Exclusive Wedding Cars Letter Of Claim - want Full balance after refusing my deposit return

[arklst1976]

Hi
I'm after some help with trying to get my wedding car hire deposit returned.

I'll provide a bit of a chronological background to try and keep things clear.

January 2020 - Began booking church, venue and other services for our Wedding for 29th May 2021 - 100+ guest during the day, and 200+ on the night.

25 Jan 2020 - Attended Exclusive Wedding Cars (EWC herein). Booked and Paid deposit for 1 Beetle and 3 Camper Vans = £400.
Corona came along and we were in and out of lockdowns.

Competitions and Markets Authority (CMA) brought out some guidance for Wedding Services 7 Sept 2020.

In mid January, we got back in contact with EWC via text, expressing our concerns over the wedding and Government imposed Public Health measures(we were currently in lockdown and no idea when things would return to normal), and that we were looking to move the wedding forward 1 year.

 

3 Feb 2020 - Emailed to cancel our Wedding date of 29th May 2021, after text had been sent and Steve replied asking for it to be sent via email. We asked if 28th May 2022 was available.

 

5 Feb 2020 - EWC replied to say they could not fulfil our new date due to other commitments.

 

7 Feb 2020 - We replied that we would have to cancel our booking with EWC, but would be in touch if dates changed again.

 

22 Feb 2021 - Government published Guidance (Roadmap out of Lockdown) - Stated, “Not before 17th May…Up to 30 people will be able to attend weddings…”.

*Note again our wedding was for 100/200+ guests at the Stadium of Light, so not reasonable to have the same venue for 30 people.

 

5 Jan 2022 -  Called and spoke with Steve to see if they had any availability (any cars at all) for our date. He was driving and so couldn’t confirm.

                        Exchanged some texts on the same day to which he replied in the evening, that they had nothing, but to keep in touch due to cancellations.

 

15 Jan 2022 - Started an email thread asking about deposits and their return. EWC went straight on the defensive saying we wouldn't be getting it back and we should check the contract. We asked for a copy as we were not given a copy when we booked.

 

17 Jan 2022 - Emailed to ask for the return of our deposit. EWC replied that since we cancelled within 4 months of the wedding date, they now wanted the remaining balance of £850, and we should check the contract. We asked for a copy of the contract again, and that we would seek legal advice.

 

EWC replied with ever increasing sarcasm, saying we would receive notice demanding the remaining balance of £850 in the post. I replied that if they didn't supply a copy of the contract I would send them a SAR.

 

20 Jan 2022 - Sent a letter via Post and email, asking EWC to reconsider their position.
We stated we believe the contract to have terms that would be deemed unfair terms that were not clear; there is a ‘Significant imbalance’ concerned with the parties’ rights and obligations, which can be seen as disproportionate financial sanctions; their ‘Terms and Conditions’ appear to seek to remove the consumers rights, while removing their obligations, but allowing them to make an unjustified windfall gain.

 

We also stated that we believe the guidance and statements by the CMA, suggested that since the wedding we had planned couldn't go ahead (we'd be breaking the law with the numbers we wanted) on our planned date, and that a reasonable person wouldn't expect the wedding to go ahead when we cancelled the date, that we should receive a full refund as they were not out of pocket.

 

We gave EWC 14 days to respond...it took them 6 hours, refusing our request while coated in lashings of sarcasm and arrogance.

 

I'm guessing my next step would be Letter before Action?

Any help much appreciated.

 

Attached is the "Contract" - removed the signatures, but you can see the whole contract.

The booking form has no Ts&Cs or costs of any kind, just addresses, personal info and the vehicles.

 

 

EWC-Contract.pdf

Edited January 22 by dx100uk
formatting

[arklst1976]

Hi @Andyorch
Would you have any advice on this?
Or anyone for that matter.
Does the CMAs Statement on coronavirus (COVID-19), consumer contracts, cancellation and refunds

(Updated 28 August 2020), Payments for future services, help me.
Really unsure of the strength of my position.

