Cabot claimform - old Lloyds credit card debt

[mikanosuk11]

My friend is a user of this group and advised I reach out for help. They have given me some limited knowledge, but I would really appreciate someone give me some quick direction.

 

Essentially I had a credit card worth £6000. My original agreement was for a lloyds credit card in 2005 and stopped paying in 2008 when my business fell in the recession.

 

Between 11/12/12 - 5/9/17 i paid cabot financial £10 pm. Eventually i stopped paying them and they have been harassing me. My friend advised i just ignore.

 

I received letters dated 19 nov 2021 i thought they were just usual harassing circulars.

 

Today I received a court claim letter court dated 30/12/21.

 

There was no title written Pre-action-protocol on the letter dated 19 nov 2021, seemed very misleading to me, i thought they had to do that and had to make this clear?

 

However I accept responsibility that this was my fault, i only told my friend it was one page i received, i got confused. i never replied, i thought it was more junk from them. Now i don’t know what to do.

 

i’m aware i need to submit a defence on the money claims site, but i’m not sure what to write? And what else to do. Believe i only have 28 days to submit something online.

 

Shall i still reply to the PAP now?

 

Should i be requesting my CCA?

 

i have read a bit and got and idea of what to do, im just not sure in what order. if someone can help me please? Do i have any chance here or shall i try and borrow some money and try to settle?

 

i have attached the pack received from the 19th nov 2021 and then a separate pdf of court letters dated 30 dec 2021. i hope i have redacted correctly.

 

Thank you in advance

Letters before court1-compressed.pdf

court letters1.pdf

[dx100uk]

 

please complete the above

[mikanosuk11]

Name of the Claimant ? Cabot Financial (uk) Limited

 

Date of issue –  30/12/21

 

Date for service - 17/1/22

 

date to submit defence - 31/1/22

 

Particulars of Claim

What is the claim for –

1. By an agreement between Lloyds TSB and the defendant on or around 24/ 01/ 2005 ref xxxxxx Lloyds TSB agreed to issue the defendant with a credit card.

 

2.The defendant failed to make the minimum payments due.

 

3.The agreement was terminated following the service of a default notice.

 

4.The agreement was assigned to the claimant.

 

The claimant therefore claims 1.5546.36

2. costs

 

What is the total value of the claim? £6101.36
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes But it was not titled as such. 

 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No 

 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? Yes 

 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? No 

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? I haven’t checked 

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned to debt purchaser 

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I cant remember, I believe so
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? I cant remember, I believe so
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? I don’t know

Why did you cease payments? Couldn’t pay anymore 

 

What was the date of your last payment? 7/9/17
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No 

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No

 

 

Thank you!

 

i have completed CPR and CCA requests and will post immediately.

 

Edited January 6 by dx100uk
formatting

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.
Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...
You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.
..
get a CCA Request running to the claimant

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/

..

Leave the £1 PO unsigned and uncrossed

.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

on BOTH type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............

 

[mikanosuk11]

Thank you very much

 

We have just completed AOS correctly:

A claim was issued against you on 30/12/2021

Your acknowledgment of service was submitted on 06/01/2022 at 04:45:11

 

My friend has done the CCA and CPR 31.14 and we will post tomorrow

i will make a note of the defence date cut off

i will come back here as soon as i hear anything, i didnt keep any letters so far

We are having a look for similar cases here to find a defence because im not sure what to put

 

Thanks for your help

[dx100uk]

dont worry about not kept stuff

dont worry about nothing for defence back by then.

 

use our enhanced google searc box.

 

claimform card

 

loads of threads here

twill be our std generic holding/no paperwork defence which is almost in every like thread.

[mikanosuk11]

Thank you very much for your help

 

i haven't heard back as of yet but as you suggest, i wont wait, we will have a look around and make sure i submit the defence before 31st

[dx100uk]

pop it up here 1st

 

dx

 

[mikanosuk11]

Thank you!

 

Can i ask what does this mean - 

Date for service - 17/1/22?

[dx100uk]

acknowledgement of service - you've done that already 

[mikanosuk11]

Sorry to bother but is there a specific way of searching for such things? i am just searching through everything inside Debt Collection Agencies is that correct?

 

i found these threads, am i on the right lines and are these enough of an outline to go off of? And i should just personalise this to my cicumstances?

