Packlink/EVRi - Item "switched" in transit, court claim raised. *** Settled in full***

[nick676]

On 8th November I sold a used phone for £205 on eBay and posted the item using Packlink/Hermes. I purchased the additional "protection" to cover the full value of the item. I dropped the item off at the parcel shop and the parcel was delivered on 11th November.

 

I was then contacted by the buyer, saying that the parcel only included a glasses case, not a mobile phone. They sent a photo of what they had received. Immediately phoned eBay who told me to ask the buyer to open a dispute, which I needed to accept. The buyer was refunded and eBay took the money back from me.

 

I raised a claim through Packlink who passed it on to Hermes, Hermes carried out their investigation and found no evidence of any tampering with the item, so denied any accountability. Given the buyer on eBay had perfect feedback and their account was 10+ years old, it seems unlikely they're trying to scam me, despite only sending me the one picture of the parcel and not replying to my requests for more photos.

 

I was then advised by Packlink that as I'd purchased the additional "protection", that I could submit a claim for that. I completed this claim, signed an affidavit confirming that the value of the item and that it was in the package I posted etc. I received confirmation on the 29th November that they would be refunding me in full within 30 days.

 

Unexpectedly, on the 16th December I was contacted again by Packlink, saying they they required further evidence of tampering before they could proceed in refunding me: "The case was transferred to our insurer and the payment was not approved because there were not enough signs of manipulation to the packaging. If we receive additional pictures from you, we will be able to forward it to them and push for a positive outcome."

 

As I've already explained to Packlink, I have no other evidence beyond the one photo which I was sent by the buyer. Is this going to be an issue, as I have no way to prove what may or may not have happened to the parcel in transit? Are my next steps from here to just stop dealing with Packlink altogether and send Hermes a letter of claim? When wording the letter of claim, is all of the above correspondence with Packlink irrelevant, and I should purely stick to the details of what happened to the parcel?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

[BankFodder]

Very interesting that they refer to "our insurer". First time we have heard of this. I would like to know who the insurer is. Please email them and ask them.

Of course evidence is an issue and you would need to prove your case but if you are prepared to go ahead then we will help you.

Begin by reading up the Hermes stories on this sub- forum – at least a couple of dozen of them, begin a complaint to Hermes.

If you don't hear anything after 10 days or if they decline you, then come back here and we will take you through the next step.

Please do find out who their insurer is. Frankly I don't expect there is one

[nick676]

Thanks for the reply. After I queried last week why they're asking for this now after already telling me I'd receive the refund, they've now said...

 

"We understand your discomfort, but as we indicated in our previous communication, it is not possible to transfer your case to the Insurance Department because the requested images are one of The 5 essential requirements to open a claim.

Please do not hesitate to review our Terms and Conditions to verify that the information I am providing is correct and the resolution complies with the agreed conditions"

 

So have gone from talking about their "insurer" to their "insurance department", does this make a difference?

 

If I can't get hold of any more evidence, which is unlikely given the uncooperative buyer (kinda understandable given he probably thought i was trying to scam him), and the fact that it's been more than a month since the package was delivered, is it unlikely that I'll be successful with this? I'm already £205 down and wouldn't want to end up further out of pocket with any legal costs etc.

[BankFodder]

Well spotted. I think reverting to "insurance department" explains a lot.

It simply a little internal scam for milking extra money from people. I'm sure the amount of insurance premiums that they get from the 600 million parcels which they reckon they handle every year must form a phenomenal part of their revenue.

I think it is very likely that you will be successful if you are prepared to push it. There has been so much publicity and so many incidents of theft by Hermes employees. You only need to persuade a judge that it is more likely than not that you are telling the truth.
You have first hand experience. Your purchaser has first-hand experience. Hermes will simply be looking at computer records

[nick676]

Thank you, I'll carry on reading the other threads and will put together a letter to Hermes. I'll post it here first to check, if that's okay.

 

I didn't realise that the additional/protection was a scam until finding this forum, but I'm surprised that they're still pushing back and trying to get me to jump through these additional hoops, having paid extra.

[nick676]

Here's my draft letter of claim....

I'm still not quite sure how much of the back and forth Packlink is actually relevant to the letter to Hermes.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re: Incorrect Item Delivered – eBay item number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx – Google Pixel 4 XL - 64GB - Clearly White - Value £205

 

Packlink Reference: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tracking Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

The subject item was posted on 09/11/2021 using Hermes. Your tracking states that the parcel was delivered on 11/11/2021. I was then contacted by the buyer because the item posted was missing from the package, it had been replaced with a glasses case.

