The Training Room - Unethical but Legal?

[mantis shrimp]

fun for a good lawyer representing you

[stu007]

This is there link from FCA Register and interesting it is indeed:

 

Look at Trading Names, What this Firm can do in the UK, Consumer Credit, Other Activities, Who is involved with activities at this firm, Who is this firm connected to. (have a good look through it interesting read)

 

What they can do under Consumer Credit from the link is:

 

Quote

Credit Broking

Entering into regulated credit agreement as Lender (Excluding high-cost short-term credit, bill of sale agreement, and home collected credit agreement)

Exercising/having right to exercise lender's rights and duties under a regulated credit agreement (excluding high-cost short-term credit, bill of sale agreement, and home collected credit agreement)

 

FCA Register Link:

 

NewRegister

REGISTER.FCA.ORG.UK

 

[namedisplay]

I'm really sorry @stu007, I did look through it but I have no idea what any of it means or what the significaance is.  I really appreciate everyone spending time to look at this- but I really am clueless when it comes to this kind of thing.

[namedisplay]

I spoke to my father and he had this to say.  What do you guys think?

 

"It seems to me that you have applied for a loan/credit from a company.

 

They have not given you the money but have paid it to themselves in return for access to their services.  At some point they have denied you access to the service that you have paid for.  From this point, you are not making any financial demand on them (you are not accessing their servers and you are not taking the time of their staff (tutors)).  However they are still expecting you to pay for that which they have denied you use of.

 

To me, it seems equivalent to you buying a car using finance. You have been provided the funds to buy the car and you have made arrangements to pay off the loan for it.  Sadly, through no fault of your own, your circumstances have been changed.  

 

The car dealership has taken back (denied you use of) the car. The finance company (the car dealership) still wants you to pay back the whole cost of the car.  What has happened to the value of the car that they have taken back?  Surely they would offset the value of the car against what you owe on the finance agreement?   It seems that in this case the car has been stolen by the car dealership (finance company.)

 

in this case, you have not been able to use the whole course, and so you have only caused a financial drain on the Training Room for that fraction of the total cost. 

 

if they want you to pay the cost of the finance for the whole course then they should give you the balance of the cash that you were not able to spend on access to the course..."

[Manxman in exile]

Your father would be likely to say that, but it isn't quite so simple as he indicates, is it?  (Has he read the contract you signed in respect of the training course and has he read the Training Room's response to your complaint?).

 

You weren't buying something material like a car, you were buying access to a course and training materials with a view to completing the course satisfactorily and gaining some sort of qualification.

 

The contract you agreed to required you to complete the course within a specific timescale.  If you were not able to complete it within that period you could, under a limited range of reasons, apply for an extension.  If you did apply for an extension there was no guarantee you would get one - it was at the Training Room's discretion - but if they did grant one it would come at extra cost to you.  As I understand it they did eventually grant you an extension but you were unable to afford the extra cost.

 

In their response to your complaint TTR seem to be making several points at least some of which seem valid to me.  First, according to them your health issues were discussed prior to the course and it would appear that you assured them this would not be a problem.  (The point being - if I've understood correctly - that you can't use a pre-existing condition as a reason for an extension).  Second, they say they will not grant extensions if the student has not completed enough of the course to suggest they are capable of completing it.  They say that they do this in the student's interests because they don't want students to spend extra money unnecessarily and pointlessly on extensions if they are unlikely to complete the course.  In your case they further say that you applied for an extension far too early in the course and that you still had more than ample time to complete it in the training period.

 

So if I've understood it all correctly (and apologies if I haven't) TTR gave you full access to the course and materials throughout the training period, but you did not complete the course because of illness.  You applied for an extension and either (a) TTR did not grant it or (b) they did grant it but you did not take up their offer.  Either way you did not complete the course but TTR want full payment for it.

 

Your father's analogy falls down here:  " The car dealership has taken back (denied you use of) the car."  But TTR have not, unless I'm mistaken, denied you access to the course within the training period.  You were simply unable to take advantage of that access because of illness.  TTR appear to have done what they agreed to do under the contract - provided the course to you - and they expect to be paid for it.

 

The correct analogy with a car purchase would be where you bought a car on finance but then through illness became unable to use it.  The finance company would still want to be paid whether you could drive it or not.

 

Looking at the T&Cs of the agreement regarding the course and looking at TTR's response to your complaint (which I think contains more information than you have given us) I'm not convinced that you have much of a valid complaint based on the training contract.

 

But having said that, there might be other avenues you can explore to avoid having to repay the loan.  But these are not areas I know much about so you will need to rely on input from others:

• you might be able to put forward some argument that the course T&Cs are unfair in some way.  ( I don't think they are, but see what others say)
• you complained early on in this thread that the course materials and teaching etc were far from satisfactory and possibly substandard.  Have you raised this as a complaint with TTR?
• you say other people have complained on social media.  Do you know what outcomes these people got or are they still dissastisfied?
• somebody else has already suggested that there might be something questionable about one arm of TTR giving you a loan to pay the course-providing part of TTR, and then charging you interest for the privilege!  Is there a possibility the loan has been missold in some way?  I don't know but others will.
• stu007 has pointed something out that might help you in #27, but like you said in #28 I don't understand what it is without further explanation

 

What you need to try to keep separate in your own mind - I think - is that there are two distinct but related issues here.  The first surrounds your issues with the course itself, the second concerns the repayment of the loan.

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Manxman in exile

[namedisplay]

Thank you for your detailed comment @Manxman in exile, I'm grateful for the time you spent on it.

 

I understand what you're saying, and I guess I feared it would be the case.

 

In response to your final comments, I didn't make a direct complaint regarding the course materials at the time.  My mental state lead me to believe it was my fault that I couldn't get through it.  It wasn't until I heard others mention their thoughts on the course materials that I realised I really should have expected more than what was presented.  

I have managed to get in touch with 2 or 3 others, however most of these review sites don't let you contact people so it's not easy to open up a dialogue.  Those that I have spoke to are definitely still dissatisfied, but I'm still waiting to hear about any details.

 

Thank you again for your time.

[Manxman in exile]

See what others say.  I'm not convinced that you have an argument but I'm sure others might disagree with me.

 

Certainly the finance arm of TTR lending you money to pay the course-providing arm of TTR and charging you interest for it seems open to abuse to me, and as others above have suggested might have involved mis-selling the loan.

 

Also - like you - I'm not sure what point stu007 was getting at.

 

And I'm also not sure of the reference to the "trainline" scam referred to in #14 by lenny100...

Edited January 31, 2022 by Manxman in exile