Yes - Manches

[skintandbroke]

Apologies in advance for this one, the details I have are not spot-on, as I fear I may have shreaded the papers during a clean out. The case actually belongs to my partner, and I have been told the information off him. I will tell you what I know and see if you can help me please.

 

Firstly a Renault Clio was obtained on HP through YES Car Credit around 3.5 years ago. It was an R Reg and i've been told it was worth around 5k. My partner paid monthly - we will go through old bank statements to see how much we paid incrementally and find the total amount.

 

My partner took voluntary termination of contract (is that what it's called?) and was told that the car would be re-sold at auction. It was estimated that the value of the car was about 2,500 (so i've been told).

 

I understand that if there was an outstanding amount between the price at VT and auction that YES would contact my partner and agree a plan to pay off this amount.

 

As far as I am aware no correspondence has arrived. (However, the most recent mail was delivered to his parents address - he's not been there for 3 years at least and post hardly ever arrives there anymore - but when it does he gets it straight away).

 

Then last week a letter came from a company called MANCHES, the letter is below:

 

"Dear Sir

Our Client: The AKtiv Group of Companies and Thames Credit Limited

Original Creditor: Direct Auto Financial Services Limited

Outstanding balance: 4,691.80

 

We act for the Aktiv Group of Companies ("The Group") and Thames Credit Limited. You will be aware from previous correspondence fromour clients that the above debt was purchased by way of Assignment and that Thames Credit Limited has been actingon behalf of the Group in trying to secure your payment proposals for settlement of the above debt.

 

We have now been instructed on this matter as a result of your failure to address the liability. All future correspondence and communicationin relation to this matter should be with this firm.

 

We have been retained by our clients to seek your proposals to discharge th eliability. We are quite happy to discuss this matter with you to reach resolution. In the event that you are reluctant to do so or alternatively choose not to contact this office with your proposals, we anticipate our instrucions will be to escalate procedures."

 

As I said earlier - I may have shreaded our copies of the papers - i keep everything for 2 years and as we have had no dealings with YES in the meantime - and I was unaware of any issues which may be waiting to pounce, I got rid of them.

 

I therefore feel it necessary to sort this out as the letter for over 4k was quite a surprise.

 

Effectively I need:

*A copy of the agreement, highlighting the loan amount over what term and total repayment amount.

* The proof that they sold the car at auction / or in the showroom (this would lead to 2 seperate endings i suppose)

*How much the car was sold for

*what difference this makes to the outstanding debt we owe

* Proof of the voluntary termination

*Proof of receiving payment (to tally with our bank statements)

 

So, can anyone advise how I would go about this. Obviously i don't want to tell them I don't have the papers (I have a bag of papers that i've not yet shreaded - i hope they're in there).

 

I have been onto another credit company chasing for an alleged debt asking for agreements so do i use something similar but ask for ALL the papers. Plus, do they have 12 plus 30 days to come back on this too, like the other credit company, and if nothing is heard then the debt must go through a judge on their behalf. Is this right at all ??

 

Please help, if possible.

 

Thanks

[chaplinsbabe]

hello skintandbroke

 

unfortunately your story does not surprise me in the slightest. This is the sort of shoddy practice YCC are renowned for. I fear that although you believe the car should have been auctioned for £2500 this was a lot higher than what it actually went for. It is also very unfortunate that you have lost your documents concerning this issue but all is not lost. May I suggest you pop along to this webiste -

 

www.saynotoyes.co.uk

 

and sign up as a member on there. It is a site specifically dedicated to all things concerning YCC and there are many stories on there similar to yours. There are also templates for letters on there you can use to request all the info you require from Direct Auto Finance with regards your agreement.

[skintandbroke]

Hi Chaplinsbabe

Thanks so much for that info. I will have a good look at the link when i finish work, and will also have a huge rummage through the bin bags in the garage, just incase the papers are there!

So does this mean that it is likely that we owe them £4,691 then?

[chaplinsbabe]

the thing is without seeing a copy of your agreement I would not like to say. Also, I would need to know how many months you had paid for when you VT'd the car etc and whether you had the insurances

[jimfishybob]

Also. 2.5k for an 97/98 Clio sounds way too steep.

 

If I was at auction I wouldn't expect to pay more thatn about £800 for that car, depending on the model, (probably a biarritz).

