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Roofer charging much more than initial agreed with unauthorized work


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Hi all,

 

I hope this is the right forum to ask the question. 

 

Today I have had a knock on the door, with a man claiming to be a roofer saying that he and his team is doing a big job near by and today there is some down time and they would like to go around the neighborhood to find extra jobs with a discount. He looked genuine enough and asked if I would like to have my gutters cleaned.  When he gave the price of 120 pounds and that he would do it straight away.  I agreed. 

 

I was very busy today with back to back work meetings and I just left them doing the job.  Soon one of his team came to me again saying that while cleaning the gutter he saw some missing slated and rotten timber underneath, with some small birds nesting in the holes, asking if I would like to get it fixed.  I asked for a quote and he said no more than a couple of hundred and he can do it quickly.  If I don't fix it then potentially it would result in damages to the walls etc.  He wanted to show me the damages but I was in the middle of a meeting and just agreed, but insisted that I must be informed of any more work and anything more expensive I need to see a quote first before deciding.

 

So about two hours later they told me they have completed the job --- I did not observe them.  And to my estonishment they gave an invoice initially of 1750 pounds!  The reason, they explained was that they went on to the flat roof and find edge of the roof splines to be in a poor condition and decided to repair those for me.  They used concrete to secure them and was quoting 40 pounds each, for total of 41.  They also said they sealed the lead covers underneath.  The original job to fix the rotten timber was quoted at around 500 (already much more than I was expecting).  They gave me a discount which resulted in that 1750 figure.  They claimed repairing those were necessary as part of repairing the rotten timbers?  I am no expert but it didn't sound right.

 

I am definitely not happy and asked for an itemized breakdown of materials and labour before I will consider paying any of it. They then sent me an invoice of 1500 with no details at all.

 

It has now dawned on me that all of it feels so fishy.  I am considering my next actions:

 

- I am willing to pay for gutter cleaning

- I am willing to pay for the repairs for rotten timber, IF they can provide proof of what they have done.  I am asking for before and after photos.

- I am not willing to pay for the work I have not asked for and did not know of beforehand.  They tried to make it sound like I agreed to it, but I am quite certain I definitely did not.  However there is no proof, everything is verbal.

 

There are no contracts signed.  As of now I have not paid them a penny.

 

I wish to seek advice on if my next step actions are reasonable and what other courses I should take?  To be honest I am now really gutted that I opened the door for them, and I am now even not sure if they had actually replaced anything on my roof as I did not see any rotten timber being taken down, no waste whatsoever.  I am even more worried if the roof was damaged in the process.

 

I am sure they will be coming back to my house tomorrow to demand payment, so any advice on how to deal with them would be really helpful.  I also don't want to antagonise them, I have no idea who those people are, I checked their company and it looks like they only established it last year.

 

Thank you so much in advance!

 

 

Edited by wtlh
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Hi Wtlh,

 

This is a classic scam where you don't really know what was needed and have no idea what was actually done.

 

Doi you know the name of "the company" involved. 

 

You're right - that they'll come back to demand money tomorrow but you really need someone to be with you to witness what is said and what happens.

 

Sounds like you agreed to £120 and maybe £200 on top for the extra work. But nothing more unless they told you what was needed AND you agreed to it.

 

I really doubt they did all the work they say was necessary, and carried out, so you must challenge this.

 

When they visit tomorrow and demand any more than £320, tell them you have no more than this and are waiting for a relative and/or Trading Standards to visit and assess the works carried out so you can see what extra work was needed or done.

 

This looks like a classic scam and please have someone with you so you can challenge these people without feeling threatened/ vulnerable.

 

Finally, if they get aggressive or you feel intimidated, shut the door and call the police. These "traders" will hate to see the police involved !

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get your mobile out an film them if they turn up (tip hold your phone landscape!)

 

as advised sadly you've fallen for one of the oldest tricks in the book.

 

bet 99% of that work was never done and you need to get it inspected asap!! probably done more damage than good

 

go ring the police tomorrow tell them what has happened. if you have no local number ring 101 and ask them to put your through.

also some councils are very good at helping on these scammers try ringing and asking them to help/advice.

both might already be aware they are in the area or want to put out a warning.

 

whilst you have your phone out go make sure you get their reg number too!

 

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Slick,

 

Thank you so much for replying so quickly.  For the extra work, they said "it is not going to be more than couple of hundred pounds but I will tell you the exact figure when I am done.".  But you are absolutely right in that something around 200 was what I understood it to be.

 

It is difficult for me to find someone at such short notice though, especially that my son has just contracted Covid and no one is supposed to enter.  Wife is a teacher and needs to be at school.  

 

I have sent them an email recording my objections and as record of my side of story.  I have much doubt they will reply in written form.  

