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    • Homer did say not to contact DR+.   If that's all the paperwork you have, sit tight and see if a letter before claim/action turns up. If you get one - and you may not, come back here and we'll help you to write back.    Or if you get more threatograms, let us know and we'll let you know if you need to take any action. In the meantime don't write to anyone and keep any correspondence for now.    HB
    • Hi DX   That is the only info letter I have we can't locate the first letter or original parking fine notification My wife said there wasn't  anything on the car windscreen. Do I ask the DC for the original notification ?   what shall I do just wait until they pursue through court ?   apologies for lack of info  Cancookwill
    • Hello, I've been following this thread and have some experience to share... Stand by for lots of words.   About 6 weeks ago, the engine seized on my car - 10 days before planning to use it for our 2 week trip around the UK!  I searched the internet for companies who could replace/rebuild the engine and get it back to me in time... One company that came up was 169 UK. I called the number and explained my predicament and the chap on the phone (who called himself Lee - I'm not convinced this was his real name) promised that if the vehicle got to him the next day or so, he'd have it done in time for our holiday!. He gave all kinds of reassurances about the types of vehicles they work on, from Porsches etc, even people from Spain taking their cars to him.. All work came through 3rd party websites (how i'd found them too) so you generally wont find reviews.    I was weary going into this, but you got to put your faith somewhere, right? so off it went on a trailer to Essex. NOW... I'd already asked where it would be going and I also tracked it by leaving a mobile phone hidden in the car. Interestingly, the place i was told i'd be collecting it from was not the same place the recovery guy (called Patrick?) told me he was delivering it to..    Anyway, they get the car and straight away tell me that the sump is full of diesel and that my ECU is faulty and its locked open one bank of injectors - causing the failure. All of this is feasible, but it meant that the car would not be ready in time for my holiday  He also tells me the DPF's (i'm sure it only has one, but he referred to there being more) were also completely blocked solid and needed to be dealt with (in this case, drilled and mapped out - which is also illegal) All of these little extras have now taken the cost from £3500 to nearly £5000  - as he was " putting together a special package for me" I tell him ok, i'm now away for 2 weeks so you have a little more time, i'll collect it when i get back.  I call him on the Friday before we travel home, asking how its going... he says "well, we aven't done it.. you said you were gonna be away for 2 weeks" apparently he marked to dairy wrong. So i call him again on the Monday following, I say I want to collect it that Thursday... not unreasonable. He then starts with the excuses that he has loads of guys off sick at the moment etc.. BUT, The car IS in the workshop and the boys ARE getting on with it. I say, OK.. but keep me updated daily as i need to make arrangements to come and get it. Tuesday passes without a word, so Wednesday morning i txt him asking for an update. He called me back around and hour later to tell me that the ECU they sourced for me is also faulty (they tested it before fitting it as they're nice like that) and it has water damage so he has to get another one, but that isn't going to get to him until the following Tuesday - which brings us up to this week.   Everything up until this point has been feasible if not a little annoying, BUT here is where is gets good...  On Sunday i happened to be in Essex on other business so decided to swing by Basildon and see if i could find my car. Knowing where it had been dropped off before the tracking phone died, i had a good idea where to look. And i also had the address of the garage where i'd be picking it up from. Hoping to not find it too easily - after all, it was being worked on on the Monday; Imagine my surprise to find it in the exact location it had been dropped off 4 weeks previously!  I lifted the bonnet - nothing had been touched.  The amount of dust on the bodywork and distinct lack of any hand prints etc strongly indicated that nothing had been touched and it certainly hadn't been moved in all that time. He may well have taken the ECU out to test but put it back, that's easy to do - but there is now way to tell from there that the DPF is blocked without removing it, or having full access to the ECU - which is faulty, remember?  It had all been LIES.  Now i am annoyed, but informed and he doesn't know that i know he's been lying to me.  I spent the next couple of days talking to various people i know and arranged my own recovery to get the car back - even if that meant effectively stealing it back. Long story short, i had it collected and got it back to me last night.  The guy who collected it went to the garage i'd been told i'd be collecting it from - Unit 28 Noble Square( Essex car and Commercial) and asked for Lee... Low and behold no-one by that name works there and the car (and others parked in the same place) were nothing to do with them! but then one guy did say "oh hang on, i think i know who you mean, let me give him a call"... 10 minutes later, 'Lee' showed up.  My man then had to endure conversation with this charlatan, but did glean some information that might be of interest.  "LEE" doesn't directly do any of this work... he takes on jobs, maybe up to 30 at a time and then farms them out to local garages. This explains why nothing had been done and why so many others get stuck in this net.   I was surprised that he was calm and didn't get the hump about me taking the car back, i still don't really understand what the scam is, but there definitely is one.  I think i've been very lucky that no money has been paid, i owe him nothing and i got out of there.  The amount of mental anguish and anxiety this has caused me has been extreme.  Now i'm back to square one, still with a broken car. But i'm only £500 out of pocket (for the recovery each way) and not £5k that it was supposedly going to cost... at some point, who knows when!     
    • Good luck from me as well Dixon, fingers crossed.    HB
    • Last time, the Judge provided me with, I would say, the most amount of time to speak. She started with HMRC, and they moved on to me. Essentially, since HMRC last responded to me (the original document I scribbled notes on), I feel it's right I should go first and just comment on each of their responses.   I'll leave sending that link to them, just in case HMRC then find something against it. I'll just bring it up, and mention the above quotes.
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Packlink/EVRi - Item "switched" in transit, court claim raised. *** Settled in full***


