Jump to content


Flaws in Defence counterclaim Help


simeon1964
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 385 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Now that the dust has settled on filing the Particulars of Counterclaim, my thoughts are turning to the builder's solicitor.

 

Simeon, did you send the e-mail I suggested on your other thread to take the wee wee out of the solicitor about costs?

 

You're dealing with a very aggressive individual who constantly tried to unnerve you the day before the hearing and lied without actually technically lying and pretended you would have to pay two and a half grand in costs.  This behaviour is likely to continue in the lead up to the next hearing and I think it's important there is a shot across the bows and you make it clear you won't be easily intimidated.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

I did not, neither have I responded to him on that matter and the matter, he wanted me to explain why I have not responded to his texts and phone calls.

 

After sending him copies of the Particularised counterclaim on Monday, he replies " I have asked you the same question several times. Please can you urgently respond."

This is how far I have gone with him. I have not responded to that as as well,  I am  thinking of  how to go about it,  if ever he's going to get my response.

 

But I  previously asked him to agree with me to extend the deadline and send me copy of the order of the 10 Jan. because I didn't remember all the details, he declined by sending email to answer his question first, probably surprised that I met the deadline.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@simeon1964  

 

can you just remind us what texts and phone calls of his he is complaining that you haven't responded to?

 

I ask because if it is only to do with his questions from the original thread about why you ignored his requests to cease enforcement of the original default judgment against his client, then he just might have a valid point...   (See my post #178 in the original thread.  I think it quite possible that you might have been responsible for - or at least contributed to - any confusion over enforcement of the original order.  Although to be fair to you, you may have been misled by early suggestions on that original thread that the set-aside application was just a bluff.).

 

If that is all he's complaining about then I don't think it is necessary to respond to him at all and I think I'd ignore him.  However, if you feel it necessary to respond to him I would simply say something along the lines that all you did was to lawfully attempt enforcement of the default judgment correctly awarded in your favour against his client on (insert date), such judgment being awarded because of his client's wilful ignoring of an earlier court order.  Until his client's set-aside was granted you were perfectly entitled to enforce the order that had been made in your favour.  But I don't think I'd bother to get involved in what FTMDave previously described as "letter tennis" -  it's a distraction.

 

But if he's complaining about other questions and texts to you, can you remind us what they are, or were?  Until you tell us we can't suggest whether you should respond or not.

 

As regards FTMDave's suggestion about sending a letter to the solicitor complaining about their threats about costs etc., I'm not sure I agree.  I'm not sure it would be productive and I suspect it would be like water off a duck's back to the solicitor.  But if you want to complain to him you could send something off to the effect that as a litigant in person you consider his conduct in issuing threats to you regarding costs etc to be unfair and to be in potential breach of 1.2 and 1.4 of the Code of Conduct for Solicitors, and that if he does not stop harrassing you, that you will complain to the SRA.

 

BUT DON'T SEND ANYTHING OFF TO THE OTHER SIDE'S SOLICITOR UNTIL YOU'VE HAD SOME INPUT FROM OTHER POSTERS ON HERE!

 

MY SUGGESTIONS MIGHT BE COMPLETELY WRONG!

 

 

Edited by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I will not.

Here is what he says "

In advance of the hearing, please can you explain why between 26 November and 16 December you ignored 4 text messages and 2 telephone calls which were expressed as urgent in respect of the enforcement action you commenced. I look forward to hearing from you." Sent 05/01/2022

 

I do not know why I should engage in telephone conversation and texts with claimant's solicitor when he could have written me. When he did write I responded immediately.

 

Edited by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think having different opinions is a problem on a forum.

 

In fact I'd go further, often different opinions are essential to thrash out how best to go forward in a legal dispute.

 

But be that as it may, Manxman in Exile's point is extremely important.  Was the solicitor's moaning simply connected to these four text messages and two attempted calls, or is there anything else?

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right - so are you confirming that all he is complaining about is that you did not respond to his 'phone calls and text messages back in November and December when he was trying to get you to cease enforcement of the original default order against his client?  Is that all he is complaining about?

 

If that is all he's complaining about now, then I don't see why it's still an issue for him.  It's all water under the bridge since the court granted his client's set-aside application back in December and I would have thought is a dead issue now.

 

Also, his message that you quote in #192 was sent before the last hearing - wasn't it? - and asked for a response before that hearing.  So now that that hearing has come and gone, is he still making the same complaint now, after the hearing?

 

I think that if the above is all he's complaining about I'd be inclined to ignore him and let the case follow its natural path.  But others may have a different view - I don't know.  If he's complaining about something else, well what is it?  You're the person he's complaining to!