 

I think tomorrow I will first focus on getting the proof of what they have actually done, as I feel arguing about what I have authorised or not is a lot more challenging without any written evidence.   I am therefore demanding before and after pictures and a detailed list of what materials they have used and what work they have carried out. 

 

 I have a feeling that they haven't done any work, or did a really shoddy job. 

 

May be I can use this as the start of the process?  If they refuse to provide photos, or produce inadequate photos, then this makes involvement of a trading standards person reasonable?

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who ARE you emailing?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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4 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

get your mobile out an film them if they turn up (tip hold your phone landscape!)

 

as advised sadly you've fallen for one of the oldest tricks in the book.

 

bet 99% of that work was never done and you need to get it inspected asap!! probably done more damage than good

 

go ring the police tomorrow tell them what has happened. if you have no local number ring 101 and ask them to put your through.

also some councils are very good at helping on these scammers try ringing and asking them to help/advice.

both might already be aware they are in the area or want to put out a warning.

 

whilst you have your phone out go make sure you get their reg number too!

 

 

Hi dx100uk,

 

Thanks a lot for the advice.  To get the roof inspected, do you know whom should I use? Can a building surveyor do the job?  Another roofer? But I suppose that will just be the words of one roofer against another?

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Just don't pay them!

 

There is no "process".  Unless they are willing to take you to court months down the line and convince a judge to make you pay, you owe nothing.

 

As dx has asked, can you please name these people?  They may be well known to the site.

We could do with some help from you.

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5 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

who ARE you emailing?

The company.  They gave me a flyer with their contact details. I also took a photo of one of the person's bank card --- for bank transfer. I have also checked their company and its director has the same surname as the person on the bank card.  They could be family business.

 

I am not 100% certain they are scammers, they have been extremely polite and respectful, however they way they pushed their business I would say I am 80-90% certain I have been scammed.  But I also don't want to disrepute or damage a legit family business needlessly, just because they went too greedy.

 

The person casually gave his bank card to me without hesitation. One would have thought that if they are scammers then they probably don't want me to know about their bank details?  They also had card readers etc, wanted me to pay on spot I flatly refused and insisted bank transfer later.

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They are called QWG Roofing Contractors, according to company house, they only existed since 2021, never filed a company account as of yet.

Edited by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed
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6 minutes ago, wtlh said:

QWG Roofing Contractors

QWG Roofing Contractors Ltd  has over 15 years’ experience in the roofing trade. 

 

yea ok but why are they only just started....smells!!

 

as you in their area? luton

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Not one TrustPilot review.  Yet lots of positive reviews - on their own site!

We could do with some help from you.

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 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Nope, they are supposedly based in Luton and I am in London near Hampstead.  They claimed that they were doing a job near by and is only here for a week or so, and this is willing to offer discounts for more jobs around the area.

Edited by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed
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3 minutes ago, FTMDave said:

Not one TrustPilot review.  Yet lots of positive reviews - on their own site!

I know, when I searched them online afterwards my heart sinks.  Luckily I haven't paid a penny yet.

 

They cleaned by gutter, I will accept that and pay them the agreed 120, scammers or not.  I know they will NOT be happy hearing that.

 

What I worry about is if I antagonise them they will seek revenge.  They know my house, where I live etc.

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please to protect yourself do as i originally posted.,

if they are legit, then they wont mind a bit.

 

sorry but this smells badly.

 

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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No, don't pay a penny.  Film them.  Film their vehicle registrations.  Immediately tell them the videos are being sent to friends.  Afterwards inform the police.

 

You live in London!  Imagine how many people they are trying this on with, and how many are fighting back.  If you lived in a little village you'd be right to be scared, given you're in London they will just move on to the next mug.

We could do with some help from you.

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I just checked council's advice on fraud what happend today fits 9/10 of their description of bogus tradesmen tactics. The only difference is that they didn't really try to pressure me to pay on the spot for some strange reason nor to sign any contracts.

 

I will call citizens advice first thing in the morning and the local police station as advised.  Let's hope they don't come knocking at 7am.  I will put up all the blinds and pretend no one is at home until I have made those phone calls.

 

 

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Leave cab out of it. They are sometimes useless and simply complicate matters.

 

DX

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ah too late to see your reply.  I called CAB first thing this morning and the advise they have given me are as follows:

 

- I should not pay anything now

- Since they have not given me any cooling off period of 14 days for the contract, as a consumer I have now the right to cancel within 1 year and 14 days.

- I write a paper letter (send recorded mail) informing them of this fact, asking for their complaints procedure and whether they are a member of or agree to resolve this dispute using the ADR (alternative disy resolution), and a deadline of 14 days to respond.