nick676
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What is the date the mediation?

Going back over this thread, as far as I can see the only issue is that they say that your contract was with Packlink and not with them. Is this correct?

I can't remember whether you took out insurance on this item – and you tell us please.

In terms of the mediation – nothing will count against you for being inflexible. You don't have to compromise if you are in the right.

If they have argued their case simply on the basis that you should have sued Packlink – then once you destroy that argument they have nothing left.

You Are Relying on the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act. Point that out to the mediator and tell them that there is nothing else. They haven't raised any other issues in their defence and so as you are entitled to sue them, they haven't raised any other objections therefore you want all your money.

You may come under pressure from the mediator to compromise. You should immediately tell the mediator that he or she is acting improperly and they are simply there to pass messages along.
Tell the mediator that your message to EVRi is that you will not compromise. That you are happy to go to court if they won't let you have every last penny that you claimed. And that if it goes to court then the judge will confirm that you have third-party rights and you will make sure that everybody knows about the judgement so that they won't be able to bring the argument again.
Tell the mediator to tell EVRi that if that is what they want then you are up for it.

Once again, you have rights. You are enforcing your rights. The money is significant to you – it means nothing to EVRi. They have a huge amount of money and that they are only interested in discouraging you and discouraging other people from bringing their legitimate claims.

Don't give ground. There is no downside. It's all about your will to succeed.

EVRi think they can bully you using the mediation process.

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Thank you. The mediation is on the 6th.

 

I did take out the insurance. As far as I can see, the only argument in the defence is that "there is no contract between claimant and defendant".

 

A redacted version of the defence is here

 

I'll stick to my guns and maintain that I need to be refunded in full.

 

 

 

 

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Absolutely correct.

All you need to do is quote the rights of third parties act and say that you are exercising your rights under that act. EVRi have raised no other objection to your claim and so therefore they must pay your claim in full – everything you claimed including interest if you claimed interest.

Don't give any ground at all. If it has to go to court then that will be probably in about two or three months time and you will get a judgement confirming your third-party rights.
We will be very pleased to pay for a transcript of that judgement and then to make sure everybody knows about it. Another nail in the coffin of EVRi scams.

Who was it who signed off the defence?

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If the mediator tries to give you any grief for not compromising then tell them that they are acting out of turn and if they don't like it then they can withdraw from the mediation.

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Thanks, will update on how it goes on Wednesday.

 

The defence was signed off by an Emily Egan, I've seen her mentioned elsewhere on these threads too.

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The defendant didn't turn up for the mediation... glad I took the morning off work for this.

 

I have the option of rearranging the mediation or going straight to court with it. If this goes to court, can I claim back any costs incurred (transport etc...) or will the claim only be for the original amount?