 

I raised a claim with Packlink, but following them investigating with Hermes I was advised “Unfortunately we haven't had a positive feedback on our claim with your parcel, they (Hermes) insist that after an investigation they couldn't find a proof which indicates this issue involve them.”

 

An affidavit document for compensation was submitted on 17/11/2021 including eBay proof of value. On 29/11/2021 I received confirmation that Packlink had received all required documentation to proceed with the claim and that I would receive the following compensation:

 

Value of item = £205.00 (30 days from 29/11/2021)

Postage cost = £3.84 (payment made same day)

 

On 16/12/2021 I was contacted again by Packlink, informing me that I would not be entitled to the above compensation unless I could provide photographic evidence of the parcel being tampered with.

 

You have so far declined to reimburse me and I am therefore informing you that applying my third-party rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 I shall issue a county court claim against you in 14 days and without any further notice unless you reimburse me in full before that date. 

 

If I have to take this route I will be seeking both interest and court fees in addition to my total loss.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

[nick676]

I've sent the above by email and also by Special Delivery, I've just received the following reply to the email...

 

"Dear Nick,
 
Thank you for contacting our CEO, Martijn De Lange. My name is Chris and Martijn has personally asked me to investigate this matter on his behalf.
 
I am very sorry that you have not got the decision you wanted when raising a claim with Packlink shipping.
 
I am not able to dispute the claim you have made as you hold no contract with Hermes your contract is with Packlink shipping directly as such all communications regarding your claim will have to go via Packlink Shipping directly as it will follow the terms you have signed with them. .
Kind regards"

 

Should I wait for a reply to the letter, or just start looking at next steps? The above seems like a pretty standard fobbing off.

[BankFodder]

Yes it is a standard fob off.

I suggest that you send:

Quote

Dear XXX

Reference number XXX – Letter of Claim

I don't believe that Martijn asked you personally to deal with this – but in any event, given all of the very bad publicity in recent weeks, it is clear that he is a failing CEO.
You can tell him that from me personally.

We both know that I enjoy third party rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act and so given that you have fobbed me off, I shall be suing you in the County Court.

You can take this response as my letter of claim and in 14 days I shall be starting a County Court claim against you and without any further notice unless you reimburse me in full.

 

Merry Christmas.

Yours sincerely

 

If you are happy to send this letter then register with the County Court website and start preparing your claim and post your draft here before you click it off on day 15

[nick676]

Haha not messing about with that reply

 

Thank you, will send it over now and sign up on County Court website, ready for the next steps.

 

Merry Christmas to you to

[BankFodder]

I edited a typo

[nick676]

I've registered on the money claim website and have started drafting my claim, ready to send on day 15. How does the following look?

 

"The Claimant used the defendants courier service - reference numbers XXXXXXXXXX & XXXXXXXXX to deliver a phone, value - £205 to a UK address.

 

On delivery it appeared that the parcel had been tampered with as the contents had been swapped for a glasses case and the box had been resealed.

 

The defendant refuses to reimburse the claimant the full value of the item.

 

The defendant is in breach of contract. The claimant seeks £205, plus the court fee of £35 for a total of £240."

 

I have included both the Packlink reference and the Hermes parcel number, but do I only really need the Hermes reference? Also, is it worth mentioning that I did actually purchase their "insurance" to cover the full item value, yet they're not offering me any refund at all?

 

Thanks,

[Andyorch]

I would add some dates that you entered into a contract for the defendants service and then claim interest on your loss from that date...MCOL allows you to add interest 8% automatically...but you must state it within your particulars.

 

 

 

Andy.

[nick676]

Thanks @Andyorch, I have included the "delivery" date of 11/11 and calculated interest from that date, totalling £2.61, and updated the totals accordingly.

[BankFodder]

Please could you post up the original of their defence in PDF format.

Thank you

[nick676]

Hi, please see attached defence. It also says that they've had a bar put on the claim.

Thanks,

Nick

 

Doc_20220208_140747.pdf

Edited February 9 by dx100uk
pdf pers details removed.

[BankFodder]

Thank you. Where does it say that they have put a bar on the claim?
I expect simply that this means that you are now prevented from seeking judgement.