 

They have also passed me to the council's trading standards enforcement office.  An officer has just called me, with the advice that

 

- I should avoid face to face or telephone contact at all possible.  (Luckily they don't have my number)

- Since I have already written to them asking for the detailed itinerary of materials and costs, wait for their response to defend their position

- Send the paper letter as advised by CAB

- Keep the officer informed of all updates and she will be tracking the case and offer advice

- Don't pay anything until the matter is resolved in a satisfactory manner

 

As a matter of fact they just came to my house 😬.  Getting angrier.  I am pretending I am not at home. They knocked open my neighbours door and asked them to call me (I had to mute my phone in a rush).  They also asked my neighbour for my phone number and it's is good that he didn't give it to them.  I texted my neighbour in secret all this time.

 

But I felt like being castled in my own house.  It must not continue like this, if they come to my house like this everyday.  I travel a lot to for work, and I don't want to leave my wife and kids in any risk.

 

I hope they go away soon and if they come back later today or tomorrow I will tell them in face that I have sought advice from trading standards and they told me not to pay and all disputes should be handled in writing, with an independent arbitrator.  I hope that will kill their hope and move on.

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I actually agree with the paper letter idea and would send this off tomorrow (1st class post with a free Certificate of Posting.  Don't send  it recorded mail, they would probably refuse to sign and then you'd have no proof the letter was ever sent).

 

 

Dear QWG Roofing Contractors Ltd with over 15 years’ experience in the roofing trade but only set up in 2021,

 

Re: your invoice no.XXXX

 

I refer to my e-mail of XXXX which you haven't bothered to reply to.

 

You are well aware that I dispute this invoice.  If you disagree with my position, I suggest you follow the normal civil law procedure to resolve the dispute.

 

Normal civil law procedure does not include visiting my property, disturbing my neighbour, knocking open their door and harassing them to give you my phone number.

 

Should you again indulge in this intimidatory behaviour I will film you and your vehicles and immediately call the police.

 

Yours,

 

XXXXX"

 

 

That should get rid of them.  After all they are conmen operating in a big city and there are loads of others they can pry on instead.

 

If I'm wrong, and if they appear again, then, depending on how confident your feel, really do film them and their vehicles ... or if that is too intimidating call the police.

 

I'm unclear if they have actually given you an invoice.  if not, change that bit of the letter to "Re: your demand for £XXXX" and later "this demand".

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Tell them your not paying apart from the agreed amount and your calling the police regarding the rest. They are not not stupid and won't want to be on the police's radar. It'll be a case of they tried it on, it didn't work so they will move on. Stand your ground, I bet he will take the 120 and you'll never hear from him again.  They are just chancers and they know when the games up.

Edited by FTMDave
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Thanks a lot for all the advices and especially the letter template FTMDave!  It really means a lot.

 

They indeed came back Thursday evening and I did open door that time.  As expected they demanded payment of full amount and I flatly refused.  Then they back tracked and asked me how much their work is worth.  I said that I cannot possibly answer that question until they provide me with a detailed list of work and materials used, and any other evidences of work that has been carried out.  I also told them that I consulted trading standards and it is their advice to me that I should not make payments right now until the pending questions have been answered.

 

They don't have any photo evidences of the work they carried out and refused to produce any guarantee documents unless I make full payment.  They also back tracked on their claim that they have replaced 41 top slates (claimed to be 40 pounds each), and stated that they just repaired it and 1600 pounds in cost is the in the materials.  I asked is it cement or mortar, they said more than that but did not say what, so I again insisted they give me the full list of what they have used.

 

As expected they then demanded 120 pounds for the gutter cleaning to be payed right on the spot, and I said I am happy to do so, but if I am going to pay now they must provide me a separate invoice for it and it should be treated as a separate job to everything else they demanded.  For some strange reason they refused to do so. They then agreed to send me all the detailed itinerary of work carried out as well as any photos they had Thursday night.  I haven't received anything.

 

I will wait for a couple of days for them to respond and then send out the paper letter as suggested.  I will also send a copy of that letter to their email, just in case they claim they never received the letter.

 

I will not send them the 120 pounds payment for the gutter cleaning until they send me a revised invoice separating it from the rest. And for the repair job I agreed to I must first see evidence of what work has been carried out.

 

I search Google maps for their business address, but strangely at that address is a solicitors office.  Is it possible they are registered at a solicitor representing them?  

 

 

 

Edited by wtlh
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well done

pers id not pay them a penny!!

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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23 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Nearly 50 companies are registered at that address, so I'd say the lawyer or someone else in the building sets up companies and acts as the registered address.

 

HB

This is most likely the case.  In those circumstances do the solicitors receive letters for them too?

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