 

 

 

 

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Yes if it goes to court then you can certainly claim back your reasonable costs – including reasonable costs of transport, time off work – and also for this wasted time off work today.

Not only that, in view of the fact that they have broken an appointment for the mediation I would say that you would be in a good position to ask the court to exercise their discretion to award exceptional costs on a litigant in person basis for the time that you have taken so far in preparing, communicating et cetera.
These costs are at £19 per hour. It's not guaranteed that you would get them but I would have thought that the court would be anxious to demonstrate its displeasure at the fact that there was a mediation appointment arranged and that EVRi broke the appointment.

So I would suggest that you go directly to court. If there is some form you have to fill in to explain why you're doing this then please let us know and we will help you.

If you want to claim litigant in person costs in view of their unreasonable behaviour – and there is no downside to this – then start keeping a detailed list of the time you have spent so far and the time you are spending going forward.
I suggest that you keep a spreadsheet – times, dates, what you were doing – so that it can all be demonstrated to be completely reasonable and you are not making a money grab.

It will be extremely interesting if it goes to court and the judge upholds your third-party rights. That will be a serious nail in the coffin for EVRi and anybody else who tries this third-party contract trick.

Please keep us closely informed

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Someone else from the Evri legal department has emailed me directly with a settlement offer...

 

"I write with a view to settling this matter.

 

You are claiming £242.61.

 

EVRi defence which has been issued to you is that when you sent the item you entered into a contract with Packlink and therefore EVRi is not liable to you as there is no contractual relationship. As a result of this we also have limited information about the parcel. However we have contacted Packlink on your behalf who have advised that, when you sent the item you stated:

Value: 205 GBP

Postage: 9.24 GBP

Insurance: 205  GBP

However they stated that you have not been compensated as you did not provide the mandatory documentation they have requested.

Notwithstanding this and despite that you have not provided the evidence to Packlink we are willing offer you a goodwill gesture of £214.24 in full and final settlement of this matter.

If you would like to accept this offer please provide your account details and I will arrange payment."

 

Should I ignore the direct contact and stick to the court procedure? This offer still leaves me out of pocket on the court fees, so I'm unwilling to accept. Their breakdown is also incorrect - Packlink refunded me the £9.24 postage months ago, so this has never been part of the claim.

 

 

 

 

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Who signed this off please?

First of all – congratulations, you are winning.

 


Secondly, these people are really stupid. They think they can muck you around, cause delays, put it in the expensive court fees et cetera, waste your time on broken mediation appointments and then get you to accept a gesture of goodwill which still leave you out of pocket.

Have they said that this email to you is without prejudice or confidential?

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Thank you. This is signed off by a Eunice Ochieng - Evri Legal Department.

 

There's nothing in the email about without prejudice or it being confidential, aside from the standard "This e-mail (which includes any files/attachments transmitted with it) is confidential. It is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Evri" at the very bottom of the email.

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Firstly, I rate your chances of success if this goes to court as over 95%. I understand that it turns completely on the fact that you contracted directly with packlink and you are relying on your third party rights.

It is standard rubbish from EVRi to try and fob liability off onto packlink, knowing full well that Packlink are domiciled in Spain and so it's very difficult to attack them.

EVRi routinely avoid reimbursing hundreds of their customers on exactly this basis and of course when they are challenged at mediation they give up and so it is extremely unusual for something like your case to slip through the net and potentially go to litigation.

So here's a warning – your interest and our interests are not necessarily completely aligned. You want to get your money back. We want you to get your money back as well – but we would rather like this to go to court as well in order to establish the principle and to bring an end to this EVRi scam which discourages so many people from pursuing their legitimate claims.

Having said that, you've obviously been put to delay and also losses and so it seems to me that you could send Eunice a letter:

 

Quote

Dear Eunice Ochieng

Reference number XXX

Thanks your letter and your offer of a partial settlement of my claim.

The answer is No.

You have the cheek to come up with the excuse that I have no rights to bring a claim against you despite the fact that we both know about the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999. If you don't know about this Act then I don't know what you're doing being a trainee solicitor.