Thanks

[dx100uk]

Exclusive Wedding Cars | Vintage & Classic Wedding Cars

EXCLUSIVEWEDDINGCARS.NET

---

Wedding Car Hire Company in the North East. Classic Wedding Cars & Vintage Wedding Cars in Durham, Teesside, Darlington, Sunderland &...

this them?

 

were those T&C's written down on the back of a FAG packet one night in the pub!!

 

totally unenforceable

 

how did you pay?

 

dx

[arklst1976]

Hi,
Yes thats the company.
The Ts and Cs look like they should be in crayon, they seem that bad.
In one response the guy said they were written by the Federation of Small Businesses...I find that hard to believe.

We paid £300 cash on the day, which we have the receipt for, then £100 by bank transfer.
He has no card machine.
I can change the names in the email exchange and attach them to this thread.
You'll be blown away by the aroogance of the guy.
He's blatantly trying it on, thinking legal costs will put me off, but it won't.

[dx100uk]

aw shame you paid by cash/bank transfer ....in ANY financial transaction ALWAYS use a CARD.

best if it's a credit Card

slightly worse if it's a debit card.

 

they each via section 75 on credit and chargeback on debit , give you degrees of protection upon claiming/involving your card provider/Bank.

 

 

[arklst1976]

Yeah, probably why the little toad doesn't take card.
So, am I going in the right direction? Letter before action my next step?
Doesn't matter what I've thrown at him, he's not interested.
There's reviews on various platforms with people having the same issue.

The new company we booked our wedding cars with know all about him. As soon as we mentioned EWC, the guy said "let me guess...you're struggling to get your deposit back"

 

[arklst1976]

Saw a solicitor this morning.
While she says there's a strong argument to be made, and that the guy seems horrible to deal with, it's probably not worth wasting my time and effort on it.
He seems to have a disregard for everything decent including Gov guidelines on repaying the deposit.

Not sure what I'm supposed to be doing next really, so I'll leave this for now.
If anyone has some advice, I'm happy to take it onboard...

[Andyorch]

Topic temporally locked whilst the topic is reviewed.

[arklst1976]

Hi
I'm after some help with trying to get my wedding car hire deposit returned.

I'll provide a bit of a chronological background to try and keep things clear.

January 2020 - Began booking church, venue and other services for our Wedding for May 2021 - 100+ guest during the day, and 200+ on the night.

Jan 2020 - Attended Wedding Car (WC herein). Booked and Paid deposit for 4 motors .
Corona came along and we were in and out of lockdowns.

Competitions and Markets Authority (CMA) brought out some guidance for Wedding Services 7 Sept 2020.

In mid January, we got back in contact with WC via text, expressing our concerns over the wedding and Government imposed Public Health measures(we were currently in lockdown and no idea when things would return to normal), and that we were looking to move the wedding forward 1 year.

 

 Feb 2020 - Emailed to cancel our Wedding date in  May 2021, after text had been sent and car guy replied asking for it to be sent via email. We asked if another date was available.

 

 2020 - WC replied to say they could not fulfil our new date due to other commitments.

 

 Feb 2020 - We replied that we would have to cancel our booking with WC, but would be in touch if dates changed again.

 

 Feb 2021 - Government published Guidance (Roadmap out of Lockdown) - Stated, “Not before 17th May…Up to 30 people will be able to attend weddings…”.

*Note again our wedding was for 100/200+ guests at the Stadium of Light, so not reasonable to have the same venue for 30 people.

 

 2022 -  Called and spoke with car guy to see if they had any availability (any cars at all) for our date. He was driving and so couldn’t confirm.

                        Exchanged some texts on the same day to which he replied in the evening, that they had nothing, but to keep in touch due to cancellations.

 

 Jan 2022 - Started an email thread asking about deposits and their return. WC went straight on the defensive saying we wouldn't be getting it back and we should check the contract. We asked for a copy as we were not given a copy when we booked.

