EVRi Lost insured item of £200 - refused refund - Clainform issued - **SETTLED AT MEDIATION**

[BankFodder]

Okay standard stuff.

They filed a defence at the last moment. You will receive in the post soon and then please post it up in PDF format

[Whitey_AFC]

Here is the defence, I have until 21st March to fill out the forms I received in the post which I think I'll go down the mediation route. 

 

That being said and reading the mediation form and agreeing to be flexible ... I'm willing to be flexible in the fact I'm not taking Hermes to court and happy to settle for the money I am owed as well as the court fee and any compensation.

 

 

Doc_20220307_092013 (1).pdf

Edited March 7, 2022 by Whitey_AFC

[BankFodder]

The defence which you have posted runs to 5 pages but stops midsentence partway down page 5.

[BankFodder]

????

[Whitey_AFC]

That's the same as on my paper Defence and Counterclaim copy ...

 

It stops at 'The Claimant opted to increase the level of compensation for the Parcel and therefore, pursuant to the terms'

 

Surely that in itself is either an error by MCOL or a failure on the defence ? 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Whitey_AFC

[BankFodder]

Well you a better phone the court and complain to them. I suppose you could try and contact Chloe Higgs who is their legal person and tell her about it as well.

I suppose the problem is that the defence was sent to you by Hermes and so part of it was damaged in transit – and no doubt it is on their prohibited items list and also was an insured

[Whitey_AFC]

Chloe Higgs is she Hermes side ? 

[BankFodder]

Yes, if you search the forum using "Chloe Higgs" as the search term, you may find several references. If you consult one of the defences which has been filed by Hermes then you may get better details as to where she is.
I don't have any more information to give you. But if you are able to contact her then I expect that she would be able to sort out a copy of the defence for you.

I expect that it is a complete the standard defence – but we may as well get a look at it anyway

[Whitey_AFC]

Rung the court and they advised they can't advise .... Told me try MCOL got transferred but 5pm cut off so unlikely going to get my call answered in time. 

 

I guess this will just be another nail in the coffin of what is already a ropey defence if I'm honest! 

 

I think if it went to court and a judge saw a half arsed \ incomplete defence he'd surely grin! 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Whitey_AFC

[BankFodder]

It depends who's fault it is.

The court's or Hermes'

 

[Whitey_AFC]

Looks like Hermes have won this one! Upon ringing MCOL they advised my claim is only showing as me claiming £1.44 ....

 

I've logged it and it shows just £36.44 - £35 being the fee and £1.44 for the compensation !! 

 

So unlikely now I can do anything as she's advised to amend it will cost £108! 

 

 

God knows what's happened when I submitted as I would have put £200 somewhere within the MCOL claim and it just seems to have replaced that with JUST the compensation amount! 

 

I literally feel sick now being told that and knowing Hermes have got away with this one! 

 

Doc1.pdf

[BankFodder]

They haven't gotten away with it.

Please monitor is thread for a reply this afternoon

[BankFodder]

However, you can withdraw the claim and start a new one which might be a cheaper way to go

[Manxman in exile]

If the suggestion is that the OP withdraws this claim and submits a new one claiming the correct amount, is there an issue at all regarding the question of "damage" to the item - as opposed to it just being lost?

 

On 30/12/2021 at 19:04, Whitey_AFC said:

So I'll cut a long story short ....

 

I sent an item back mid/late November after around 7 days I checked the tracking and it hadn't moved.

 

Messaged the eBay buyer who confirmed it's not arrived.

 

The following week got onto Hermes, had to wait 48 hours for the depot be searched as may have fallen onto netting. 48 hours later got back to Hermes and filed a claims form.

 

About 20 days or so later after doing so they've come back to say that because the item was damaged on arrival and the item I sent was on the prohibited list they are refusing to pay out and will only refund the £11 postage/insurance that I took out.

 

The parcel was an aquarium LED light unit, it contains no glass parts, I packaged it extremely well and stuck multiple sticky labels on the parcel when I took it the parcel shop so all sides were covered but somehow it's 'lost' 

 

I've had a good route around this site and seen plenty of people who have sent letters to Hermes and followed up with taking them to MCOL with success and so am now thinking of perusing this one myself. 

 

Staff Account Marybeth Smith via E-mail01/12/2021 12.43 PM

 

Thanks for getting in touch with us about parcel number xxxxxxx

 

We're so sorry that despite an extensive investigation, we have not been able to locate your parcel.  We appreciate that this is not the outcome you were hoping for, however, we do offer cover to assist in this situation and we will happily support you through the process of making a claim.