Not only that, you have tried to lead me a merry dance in your attempt to discourage me from getting my legitimate reimbursement – to the extent that most recently, despite the fact that I took time off from work to attend a mediation session having prepared and made sure that I was available – you went ahead and broke the appointment and in this way you wasted my time, and the scarce time and resources of the mediation service.

Now you think you can come along with some kind of partial offer simply as a "gesture of goodwill" without taking into consideration my lost time, lost interest, the delay you have caused, the stress of dealing with it in addition to having to handle my day job.

I'm more than happy to go to court. I'm more than happy to get a judgement which makes it clear that your standard excuse of lack of privity because I used a price comparison service instead of contracting directly with you, has no basis in law.

I'm looking forward to publishing the subsequent judgement all over the Internet so that the public as well as the media finally understand how you have dishonesty avoided paying lawful reimbursements to hundreds of your customers.

If you want to make me a better offer which takes into account all of the circumstances which I have set out above – including my litigant person costs – and that this offer is made as a matter of liability and unconditionally, then I may be prepared to consider.

 

Let me warn you, that even if you try to make a full offer which is simply limited to the amount of my claim, in the circumstances I will still insist on going to court and I will explain to the judge exactly why that is and why it is reasonable for me to continue and why it is reasonable for that judge to exercise their exceptional discretion to award me my litigant in person costs on this point which I consider as a matter of public interest.

It's completely up to you. I've already started preparing my court bundle.

Believe me.

Signed

 

 

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Thank you, that makes sense, and I completely understand regarding our interests.

 

I'll send a reply clarifying my position, based on what you've provided above.

 

I find it ridiculous that they've pushed back this much over what must be a tiny amount of money for them, especially given I paid extra for their "insurance". The fees, interest, litigant court costs, time wasted by both parties must add up to more than the original item value.

 

Can I please also check, how would costs for any time off work be calculated? I would be using annual leave to attend court, so I'm not sure how that works out as a cost. As you say, I wouldn't want this to appear as a money grab so would only want to claim something reasonable and quantifiable.

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First of all, I would send the letter I have proposed exactly as I have drafted it- unless it really offends you .

Secondly, surely it must be possible to calculate your hourly rate.

I really wouldn't propose any figures at this time. I would wait and see if they are prepared to make you any offer .

Don't hold your breath. I suspect that they will simply prefer to go to court .

I suspect that maybe they will offer you your court costs on top of what they have offered you so far and after that they will simply prefer to go to court .

These people are really stupid and also they don't seem to understand the significance of having this judgement against them .

Wait until they make the first offer .

However, litigation in person costs are about £19 per hour and I would start working out how much you have spent on this right from the very beginning, including visiting this forum, reading threads, doing any kind of research or preparation, etc.

 

If they come back with an offer then maybe you could make a counter offer but I would be thinking of about £800 and then maybe eventually settling for 500

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't forget that The cost to them of having a judgement against them on this point of law will be worth millions

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I have sent the letter as drafted, I appreciate you taking the time to write it. It certainly didn't offend me!

 

I'll break my salary down as an hourly rate and use that as a basis for working out costs. I just want to make sure that I'm not left out of pocket with any of this. The longer it drags on, the more it has become a matter of principle than being about the money.

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Matter of principle is always a bad reason to litigate .

On the other hand, although for many people this could be a serious amount of cash, realistically, it's not a lot and if you aren't massively hard up then it might be a bit sporty to hang on and to take it all the way to court to see what happens.

 

I really don't see you losing

 

 

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Received a response today, basically still denying liability but offering to settle the full value of the claim as a gesture of goodwill.

 

I'm going to accept this, as it mean's I'm not out of pocket. I appreciate that I could probably go down the court route and push for additional costs, but I'm happy to just put the whole thing to bed now.

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OK well done.

No surprises really.

 

I'm pleased you got your money.

 

It goes to show that you have to stand up to them.  They will always blink first

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Posted (edited)

Thank you so much with all your assistance with this, I really do appreciate it.

Edited by nick676
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well done

glad CAG helped you

 

please consider a donation to keep us here.

 

dx

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • Andyorch changed the title to Packlink/EVRi - Item "switched" in transit, court claim raised. *** Settled in full***

I've sent you a pm

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