

 

Shrimp made Assignee aware of dispute and again refused to pay as no goods/services were provided and he hadn't (directly) received any monies.

 

Assignee issued proceedings in his Christian names (first, second) but Shrimp acknowledged service anyway (!)

 

Contacted Northampton Bulk Clearing who said claim was defective and should be reissued - that was basis of defence.......

 

yes it is a rather poor defence, but it was to meet the deadline and it was expected Assignee would re-issue.

 

The agreement with the Lender is attached and it provides for suing the Lender and/or Provider.

I asked whether the Assignee should also assume those obligations.....

 

Omni Agreement - redacted.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
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1 hour ago, mantis shrimp said:

I think the line I suggested may well serve you much better than that defence. 

I totally agree it isn't great- but 11th hour and a genuine expectation it would be re-issued, or more to the point a hope that the defence would dissuade them from pursuing the debt!  clearly a fail

 

5 hours ago, dx100uk said:

to me, sadly you've gone down the wrong route here in defending what is a simple loan claim by a debt buyer, we see JCA/I all the time here and we beat them even in PDL loans with full paperwork

 

dx

 

Fair enough DX but I'm hoping all is not lost- what would you have done ?

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as in better chance of successful claim?

 

I also thought not Mantis, until the Assignee claims they have no obligation to provide the goods/service unlike the Assignor (who from the agreement do and they accept they do) so other than the Court fees, the Assignee has nothing to loose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by dx100uk
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Totally agree, all correspondence is about the threat of a CCJ when is Shrimp pays within 30 days, it isn't recorded (?).

So would you suggest issuing a claim against the Assignor?

Or somehow incorporate this into a witness statement and defence?

C

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2 hours ago, clarity99 said:

Date of issue –  17 Nov 2020

 

is that a year typo?

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Good grief so this has dragged on for 14mts with no hearings at all? Or did the org claim get stayed and this is a n244 lift and/or sj

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

no, that's the straight line from issuing the claim, mediation last September and then a 40 minute preliminary hearing which is scheduled for week after next.

 

On the plus side its allowed Shrimp to put money aside each month in case he ends up losing (which I'm hoping he doesn't but now fearing he might without this site's help?)

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You say your at the bundle stage.....I assume you are preparing or have already prepared your witness statement with disclosures ? In line with your Notice of allocation and the courts directions.

 

Can you upload a copy of your statement and the claimants statement along with any disclosures (all fully redacted )

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to JCI/BW Claimform - old Omni Capital Retail Finance Loan for Training program but provider went bust

At that stage of a preliminary hearing and bundle to produce, hence my late call into the group.

 

If as DX has said, I'm on the wrong route, what would be the best way of dealing with this with the limited timeframe?

 

My plan before my post was:

i) struck out for suing non-entity  (accepting they may simply re-issue)

ii) claim Section 75 'protection' - from Assignee

 

BUT as the Assignee has claimed rights and benefits but not obligations as per Mantis suggestion also now go for a seperate filing against Assignor.

 

If I'm completely way out, please say and if you can give any direction that really would be great.

 

C

 

 

 

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Completely way out ...name change is de minis and easily corrected......defence questioning the assignment onto a loser.

 

Quote

Can you upload a copy of your statement and the claimants statement along with any disclosures (all fully redacted )

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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Thanks Andy

 

Easily corrected without re-issue?  Then can I rely on my "embarrased defence" to produce a robust defence?

 

I haven't produced a WS yet, only ~80 pages of correspondence which probably now won't form the WS. There is a financial statement from Assignor which is how I know when the default occurred and assignment took place. A SAR produced lots of correspondence most of which is for the first time and includes a statement from the Assignor dated a week ago, that also hadn't been received.

 

I genuinely appreciate you spending your time on this, and happy to accept criticism and pointing out what I've got wrong but it isn't the same as helping direct me to what I need to change to get it right.............  do you agree with Mantis Shrimp's suggestions?

 

 

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And did the original creditor file and serve a Default Notice on you pursuant to section 87(1) of the CCA1974 ?

 

You state no in the link questionnaire I asked you to complete.......that's really all you need to defend this claim apart from the obvious that a service was never provided.


Forget the Assignee....a debt buyer that knows absolutely nothing about the debt, the history, the default, they simply bought a disputed debt for pence in the pound.

 

With regards to section 75 ...you have not made any payments.....you have suffered no loss....where does a section 75 come into this ?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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