 

During our claims process, if your parcel is located, we will endeavour to deliver this to your recipient as quickly as possible.

 

Should you wish to submit your claim, please complete the following online form:

 

Lost Claim Form

 

We thank you for your time and patience on this matter and ask that you provide the required information within 14 days, so we can resolve this as quickly as possible for you. We aim to process all claims within 28 working days of receipt.

 

Non-Compensated & Prohibited Items

As a self-serve company, we do everything possible to encourage customers to check our lists of non-compensated and prohibited items and we try to make this easy and transparent so that customers understand from the outset what we can and can’t carry. Certain items such as liquids are on the prohibited list because they are more likely to become damaged than others and therefore require a specialist carrier.

 

Please note: should you choose to issue a refund before this claim is finalised then you must do so at your own risk. If the parcel is located it will be delivered to the intended recipient and the claim will be closed

 

Kind regards,

Marybeth2638

 

Hermes Customer Services

Staff Account Farhan Hussain via E-mail23/12/2021 08.44 AM

Thank you for submitting the required information for your claim. I’m sorry for any inconvenience caused by this situation so I would also like to thank you for your patience while we reviewed your claim.

I understand how frustrating it can be for both you and your recipient when a parcel isn’t delivered as expected. When issues arise, we will always seek to remedy the situation and we are happy to pay up to the level of cover selected by our customers, for included items.

Unfortunately, we are unable to proceed with your claim, since the items contained in your parcel are non-compensated items that cannot be claimed for. You can see our full list of non-compensated and prohibited items here.

As a self-serve company, we do everything possible to encourage customers to check our lists of non-compensated and prohibited items and we try to make this easy and transparent so that customers understand from the outset what we can and can’t carry.

Items made of or containing lighting are on the non-compensated list because they are more fragile than others and therefore are more susceptible to damage. Our Carry Guide states that lighting items can be sent through the Hermes network however, in the event of the parcel sustaining damage or getting lost, compensation will not be awarded.

However, as this parcel was damaged whilst in our care, I have processed a full postage refund for the amount of £11.00 back to your original payment method. Please allow up to 5 working days for this to be received.

If you have any queries regarding another parcel in the future, please contact your Hermes Customer Service Team and we’ll be happy to help.
 
Kind regards,

 
Customer Service Advisor
Hermes Send Claims Department

 

What I find rather interesting is the Hermes booking site ... Which appears to stop senders from taking out insurance for certain items which are on the so called 'Prohibited List' however ... My item when booking didn't occur this, had it then I would have found an alternative method. 

 

Not only that but the response from Hermes Claims department made out the item had somehow been delivered but arrived damaged ? 

 

"However, as this parcel was damaged whilst in our care, I have processed a full postage refund for the amount of £11.00 back to your original payment method. Please allow up to 5 working days for this to be received."

 

I've never claimed or spoken of damage to the item, I was merely chasing the location of it and the fact it's been lost within Hermes network.

 

As I read the first communication from Marybeth Smith, dated 1st December, Hermes are saying they lost the parcel.

 

Yes - the second communication from Farhan Hussain dated 23rd December does say "However, as this parcel was damaged whilst in our care... ", but I don't think he's actually saying it has been damaged.  That just reads to me like either a typo in the text or a template response that hasn't been edited properly.  Other than that one email, is there anything else from Hermes confirming it was damaged as opposed to lost?

 

Maybe it makes no difference (I'm not sure that it does) but if the OP is going to make a new claim after withdrawing the first one, it would seem to me to be sensible to make sure that the claim is as accurate as possible.  All the OP really knows is that the parcel was not delivered and that he has two emails: the first confirming it was lost; the second suggesting that it may have been damaged.

 

I'd have wanted confirmation from Hermes as to whether (a) it had been lost or (b) it had been damaged or (c) they didn't know.  Of course it's possible the OP has sought such confirmation but nothing more has been forthcoming from Hermes.

 

Just one other point - the truncated defence from Hermes in #52 and the extract from the Particulars of Claim in #61 both seem to refer to a contract claim only.  Doesn't this claim go beyond the contract?  Whether lost or damaged isn't negligence an alternative?

 

[BankFodder]

I'm sorry but the particulars of claim you have put up is unreadable.

I think we are at least entitled to have documents put up in a decent readable format – please would you upload the document in PDF format – single file multi page.

[Whitey_AFC]

Parc.pdf

 

So I only noticed this or was made aware of the error when I called up to ask about the missing defence on page 5 .... Apparently because Hermes did this online that is why it's missing, apparently it only gives you so many lines \ characters for a defence input and so they'll have be stopped from typing it out in full.