 

@FTMDave - yeah I agree.  Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion and I think it's right that simeon appreciates that there may be valid differences of opinion as to the best way to proceed.  There may not be a clear-cut answer.  As regards (1) responding to the other side's solicitor's moaning about simeon's failure to reply to his messages and (2) simeon making his own complaint about the solicitor's conduct towards him - I simply don't know.

 

I'd be inclined to ignore both, but I don't know enough to know if simeon is under some sort of obligation to respond to requests and questions from the other side's solicitors, or whether he should just leave all communication to the court process.  I simply don't know enough about how the court works to be able to say either way.

 

Question re costs  (I'd like this to remain a separate post please)

 

Can somebody who knows more than me explain to what extent simeon may or may not be liable to pay the other side's costs?  Because I don't understand the position here.

 

I'm aware that the normal rule is that if you lose a case then the other side's costs can be awarded against you.  But I'm also aware that in some courts (eg small claims or however it's called) that you won't have costs awarded against you even if you lose, apart from in exceptional circumstances.

 

So in this case, simeon is claiming in excess of £16000.  If he were to lose the case, what is his exposure to costs here?

 

(Apologies for a really stupid question but I'm asking because I don't know!  And maybe simeon doesn't either... )

Link to post
Share on other sites

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks.

 

So having quickly looked through that second link, @simeon1964 needs to be fully aware that he might be liable to pay the other side's costs if he loses this fast track case?

 

(The first link is blocked for me.  Is that a problem with the link or is my AV software not liking it?)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Problem with our link but im sure your aware of what Fast Track entails :wink:

 

Fixed hover your mouse over the word.

 

 

 

.

  • Thanks 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion, and just my opinion.

 

The solicitor stated that simeon was uncooperative and should have stopped enforcement - yet when asked for a short extension to the counterclaim drafting deadline refused.  No problem with that.  The solicitor was right.  Both actions were in the interest of the builder, who is the solicitor's client.

 

However, I think it is particularity aggressive of this individual to try to undermine simeon on a Sunday before the hearing with a mountain of e-mails, and try to make out simeon would end up paying two and a half grand for the hearing.  The solicitor is still moaning on about simeon not replying to texts before a hearing which is long over, water under the bridge as MiE correctly says.

 

If it were me I would give the solicitor a taste of their own medicine.  This is because:

   1.  the aggressive stuff will start again on the way to the next hearing so it's important to show simeon won't be bullied;

   2.  simeon has shown weakness (understandably) by asking for an extension;

   3.  I've had personal experience of pompous solicitors trying it on with me and then them being flabbergasted and out of their depth when I fought back and for once they didn't get their own way.  So I would send -

 

 

Dear XXXXX,

 

I refer to the tsunami of e-mails I have received from you recently and especially on the Sunday before the recent set aside hearing , most of them totally unconnected with the matters in dispute between your client & myself.

 

However, I am writing in the spirit of cooperation that you suggested, to point out that your administration department made a mistake that Sunday and accidentally e-mailed the bill for your client for the set aside hearing to me instead.

 

That is no problem for me, I realise such mistakes are easy to make in the era of e-mail.

 

Please kindly note though, that when you carry out work on behalf of clients, that the addresses to be billed are the addresses of your clients.

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Others may disagree, which is fine.  It's up to simeon at the end of the day.

 

Sending this won't win the case or lose it, and not sending it won't win the case or lose it.  I just think it would be a slight advantage for simeon to show he won't be bullied and to put the solicitor on the back foot.

  • Thanks 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

If we think it'll be to simeon's advantage to respond to the other solicitor - and I don't disagree with that - then I might word it slightly differently.  Let me think about it and I'll post something later.

 

If I were going to send him something I'd send something like this:

 

"Dear xxxxx

 

I refer to the excessive number of emails [and text messages or whatever] that you have recently sent me, and especially those sent on the Sunday before the recent set-aside hearing, [Is that accurate and correct simeon?] most of which do not appear to be directly connected to the dispute between your client and myself.

 

I would like to remind you that as a litigant in person I am already at a disadvantage in this matter, and that I consider your conduct in bombarding and harassing me with emails and texts that are only tenuously connected to the dispute at hand to be an attempt to further disadvantage me unfairly, and to be in potential breach of sections 1.2 and 1.4 of the Code of Conduct for Solicitors.  (Those sections impose a duty of fairness on solicitors in dealings with both their clients AND others).

 

If you do not cease these messages which seem to be solely intended to bully and intimidate me, I shall have no hesitation in complaining to the Solicitors Regulation Authority [or whatever they are called].

 

I do of course remain willing to engage with you on behalf of your client in any genuine attempt by you both to resolve this matter amicably.