 

Is it a HP agreement?

[skintandbroke]

Hi

I'm back!! After rummaging through a bag full of shreading papers which has been left in the shed over the winter, i've found some bits, so will keep you posted as far as I can, as and when.

 

(1) We have found the credit agreement. Basically this says that the total amount payable is £7,106.88. (£215.70 over 48 months).

 

(2) Checks through the bank statements show that £215.70 was paid monthly by direct debit from the 17th November 2003 to the 17th march 2004. This total comes to £3,666.90.

 

(3) A letter was sent to us on ..get this... (a day before the 17th direct debit payment was made to them) on the 16th March 2004 saying

"This is a default Notice served under section 87 (1) of the CCA 1974.

 

You have failed to pay monthly vehicle instalment(s) due of £148.06 and Insurance instalment(s) due of £67.64, your total arears are £431.40." (That's 2 months worth of payments, but they'd received 16 consecutive ones by this point at 215.70 each - by direct debit).

 

This letter goes on a lot more about failure to comply with the payments etc

 

But then it says

 

"IF YOU HAVE PAID AT LEAST ONE THIRD OF THE TOTAL AMOUNT PAYABLE UNDER THE AGREEMENT SET OUT BELOW (OR ANY INSTALLATION CHARGE PLUS ONE THIRD OF THE REST OF THE REST OF THE AMOUNT PAYABLE), WE MAY NOT TAKE BACK THE GOODS AGAINST YOUR WISHES UNLESS WE GET A COURT ORDER.

 

The total amount payable under the agreement is £10,353.60 and by the date of giving this Notice you have paid £2,804.10 under the conditional sale agreement. (This amount is not what we signed for, and we paid over 3.5k accordng to our bank records).

 

The letters are all from DIRECT AUTO SERVICES not YES although the car was from Yes in the first place.

 

Someone please help as NONE OF THE FIGURES ADD UP AT ALL.

We've paid OVER HALF of what was signed, and the voluntary termination occurred in November 2004.

[chaplinsbabe]

I would write a SAR to DAF to get copies of the agreement they hold on your file and any other info they may hold about you. This will then clarify any discrepancies between the two agreements for definite. I would also take the info you now have to the CAB and find out what they say about the whole situation

[marmot]

You will perhaps see they take into account the cost of insurances etc first, and then finally what is left is paid towards the car. Therefore whilst you think you have paid £3500 for the car it is less becasue of the deduction for the insuracnes etc.

[sequenci]

(1) We have found the credit agreement. Basically this says that the total amount payable is £7,106.88. (£215.70 over 48 months).

 

(2) Checks through the bank statements show that £215.70 was paid monthly by direct debit from the 17th November 2003 to the 17th march 2004. This total comes to £3,666.90.

 

as you have paid over 1/2 the total charge for credit, under the VT part of the CCA you do not have to pay any more.

 

what ever they get at auction for the car is their business, you excercised you VT right.

 

more info here:

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 16 How To Deal With Hire Purchase Debt

[skintandbroke]

Hi

Really sorry about this but i'm having a problem loacting the letter template which says "I do not acknowledge any debt to you" and "please send me the signed agreement" etc "even if you are not the originator of this debt". I think its an SAR, or definitely an early letter. I've been looking all morning.... can anyone post me the link please?

 

(is this the one that I should be sending to Manches about the alleged debt?)

Many thanks.

[skintandbroke]

I'm sending this letter off tomorrow (recorded delivery). FYI - i do have copies of some of the papers - those which my partner has signed - but I need to know what happened to the car after they took it back. It was only a Clio, and not worth half of what they say we owe. I will approach the CAB after the 14 days as stated. Wish me luck!

With reference to your letter dated 05 December 2006, where you claim that an outstanding amount of 4,691.80 is owed to you, please be aware that I do not acknowledge any debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends in providing a complete statement of account. I enclose a 1.00 cheque in payment of the statutory fee.

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

3. A signed true copy of paperwork relating to the termination of vehicle purchase contract.

4. A signed true copy of the agreement stating the required number of payments before voluntary termination can proceed.

5. A signed true copy of the agreement stating your rights in reclaiming the vehicle and for what reasons.

6. A signed true copy of the paperwork in relation to the sale of the vehicle once it was no longer in my possession. This is to include the final amount you allege is outstanding on my balance. The price that this vehicle was re-sold at, including the interest rates and final balance. Please also send proof of sale including dates.

7. Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over the period which has required manual intervention by any member of staff, (from any company involved) or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my vehicle purchase contract. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

8. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

I will give you 14 days to respond to my request. If I do not receive a positive response from you within 14 days I will take this matter further via the Citizens’ Advice Bureau and my solicitor.

[skintandbroke]

Actually I've amended the letter slightly because i found paperwork off DAF that says if they can't prove there was a court order or VT then we are eligible for a full refund, so i've added that I want a copy of either the VT or court order (i don't have a copy of these - or nothing that looks like one anyway!). I've added a few extra bits to keep them busy. I haven't told them that i have some copies of paperwork - I'll wait and see if their papers reflect mine!

[skintandbroke]

Had a reply from Manches, saying that they will contact their client (Activ Group) for the relevant paperwork, although I will need to contact Direct Auto finance for the papers which state whether the car was re-sold and how much for etc.

I am going to reply today giving them 14 days to respond, as they have approached me to collect an alleged debt for x amount, without any evidence that the debt exisits.

[John Atkinson]

Did you get any cash back or free road tax that you were promised by ycc?

 

J

[bazak1]

another thing you need to check for is the add on service agreement, which covered your vehicle for mechanical failure ( i forget what it's called ) but they usually charge about two and half grand for that on top of the price of the car, then the GAP insurance.

i would make sure that these arent included in what they are trying to charge you. there are plenty of posts on here from people such as yourself, so have a look and see what knowledge you can gain from them.

[skintandbroke]

Hi

No had nothing back from YCC.

Manches originally said i should go through them for EVERYTHING, but then when i did they told me i should go to Direct Auto. The way I see it, is they're chasing the debt - they can prove the debt. I have some papers but not telling them which ones! I'm interested to see how much they try and rip me off first!

Thanks for your advice though, I will read other threads similiar to mine and hope they help out too.

[skintandbroke]

Just to let you know that i received copies of most of the papers that i'd requested from manches - but there was no court order for the repossession of the vehicle. There are plenty of notes and records that stated that they repossessed the vehicle, so i wrote back to them highlighting all parts of the credit agreement, and other legal documents that they have sent to me showing them that it says that if they take the vehicle without a court order and i've paid at least a third (which they did and which I have), then i am in my rights to claim all the money back that i've paid off the car.

 

I hope this is right - and i hope that i'm entitled to claim my money back. I am going to put up a real fight though, as I can't see why i'm in the wrong, or why it took them nearly 4 years to write to me about it - and then to threaten me in the first instance - if they were better at what they did then we probably wouldn't be in this boat now!!!

 

Wish me luck - really hope i'm successful on this.

Will keep you informed as things happen.

[skintandbroke]

Hi

Just received my credit report and it says a defualt notice was placed on my account on the 16th March 2004 (it says this in their notes too which I obtained from Manches), but i never received notifiaction of this notice, and their notes do not say that they sent me one either.

 

However, I am currently disputing this account with Manches, but the default notice is by OLYMPIA CAPITAL ASA / THAMES CREDIT LTD.

 

Now :

1. Does anyone have an address where I can write to these people please?

 

2. As they no longer own the debt, should they automatically remove the default notice when requested - or even when the debt is sold on to another company.

 

3. Have they breached the Data Protection issues of sharing information?

 

4. Should i write to Manches about the default notice? Their name is not (yet) on my credit file so do they need to be involved about this?

 

Please help, i don't seem to be getting many responses, and i'm finding it quite difficult going about it alone, any support is really appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Skinty

 

PS Happy Easter - what's left of it!!

[skintandbroke]

Shoot!! Just looked this address up on the internet and they seem to be associated with Aktiv Capita ASA who are the clients of Manches.

 

Any help on where this leaves me please?

 

Thanks x

[chaplinsbabe]

ok I have just read through all the posts again and I am slightly confused.

 

When did you actually take out the agreement? Do I assume it was October 2003?

 

The other thing is what does your agreement state is the 1/3 amount? You say you feel you have paid this amount but I fear you may have been under this amount because you are including the insurance amounts as well. The 1/3 amount is just based on the payments for the car, not the insurances as well.