 

I cannot for the life of my understand how on earth I've made the error on the the claim though, the women advised me I'm literally claiming £1.44 and the £35.00 fee. Although my particulars do state the £200 ... I'm guessing IF i now accept mediation the mediator will just look to get me back the £1.44 and £35.00 fee the £200 for the actual item would not be something I can pursue due to my error. 

 

They also advised any amendments to this now would cost me £108.00! obviously that's over half of the item value so I can't justify paying that. I did ask can I not cancel this one off and resubmit but now I'm thinking is there a deadline in which these cases need to be submitted AND can I legally cancel it off and resubmit when it's already at a defence stage ...... 

 

I honestly feel gutted rite now and feel like Hermes have now won already due to a very stupid error on my part

[BankFodder]

Well clearly you have inserted the interest figure of £1.44 instead of the full claim figure.

I'm sure you appreciate that it's a very careless mistake.

However, as you have paid the fee, you may as well take it to mediation and then explained that it is an error and very clearly it is an error because if they read through the claim it is apparent to any rational person.

Also you can point out that they have not drawn the attention to it in the defence and that if they won't meet your demands are mediation then you will simply go to court and you will ask the court to exercise its jurisdiction to amend the sum claimed because regardless of the figure that is being sought, the substantive issues are exactly the same.

I suggest that you start taking more care in the future

And incidentally, it shows how stupid Hermes are because it would have been easy for them simply to settle the claim as stated including your costs and they would have brought an end to it all and they would have had a good laugh

[Whitey_AFC]

 

My worry is that IF I do go ahead with that now the mediator will likely see I'm only claiming £1.44 despite the particulars of claim stating otherwise and like you say the defence not mentioning it. 

 

So if I was to say 'I'm not willing to budge and wish for the full amount to be paid' This will be agreed and I'll get just the £36.44

 

OR do I cancel this one off - Restart the process from scratch and pay £35 for the correct claim to be submitted. 

 

I agree it's an error on my behalf! But I honestly would have thought that someone may have brought it to my attention at MCOL's end when they were clearly processing it all etc. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Whitey_AFC

[BankFodder]

Don't worry – we have had worse than this happened – but not much.

[Whitey_AFC]

And how did those work out ? I mean if I was to get a fair mediator on the day then likely the chances are the full amount would be sought. However although they are independent and this whole process being new to me I'm not sure. 

 

I honestly feel sick to the stomach now knowing I got this far and now it's on a knife edge! Had Hermes not been so bitter in the first place and accepted the loss of my parcel instead of trying to worm out of it then I wouldn't have ever needed to go down this route in the first place! 

Edited March 8, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[BankFodder]

By referring to "a fair mediator", you are showing that you don't understand mediation at all.
The mediator is not a judge or decision-maker.
The mediator somebody who carries messages between you.

You clearly haven't done your reading because there are some excellent summaries of the mediation process involving Hermes on the sub- forum.

 

[Whitey_AFC]

5 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

By referring to "a fair mediator", you are showing that you don't understand mediation at all.
The mediator is not a judge or decision-maker.
The mediator somebody who carries messages between you.

You clearly haven't done your reading because there are some excellent summaries of the mediation process involving Hermes on the sub- forum.

 

 

You say this however upon reading the mediation cases most of which I read were Hermes related ... It seems a lot come across trying to knock you down and take the side of the courier, advising that you aren't entitled to the full amount and that you should settle for a lesser amount. 

[BankFodder]

Yes, some of them do – and if you keep on reading your find that some of them don't.

However, although they may be trying to apply pressure – they are not entitled to make any decisions or to make any judgement. And it's up to you to withstand pressure and to stand your ground.

If you read the stories then you will see that this has been repeated many times.

[Whitey_AFC]

Am I within my rights to cancel this via MCOL and resubmit ?

 

I mean this is going back now to November 22nd, obviously it will cost me another £35.00 to do so.

 

But upon reading the defence particulars it does mention ' The claimant stated on the 'order form' that the value of the parcel was £200. The claimant seeks to recover £1.44 plus court fees of £35.00. The total claimed is £36.44. 

 

So surely Hermes on the day can just say ok we're settle it today in full and only required to pay £36.44. 

 

Is there any law stopping it from being resubmitted ? I mean surely the amendment charge of £108.00 is there for a reason. 

[BankFodder]

I would advise you to stay with it. If they offer a settlement of that figure then you simply refuse it .

It's clear that there was an error and it was simply a silly mistake.

They have not referred to in their defence as far as we can tell. So it's too late now to raise the issue. That is what you can say