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/443269-cabotmortimer-claimform-old-new-day-aqua-card-debt/#comment-5146014

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/432443-cabotmortimer-claimform-old-newday-marbles-credit-card-debt/#comment-5098232

 

And i found a thread with all of these posted inside

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/156156-help-mum-being-taken.html#post1665130

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/126111-cl-finance-ltd-recieved-4.html#post1350484

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/121774-lloyds-tsb-credit-card-5.html#post1461198

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/144007-help-amex-no-cca-3.html#post1549360

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/160703-urgent-help-needed-robinson.html#post1721582

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/161469-1st-credit-animal-2.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/157973-welcome-fianance-court-case-4.html#post1704890

 

also

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/404591-backdoor-pra-ccj-old-lloyds-credit-card-debt-sent-to-pulled-down-house-site/page/2/#comments

 

And 

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/212949-urgent-help-needed-with-defense-weightmansequidebt/#comment-2583281

 

And

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/420714-lowell-claim-form-old-cat-debt-claim-discontinued/#comment-5044541

 

Thank you very much

 

[dx100uk]

Yep no paperwork/holding defence

 

use our enhanced google search box

 

claimform card

[mikanosuk11]

Thank you very much DX100UK, that helped a lot.

 

POC

 

1. By an agreement between Lloyds TSB and the defendant on or around 24/ 01/ 2005 ref xxxxxx Lloyds TSB agreed to issue the defendant with a credit card.

 

2.The defendant failed to make the minimum payments due.

 

3.The agreement was terminated following the service of a default notice.

 

4.The agreement was assigned to the claimant.

 

The claimant therefore claims 1.5546.36

2. costs

 

DEFENCE

 

1.     The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 

  

2.     Paragraph 1 is noted. It is accepted I have in the past had agreements with Lloyds TSB. I do not recall the precise details or agreement nor the claimant either, having failed to provide an agreement/account number within its particulars of claim and have therefore sought verification from the claimant.

 

3.     Paragraph 2 is noted but until such time the claimant can clarify the agreement account number any breach has yet to be proven.   

 

4.     I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served by either the Claimant or Lloyds TSB pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

5. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any Notice of default served.

 

6.     It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant. The Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of the Agreement/Assignment/Default notice or Termination requested by CPR 31. 14.

  

Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement ; and

b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

c) Show or evidence a Default Notice /Notice of Sums in Arrears,

d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

7.     As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

8.     On the 5th of January 2022 I requested to The Claimants Solicitors, Mortimer Clarke by way of a CPR 31.14 copies of the documents referred to within the Claimants particulars to establish what the claim is for. Mortimer Clarke have failed to fulfil my CPR 31:14 request.

 

9.     On the 5th of January 2022 I made a section 78 legal request to the claimant for a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement. The claimant has as of 27/01/22 failed to comply.

 

10.  By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

End.

___________________________________

 

I did find this in some defences, but I’m not sure if this ‘PAP’ failed to comply:

'The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC'

 

I read this 3. And it seems they did, so I should leave out?

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/debt-pap.pdf

 

Edited January 27 by dx100uk
poc added

[dx100uk]

i've inserted their poc in your above post for easy ref.

 

2.+ 3.... they do state an a/c number in their poc

 

can you scan up what you think might be their PAPLOC only the front page(s) we dont need the full reply pack with the I&C sheet and questionaire, however confirm those were  sent 

 

 

 

[mikanosuk11]

This is exactly what i got in the post, what i attached in the first post. i don't have any other letters from them. Sadly i never kept what they previously posted me because i thought they were just nuisance letters. However they were 1 page letters 'call us now' type of things. Nothing like this.

 

This is all i ever had from them before this letter/pack 19th November, claim 30 December. It didn't actually say Pre Action Protocol anywhere but i'm not sure if it should.

 

Subsequently i have had a response from Mortlake yesterday saying they have passed on my requests to the claimant blah blah. No other news from the claimant.

 

So i shall remove '/account number' from the defence in that case.

 

Thank you

Letters before court1-compressed (2).pdf

Edited January 27 by mikanosuk11

[dx100uk]

Thats a letter of claim reply pack.. So you did get one. Though yes i agree no letter headed letter of claim.

 

Dx

[mikanosuk11]

Thank you. Ok so i will submit the above defence minus account reference section tonight, unless any objections/changes?

 

DEFENCE

 

1.     The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 

  

2.     Paragraph 1 is noted. It is accepted I have in the past had agreements with Lloyds TSB. I do not recall the precise details or agreement nor the claimant either, having failed to provide an agreement within its particulars of claim and have therefore sought verification from the claimant.

 

3.     Paragraph 2 is noted but until such time the claimant can clarify the agreement account number any breach has yet to be proven.   

