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CEL ANPR PCN - Butterfly Walk Car Park, Denmark Hill, London, SE5 8RW - issued more than 14 days after event?


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Hi there,

 

I’ve received a Parking Charge Notice through the post from Civil Enforcement.

having read the pinned post details below, it states PCNs received through the post must be received within 14 days of the incident.

 

the ‘issue date’ on my PCN is 04/01/2022, and date of incident is 12/12/2021.


please can someone explain the ‘must be received within 14 days’ logic to me, and advise on whether I can ignore this based on that?

 

thanks in advance 

 

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture] 

(must be received within 14 days from the Incident)

 

Please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement

Give answer here
 

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

Give answer here
 

[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

please do not put JPG Picture files into your post

 

3 Date received

Give answer here
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

Give answer here
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

Give answer here
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

Give answer here
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

Give answer here
 

7 Who is the parking company?

Give answer here

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Give answer here
 

 

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To obtain the vehicle keeper's details using POFA the PPC must meet certain criteria which was created by POPLA (basically the PPC's themselves), one of the criteria is the NTK must be sent to the keeper within 14 days of the event (I won't say 'offence') or they cannot use POFA to create keeper liability - so in your case they have not met the criteria to create keeper liability, so ignore everything (but file it for later reference) unless you get a letter before claim then send a snotty letter point out their error and relax never to hear from them again!

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I think Homer67 meant to say PoFA as opposed to POPLA but it does mean that they cannot pursue you as the keeper only as the driver. Now CEL have an uphill struggle to prove you were the driver since many people have other named drivers on their insurance policy as well as everyone who has a motor policy has the right to drive your car with tour permission. And Courts do not allow the PPCs to assume that the keeper is automatically the driver.

 

So do not appeal as you may inadvertently admit that you were the driver which would mean then that they would be far more likely to take you to Court.  If they don't know who was driving they may well decide not to take you to Court as they would have little chance of winning. So our advice is to avoid contact with them unless they send you a Letter of Claim.

 

In the meantime could you please answer the questions on post 1 plus post up the PCN [both sides] to see what else they have done wrong.

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Thank you @lookinforinfo and @Homer67


More detail and PDF attached. Thanks in advance for your advice on next steps.

 

1 Date of the infringement

12/12/2021
 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

04/01/2022

 

3 Date received

11/01/2021 (due to delays in post!)
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

N (I don't think)

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

Yes - CCTV/ANPR
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

No - only action so far was to complain to Morrisons (whose store I was attending, they came back and said as it was private car park they can't do anything). No further action taken yet. 
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company?

Civil Enforcement

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Butterfly Walk Car Park, Denmark Hill, London, SE5 8RW

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

POPLA

 

 

It's also worth noting that I did actually pay for the parking, however just after the '10minute window' - the machines in the car park were out of use, so I tried to pay on the app whilst in store however it kept failing - but I do eventually have a receipt from 1.44pm for a full hours parking (but admittedly this is outside of the 10min window I am meant to pay in) - I have a photo of one of the signs from the car park as I took it before I went in in order to pay via the app whilst in store.


Thank you.

 

CEL PCN 040122.pdf

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as this was a windscreen ticket ?

its 29- 56 before the NTK must arrive.

they are too soon!

 

dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to CEL Windscreen PCN - Butterfly Walk Car Park, Denmark Hill, London, SE5 8RW - issued more than 14 days after event?

but those are operator pictures 

so its a case of a vanishing PCN, one should have been placed on the windscreen.

 

the NTK is yet to arrive

that scan is of the ticket they should have placed on your windscreen, so its 29-56 await the NTK do NOTHING!

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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@dx100uksorry for my ignorance (I'm new to all this as you can tell!) - how can you tell they are operator pictures? They look to me like stills from CCTV (as they both have time stamps on - (probably not that clear due to the quality of the scan of my letter sorry), at the entry and exit to the car park. Thanks for your help

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Whether it is ANPR or a windscreen ticket, they haven't respected the timescales in either case for keeper liability.

 

Not to mention you paid.  They haven't got a chance!

 

Do you have proof that their machines were knackered?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Your PCN is neither fish nor fowl. It should say at the top that it is a Notice to Driver. It doesn't. As an NTD it should state that you have 28 days from the 12th December to pay. It doesn't as it says that you have 28 days from the date of issue of the PCN. So it does not meet the requirements of PoFA and so is non compliant. It will be interesting to see the date of issue of their Notice to Keeper.

 

If they are trying to say that the PCN was a Notice to Keeper then it fails there too as there is no admittance that CEL is the Creditor nor that they have the ability to transfer liability of the debt from the driver to the keeper. It's a total dogs breakfast.

 

I am surprised that they issued you a ticket since you paid albeit several minutes after their permitted time. 

 

Do absolutely nothing until a Notice to keeper arrives then please post it up here. Do not appeal or contact CEL in any way -or Morrisons for that matter. 

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Hey @FTMDavethank you. Unfortunately I don't have evidence of the machines being out of use.

 

From the replies above, it sounds like I can sit tight and do nothing until I receive a 'Letter to Claim'? Is that right?

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Yep and type in cel in our search of the top red banner and get upto speed 

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Wrong thread ignore me

it is anpr

dX

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

  • dx100uk changed the title to CEL ANPR PCN - Butterfly Walk Car Park, Denmark Hill, London, SE5 8RW - issued more than 14 days after event?

If this place is local to you, is there any chance of you going back and taking photos of the signage and the machines?

 

I know it's a long shot, but a tactic we've seen with these disgusting companies is to deliberately leave broken machines broken so they have excuses to issue their PCNs, so it's not impossible that a machine broken a month ago is still broken.

 

In any case photos of what could be carp signage is always useful.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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  • 2 months later...

Hi all - thanks for your help previously. I’ve today received a Notice of Debt recovery regarding this parking charge, from Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd.

 

As you all advised before, I still don’t need to do anything until if/when I receive a letter of claim, is that correct?

 

thank you

 

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