 

 Jan 2022 - Emailed to ask for the return of our deposit. WC replied that since we cancelled within 4 months of the wedding date, they now wanted the remaining balance of several hundred quid, and we should check the contract. We asked for a copy of the contract again, and that we would seek legal advice.

 

WC replied with ever increasing sarcasm, saying we would receive notice demanding the remaining balance of £850 in the post. I replied that if they didn't supply a copy of the contract I would send them a SAR.

 

 Jan 2022 - Sent a letter via Post and email, asking WC to reconsider their position.
We stated we believe the contract to have terms that would be deemed unfair terms that were not clear; there is a ‘Significant imbalance’ concerned with the parties’ rights and obligations, which can be seen as disproportionate financial sanctions; their ‘Terms and Conditions’ appear to seek to remove the consumers rights, while removing their obligations, but allowing them to make an unjustified windfall gain.

 

We also stated that we believe the guidance and statements by the CMA, suggested that since the wedding we had planned couldn't go ahead (we'd be breaking the law with the numbers we wanted) on our planned date, and that a reasonable person wouldn't expect the wedding to go ahead when we cancelled the date, that we should receive a full refund as they were not out of pocket.

 

We gave WC 14 days to respond...it took them 6 hours.

 

Today they have sent my Mrs Letter before Action

Any help much appreciated.

The booking form has no Ts&Cs or costs of any kind, just addresses, personal info and the vehicles.

Edited January 25 by arklst1976

[arklst1976]

@Andyorch@dx100uk
Hi guys, redacted post from before.
They've sent LbA and could use some help.
Or if you like I'll take this down.
I'd send messages but keep getting "not registered" page.
Thanks

[Andyorch]

See if they do issue a claim...far easier for you to defend a claim/counterclaim rather than you submit a claim...start preparing a counter claim in readiness.

 

Andy 

[arklst1976]

Will do, thanks 

[Justice1234]

Dear Mr arkist1976 please put all your facts right in your thread to consumer action group 

 

All above is your version of events and there is always two sides to every case .

You signed and agreed to the offer and acceptance at my office and now your trying every way to get out of the agreement that we both entered into 

 

When you wanted my vw campervans for your wedding you agreed to our terms of business and now that you don't want them you decide to try creep out of the contractual agreement that you entered into

 

There was only one thing that stopped us from delivering these campervans on the date booked and it was your cancellation 

 

Weddings was actually going ahead on the date that was booked with myself and there was absolutely nothing legally from stopping us operating 

 

you have cost my business £850 becouse of your change of mind 

 

these are the simple facts .

 

Best regards 

 

 

 

 

[arklst1976]

Hi guys,
The Mrs received an LbA from the Wedding Car company.Its addressed to the Mrs, as she was a party to the contract, not me.

 

 I have found evidence that they were in fact notified outside the 4 month window. (Purely by chance as I was looking at dates we were in contact with the venue and other wedding suppliers).

 

I'm creating a response to the LbA on behalf of the Mrs, which will include this new info plus what she intends to rely on, should they choose to move forward.

 

It's actually been enlightening for me as I haven't researched law stuff since I gained my Diploma in Law, and was on another forum, where I sought and provided help.

 

Due to the fact that EWC are following the thread (as is their right to be fair) I will be posting the bare minimum and not asking for help (there's plenty on the site, so I'll do my own leg work), but will update as things progress.

I was wrong to call EWC a little toad, and I am disappointed in myself for the term.

 

But, since EWC is a legal fiction, I guess feelings weren't hurt, it was simply beneath me.

 

I hope you're all having a pleasant week so far, and if I can ever help you in the future, I will.

[dx100uk]

It p'haps might not be a good idea to further outline or state anything at all in your paploc reply that you have reliable evidence your 1st notification was outside 4 mts, even if that term is pants anyway in their t&c's. Save it for your witness statement if things ever go that far, ....