 

Also, you state that you think you may have paid over 1/2. You will only have done this at the 24 month mark.

 

You say that your husband VTd the car in November 2004 but then you say the car was repossessed. could you please clarify.

 

If your husband VTd the car in 2004 it will have been treated as an abandoned vehicle which means they will be chasing you for all the amounts still owed on the agreement.

 

Have you found out why they issued a default notice if you have proof that you were paying it every month? You need to get Aktiv or Direct Auto Finance to confirm this in writing. I would then take evrything you have to the Citizens Advice to get them to look through it.

 

To me it looks like they had no reason to award a default notice against you in March 2004 but you need to get them to say why they did it to be able to challenge them. I would also speak to the Credit Reference Agencies who can advise you how to stop this info being added to your credit rating if it is incorrect

[skintandbroke]

Hi Chaplinsbabe, thanks for your post - i'm confused too!!

 

We have no evidence to say that my partner VTd the car, and we have no evidence to say that they took it without a court order too. I think it is most likely that they took it from us rather than us giving it back to them.

 

The 1/3 we have paid off is on the full amount which includes insurances.

I have a statement from them which shows that we paid 17 monthly installments to them. It also shows a 'repossession cost' of 235 - is this what we pay to them to get it vt'd or what they charge when they take it? (i was working away when this part happened so wasn't involved at the time).

 

I too can't see why they should have defaulted us at the time, as it have taken them since then to contact us again about it. If they had written to us within the last 3 years this could have been sorted out, because we didn't even know that we were left with an outstanding debt.

 

In the contract which we signed there are two sections :

 

1. Termination, your rights

You have the right to end this agreement. If you wish to do so, you should write to the person authorised to receive your payments. We will then be entitled to the return of the goods and to half the total amount payable under this agreement, that is 3,553.44. If you have already paid at least this amount plus any overdue instalments, you do not have to pay any more, provided you have taken reasonable care of the goods.

 

2. Repossession, your rights.

If you fail to keep to your side of the agreement but you have paid at least one third of the total amount payable under this agreement, that is 2,368.96, we may not take the goods back against your wishes unless we get a court order. If we do take them without your consent or a court order you have the right to get back all the money you have paid under tis agreement.

 

 

My partner said he never wrote to the finance company about VTing the car (I believe him on this as he's not a 'writer' so wouldn't crite to them about this).

 

Their notes say (as they couldn't get hold of him while he was at work) "TL put out for repo" and 'Refer for repo" - i have asked them for the paperwork i.e. court order for this but so far nothing.

 

Their papers state that the total amount paid was 3,074.25 and another says 3,451.20 was paid, so either way we have paid more that the 1/3 of the total amount payable under the repossession section of the agreement.

It also says that repossession proceeds were 2,877 (i take it this is the amount that they sold the vehicle on for - and this has been deducted off the overall figure too.

 

If i'm worng then i'm wrong, and we'll have to work out some payment plan, but i hope i've got it right and i'm not happy that its taken them this long to contact me.

 

Thanks again for your help Chaplinsbabe.

[albbyswife]

hello

 

just reading threw your thred any more news about ycc?????

[chaplinsbabe]

ok the 1/3 amount is purely for the car it has nothing to do with the insurances. so you need to look at the figures again. if you have not paid the 1/3 amount for the car which is stated on your agreement then they can repossess the car without a court order (which it sounds to me like they have done). Them charging you for repossessing the car is not something I am familiar with with YCC so I will check this out. And the "proceeds" they state will be the sale of the car but is there actually any paperwork from the auction house to confirm this amount? If not you want to chase them for this because I wouldn't trust YCC as far as I could throw them with things like that

[skintandbroke]

Hi

Well funny you should ask cos no i've not heard anything back from them.I wrote to them on the 13th march saying that as they couldn't provide me with a copy of the actual court order, that they are the ones who are actually in debt to me and i want a refund. I asked them to reposnd within 14 days but they didn't. i haven't been able to do much for a while due to some personal issues, but i wrote to them again 2 weeks ago saying that they usually stick to deadlines when they are chasing me but i haven't heard a dickybird from them in 6 weeks and have asked them to contact me with something satisfactory, whether it be a court order or a refund.

If it turns out that I do owe them then i'll make them an offer, but if not then well, i might be able to claim it all back! BUT they must come up with the correct paperwork first.