 

4.     I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served by either the Claimant or Lloyds TSB pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

5. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any Notice of default served.

 

6.     It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant. The Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of the Agreement/Assignment/Default notice or Termination requested by CPR 31. 14.

  

Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement ; and

b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

c) Show or evidence a Default Notice /Notice of Sums in Arrears,

d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

7.     As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

8.     On the 5th of January 2022 I requested to The Claimants Solicitors, Mortimer Clarke by way of a CPR 31.14 copies of the documents referred to within the Claimants particulars to establish what the claim is for. Mortimer Clarke have failed to fulfil my CPR 31:14 request.

 

9.     On the 5th of January 2022 I made a section 78 legal request to the claimant for a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement. The claimant has as of 27/01/22 failed to comply.

 

10.  By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[dx100uk]

Looks ok to me

past 4pm anyway and its not due till/by 4pm monday 

 

Dx

[mikanosuk11]

Thank you for all your help

 

Yes i am just nervous leaving it last minute in case i forget or something drastic happens. i will wait until Sunday

[Andyorch]

Quote

2.     Paragraph 1 is noted. It is accepted I have in the past had agreements with Lloyds TSB. I do not recall the precise details or agreement nor the claimant either, having failed to provide an agreement within its particulars of claim and have therefore sought verification from the claimant.

 

3.     Paragraph 2 is noted but until such time the claimant can clarify the agreement account number any breach has yet to be proven.   

 

They have or you have provided the agreement number within the particulars ?

 

Andy.

 

 

 

.

[dx100uk]

hey andy good spot...

the typed poc isnt the same as the POC on the actual claimform scan in post 1 (urm why do we repeatedly ask for it exactly in the sticky) 

their is no number!!

 

put those lines back..

 

dx

 

[Andyorch]

From the claim form upload

 

1. By an agreement between Lloyds TSB and the defendant on or around 24/ 01/ 2005 Lloyds TSB agreed to issue the defendant with a credit card.

 

From the sticky completed by Mikanosuk

 

What is the claim for –

1. By an agreement between Lloyds TSB and the defendant on or around 24/ 01/ 2005 (  ref xxxxxx  this is not on the claim I thought I would add it to help the claimants claim ) Lloyds TSB agreed to issue the defendant with a credit card.

 

 

[mikanosuk11]

Hi and thank you

 

On the 4th page of the pap, they have written the card number and titled it agreement number i have just noticed it yes. But i removed that wording from point 2

 

i noticed point 3, so shall i change to:

3.     Paragraph 2 is noted but until such time the claimant can clarify the agreement if any breach has yet to be proven.   

 

or just remove this point 3 as below i have mentioned my request for the agreement?

 

i dont understand about the lines and the poc. but i wrote it exactly as it was in the form in red?

 

Yes i see they have not put what the claim is for, so should i then actually put back about the account number in points 2 and 3?

 

Sorry ive got a bit confused now

[dx100uk]

yes.

 

the simple answer is that in the court claim poc, they have not stated an A/C number when they should, thus they could rock up later with any old agreement/paperwork as long as its a card aagreement and say its correct as long as it has all the other criteria.

 

sorry my bad

put those lines back...

[mikanosuk11]

No need to apologise! I am extremely grateful for both your help

 

Gosh very good attention to detail going on here

 

Great thank you, i will put them back as below

 

Good evening to you

 

DEFENCE

 

1.     The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 

  

2.     Paragraph 1 is noted. It is accepted I have in the past had agreements with Lloyds TSB. I do not recall the precise details or agreement nor the claimant either, having failed to provide an agreement/account number within its particulars of claim and have therefore sought verification from the claimant.

 

3.     Paragraph 2 is noted but until such time the claimant can clarify the agreement account number any breach has yet to be proven.   

 

4.     I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served by either the Claimant or Lloyds TSB pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

5. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any Notice of default served.

 

6.     It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant. The Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of the Agreement/Assignment/Default notice or Termination requested by CPR 31. 14.

  

Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement ; and

b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

c) Show or evidence a Default Notice /Notice of Sums in Arrears,

d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

7.     As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

8.     On the 5th of January 2022 I requested to The Claimants Solicitors, Mortimer Clarke by way of a CPR 31.14 copies of the documents referred to within the Claimants particulars to establish what the claim is for. Mortimer Clarke have failed to fulfil my CPR 31:14 request.

 

9.     On the 5th of January 2022 I made a section 78 legal request to the claimant for a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement. The claimant has as of 27/01/22 failed to comply.

 

10.  By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.