 

Yours sincerely,"

 

[The next bit is optional… ]

 

"PS – Your billing department appears to have sent me a copy of a bill intended for your client.  This seems rather unprofessional to me and I would have thought might even be a breach of client confidentiality.  You may wish to speak to them."

 

But I'd want input from others before deciding to send it.  I really don't know if it's a good idea or not...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Manxman in Exile, you don't mess about!  I was in for some light sarcasm, but you're giving the solicitor both barrels!

 

I think it is important something is sent to put the solicitor on the back foot.

 

See what others think over the weekend, and especially it's up to simeon who will know exactly how things stand with the solicitor and the appropriate level of the fightback.

  • Haha 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Consider deleting the PS about the bill. Let the solicitor chase his client for the unpaid bill.

 

Make sure the other party knows in about 6 weeks time that the bill was sent to you, perhaps with a 'raised eyebrow' type comment about the amount. 

Edited by mantis shrimp
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

@mantis shrimp  -  Apart from not being sure about sending a letter at all(!) I think I agree about omitting the PS.

 

The problem is that I don't understand quite what happened there.  (I readily admit to a lot of difficulty in following much of what simeon tells us... ).  I'm not sure if the other side's solicitor sent their client's bill to simeon by mistake, or whether the solicitor sent a mock-up to simeon to demonstrate the level of costs mounting up in an attempt to intimidate him into withdrawing the case.

 

I think FTMDave might have a better understanding of exactly what happened there than I do... 

 

=========================================================================

 

@FTMDave  -  I quite like the letter!  🙂  But I don't know if it's a good idea to send it!!!   😲

 

Personally I'd be inclined to leave it and let the case run its natural course.  I don't know if it would be appropriate to send such a letter or not.  I wouldn't want simeon to overstep the mark or do anything to make his position in this case any worse than it already might be.  In particular I would not want the other side to have any grounds to complain to the judge (although perhaps simeon has grounds to complain to the judge?.)

 

Also, I'd always understood that you could only complain to the SRA about a solicitor if you were his client.  But I'm pretty certain that I've read somewhere that 1.2 and 1.4 of the Code of Conduct require a solicitor to act fairly towards their clients and the court, AND "others", which I assume in this case would include simeon.  But whether that is 100% correct or not I simply don't know, and I don't know if it would be "improper" to complain to the SRA in the middle of a case or not.  I suppose simeon could threaten to do so after the case has been decided.  I just don't know what course would be best for simeon and I wouldn't want him led off in the wrong direction.

 

So I'm in two minds about sending a letter at all.  I'd be happier for someone with more knowledge and experience of court procedure and the conduct of trials than I have to say whether it is a good idea or not.

 

The other problem I have (and I'm not sure how to put this without risking hurting simeon's feelings - but I'm saying it in his best interests) I've looked back at some of simeon's previous threads and there would appear to be a recurring theme of aborted court claims and miscommunication with legal advisors (eg a direct access barrister he engaged) that might be re-appearing in this case.

 

I appreciate that English is not simeons' first language and that he has been seriously ill recently, but I'm a bit concerned that he does seem to get the wrong end of the stick a lot and I'm a bit worried that all we really know about this case has been filtered through him.

 

Apologies to simeon for saying so, but without having first-hand knowledge of all aspects of this case, I just hope he's not digging himself deeper into a hole...  (And I am saying that in his best interests).

 

Anyway, I'll be keen to see what the defence aginst the counterclaim is.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see MiE's point about whether to write to the other side's lawyer. It isn't like playing hardball with a firm representing a PPC where they're a known quantity to us, as in being not very good at their job. and there isn't as much at stake.

 

But for legal experience, you probably need @Andyorch.

 

HB

  • Thanks 1

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally wouldn't send it....regarded as tit for tat once litigation is in process...nor are you legally required to converse with the opposing party during the process unless it vis a mediation or the court has directed it.

 

Save anything  further for statement's or skeletons if directed by the court.

 

Andy.

 

 

.

  • Thanks 2

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Manxman in exile said:

The other problem I have (and I'm not sure how to put this without risking hurting simeon's feelings - but I'm saying it in his best interests) I've looked back at some of simeon's previous threads and there would appear to be a recurring theme of aborted court claims and miscommunication with legal advisors (eg a direct access barrister he engaged) that might be re-appearing in this case.

 

If you are helping to better resolve  my problems, i feel  no-way about it. You mentioned previous threads before, by all means do, if it fixes a the puzzles. I do not see any reason why any of my previous threads should prevent your involvement in this one.  Every case is different, this is different. If there is anything you want to know do ask me. Sometime trouble comes to you without seeking one. This is typical example.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Debate over.  Andyorch has vast experience in these matters so it's best to follow his advice.

 

I was just annoyed with the solicitor and wanted him to get some of his own medicine.

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 385 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...