I notice earlier that you said that you needed assistance because you now had no idea what to do.

I'm afraid that this means to me that you haven't done your reading because the defence that you have received is the standard defence that they send out to pretty well everybody who has booked their courier service through Packlink. The principles involved concerning their claim that there is no contract and therefore you should desist have been discussed many times.

It's very important that you go back and do the reading as I've already suggested at the beginning of this thread and you will then find that you have confidence in what you are doing.

It's clear that this defence has destabilised you and yet the situation is simple and we've all been there before.

Please go back and do the reading.

Let's know when you've done that and you understand what the situation is

[BankFodder]

7 minutes ago, mantis shrimp said:

 

 

I do not follow why you have sued Hermes and not Packlink.

 

You also should go and do the reading.

[BankFodder]

3 hours ago, mantis shrimp said:

I do not claim always to be right.

 

I have just googled Packlink and looked at their site.. They appear at best to be an agent for Hermes and other delivery companies. So the sub-contractor argument is weak. The OP should make sure the court has the full booking/contract process explained to it.

There is no subcontractor issue.

If you have done the reading then I'm afraid that you haven't understood what you have read.

Either that or you haven't read thoroughly enough.

I suggest that you do some proper reading of the subject if you want to contribute usefully to these threads and to provide assistance to the people who come to us.
Otherwise afraid that your comments simply become a distraction
 

[dx100uk]

must be why there are 100's of successful court claims against hermes or packlink here individually without involving that argument.

 

KISS!! rules.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

not with a proven track record 

 

please stop trying to use our forum to get one over on just about anyone that tries to help here or score browny points - we gave that up on CAG years ago, you seem to be trying go back to your old days here as a previous user in a previous time?

 

fall in line with how we operate now or please ship out.

there are plenty of other forums if you want to operate that way.

 

i've asked you this before 

we value your experience and we need and welcome your help, but not by conflict.

 

dx

[nick676]

6 hours ago, BankFodder said:

Thank you. Where does it say that they have put a bar on the claim?
I expect simply that this means that you are now prevented from seeking judgement.

I notice earlier that you said that you needed assistance because you now had no idea what to do.

I'm afraid that this means to me that you haven't done your reading because the defence that you have received is the standard defence that they send out to pretty well everybody who has booked their courier service through Packlink. The principles involved concerning their claim that there is no contract and therefore you should desist have been discussed many times.

It's very important that you go back and do the reading as I've already suggested at the beginning of this thread and you will then find that you have confidence in what you are doing.

It's clear that this defence has destabilised you and yet the situation is simple and we've all been there before.

Please go back and do the reading.

Let's know when you've done that and you understand what the situation is

 

Thanks for replying. I've attached a screenshot from MCOL where it mentions the bar.

 

I have read a lot of the threads on here and understand the general principles and that they are subject to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act.

 

I've only seen the defence as filed online, rather than receiving anything in the post yet, so was unsure how I go about disputing the defence or what the next steps are. Hopefully this will become clear when I receive a hard copy.

 

The defence mentions "The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the value of the claim", is a screenshot of the eBay auction showing the final price sufficient for this?

 

Thanks for your patience, I have never been in this situation before so all of the process is new to me.

Screenshot 2022-02-08 at 20.54.44.pdf

[dx100uk]

Simply means bar on default judgement

 

n180 dq time

 

Dx

[nick676]

I returned my DQ last month and haven't heard anything else regarding that, but this week the trainee solicitor at Hermes has emailed me their completed defendants DQ. 

 

I notice that they've put themselves as unavailable to attend the hearing for the next three months. Is this normal practice or some kind of delay tactic?

[Andyorch]

They wont get it unless they make application to stay the claim with their DQ....a hearing can still go ahead even without their attendance.

[nick676]

@dx100uk Thanks, all sorted now.

 

Back on the claim, I have my mediation appointment soon. I've read some other threads and guides online about how the mediation calls work, but would like to check a couple of points.

 

Firstly, it sounds like being inflexible can count against me in the mediation, so would it be wise to concede anything, or just stick to my guns? 

 

Will just mentioning the rights of 3rd parties be sufficient, or will I need to have the act in front of me and ready to quote. Are there any other tips on preparation for the mediation session?

 

I've been looking at this thread and this one for reference.

 

Thanks