 

Dx

[Justice1234]

Don't forget the parasite comments all recorded 

 

Your law degree even strengthens my case that you understand the terms of business that you agreed to 

 

Ewc was never contacted before the date you cancelled and even if we where the official cancellation was within the 4 month period 

 

We also advised you we didn't have the new date that you proposed as we had other commitments and sed we would look at other dates but you declined all in emails all of this was within the 4 month period. 

 

I will look forward to your letter 

 

 

[dx100uk]

2 hours ago, dx100uk said:

It p'haps might not be a good idea to further outline or state anything at all in your paploc reply that you have reliable evidence your 1st notification was outside 4 mts, even if that term is pants anyway in their t&c's. Save it for your witness statement if things ever go that far, ....

 

Dx

 

i missed out earlier expanding earlier due to having to deal with some rather high winds at present at my isle to details how unimportant T&C's really are ...

 

this very forum, recently 16yrs old, would never have existed were it not for the fight and uk wide consumer wins against the unfair Terms and conditions concerning bank charges and Payment protection Insurance. £B's were won by mere members of joe public reclaiming bank penalty charges and PPI. 

 

it has absolutely zero legal bearing that you agreed to up or signed any agreement/contract to those back of a fag packets t&c's, that does not, by default, mean you are legally bound by them, nor that they are ever enforceable.

 

your position is very strong stand your ground.

 

it amazes me that, as we see with rouge car traders and other such businesses, some persist in..

Van brought from Copart not advertised correctly. - Vehicle retailers and manufacturers - Consumer Action Group

which is why we have the above running in our ticker bar at the top,

 

some traders purposefully never allow card use and insist on cash / bank transfer as they full well know that removes 99% of your consumer rights.

 

dx

 

 

[Justice1234]

Dear Mr dx100uk with all due respect consumer's have the consumer rights to protect them and small businesses have terms of business to protect them if consumers want to use the service that they provide they have to agree to their terms or not use the service its as simple as that 

 

Terms of business is a legal binding contract On offer and acceptance 

 

The thread that you have attached has nothing at all in conjunction to exclusive wedding cars trading terms on booking a hire car

 

Best regards 

[dx100uk]

No . T&C's are not legally binding if they are unfair - end of ..no matter what you might make a customer do, state or sign.

 

dx

 

 

 

 

[Justice1234]

And legally binding if they are fair and why would anyone want to sign and agree to them if they were fair when they wanted the service but unfair when they dont 

 

Best regards 

[dx100uk]

doesn't make them binding by default whether they be fair or not, nor appear anything like those published on any other like industry std business.

 

you'll have a very difficult time proving that sadly, a quick google search in only 4 mins by me has just shown no other like bare terms.

if these have been approved or issued by whomever , you've been done over...sorry.

 

i'd be very careful here.

 

the op has 30 days to reply to your Letter of claim, and if you are to abide by the pre action protocol, you should not be issuing a court claim through a solicitor to northants bulk until after another 30 days.

 

i seriously suggest you consider your position in all this, even without considering the OP might well have what they mention regarding proof of cancel outside and complying with your 4mts rule.

 

IMHO your position is not strong and it could in the long run be better to use that time/effort on your business model terms to be in line with your peers and walk away.

 

could be far cheaper than a court claim win or lose, that could cause your business irreprovable damage in bookings longterm compared with £850.

 

there is also the covid guideline issues to TIC and that might be mighty difficult to overcome as well.

 

dx

 

[Justice1234]

Thanks for the kind advice dx100 I take on board but I do know my legal rights 

 

Best regards 

[arklst1976]

Looks like there were some interesting points made after my last post.
I have Justice1234 set to ignore since the other day so no idea (and no interest) what they said.

Reply to Letter before Claim will be sent in the next couple of days.
Cheers

[arklst1976]

Hi guys.
Here's the LbA the Mrs received.
Response is almost complete, still going over it
Been scouring pages on this site to help with it, plus the defence, counterclaim.

EWC-LbA_pdf.pdf

[honeybee13]

Are those dates in his letter right? You cancelled more than a year before the date you'd booked the cars for?

 

HB