Moneybarn : possible invalid default , and termination

[Davesmith2021]

Hi , I’m a bit concerned about putting exact dates and to much information relating to the case just in case a rep for moneybarn is look at theses post .

 

Had a car on HP from moneybarn we have had some arrears and tended to always run the accounts late I know this effected my file but it’s in a bit of a mess so although not ideal are priority is keeping the car and paying other bills .

 

we all got covid in November so things was a bit of a blur with bills and timelines etc 

 

got a email of a notice of termination sent on 9th December saying a default notice was issued on the 3 of November (not received) , and as we had not paid by the 25th of November  they want the car back .

 

Called them they tell us we are around 4 months behind , 2 months we Accepted as old arrears to which we are already paying slightly more back each month and we thought the recent payments was being paid it seems for one reason or another the DD bounced we then offered to pay all the areas there and then around £2000 but got told no chance.

 

I asked where they sent this default notice as there is nothing on my email or any text messages from them and the say they only sent it by post .

 

checked my credit file with clear score not sure if there the best to use but the moneybarn account was last updated on the 1st December and just says in arrears not default I’m not sure if it should mention in default yet ? 
 

I check though my mail just in case Iv missed anything and find a letter dated the 6th of November (postmarked  on the 8th ) and this letter actually says your account is getting behind and we may have to issue a default notice !!!! , which seems very strange as they claim to have sent a notice of default on the 3rd !!!
 

checked all my text messages and I have nothing actually saying they have issued a default notice but , once more they have sent a text on the 8th stating they may have to issue a default if I don’t contact them , they clearly have my contact details but choose not to send a default notice to them or a notification of one actually being sent 

 

Now I have also had correspondence saying that they have submitted a return of goods order and say I can either return the car or do a consent order .

 

what I want to know is

would it be sufficient to prove that a default noticed was either never sent or (considering they have admitted they never sent it by email or notified me by text ) strengthened by the fact that I have received a letter after this date contradicting the allegedly sent default notice , by post and by text notification. And also it seems they have not entered a default on my file (unless clear score  is not good enough) 

 

as I’m led to believe that if they have terminated after sending a invalid default notice the contract is void .

 

any advice would be appreciated

 

regards

 

Dave  

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by dx100uk
formatting

[dx100uk]

moved to the moneybarn forum

lots here to read.

 

a dn can only be sent by Letter via say royal mail not email/text.

 

you wont get anywhere with moneybarn they make it up and interpret the rules as they go along

and you should NEVER EVER ring a debt owner be them the original creditor nor a DCA. ever. you've been here long enough to know this off by heart.

 

your best option is to do a time order

 

 

 

[Davesmith2021]

Thanks for getting back to me dx100uk , 

 

I was definitely thinking of doing the time order, and have seen a huge amount of posts about how moneybarn make up their own rules .

 

I am not expecting them to accept any of my proposals , but was hopeful that I might be about to get the courts to decide that moneybarn terminated after issuing a invalid default notice .

 

just to clarify the notice the default notice they have now emailed me a copy of looks very formal and at first sight one would seem to think it’s a payment reminder not a precursor of court action .

 

can you confirm if a creditor should issue a default notice on credit file ? And if so and they had not issued it with credit file companies would that invalid the DN ? 

 

 

[dx100uk]

they dont HAVE to register the DN.

 

scan and redact what you have

read upload carefully!!

[Davesmith2021]

the default notice (i never received) but since provided by email dated was 3rd November, the other contradictory letter was dated 6th November 

 

 

Doc 17 Dec 2021, 12.43.pdf

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, Davesmith2021 said:

Now I have also had correspondence saying that they have submitted a return of goods order and say I can either return the car or do a consent order .

and please

[Davesmith2021]

it was  a email from their legal team with a copy of the attached claim form . 

Doc 17 Dec 2021, 1.41.pdf

 

Their particulars of claim does not include a copy of the default notice or mention when it was sent , 

[dx100uk]

no dated court stamp 

anyone can download and send one of those to frighten people.

 

and it must be served by Mail not email..and from the court concerned.

 

me thinks all this talking on the phone and free harassment by email has allowed them to think they can scam you.

 

pers if you want to keep the car , if you've paid over 50% you can hand it back by VT and owe ZERO. 

if you want it then i'd nail them in their box and go do a time order yourself now.

 

i'd also send them an sar to get everything they hold on you

as i suspect the A/C is inflated by all manner of unlawful penalty fees that can be reclaimed/removed from the balance +int.

 

you seriously must STOP using phone/text/email on ANY debt related matters. state writing only to whomever wants to try otherwise.

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Davesmith2021]

Yes I asked them for a copy of the court papers that they had alleged to have submitted, 

 

I shall do a SAR request asap and notice them that all future correspondence be in writing.

 

I have not paid 50% and I want to keep the car I am happy to proceed with a time order but I wanted to see if I had any prospect of challenging  them with the invalid default and subsequent termination . 
 

So just to clarify there copy of the emailed default notice is sufficient? it does not seem to have any bold or underlines etc I know this is a minor technicality .

 

the time order does it require a hearing ? Do I have to state my income and expenditure? 
 

I just simply want to pay 50% of the arrears , to be honest I could probably pay all the of the arrears and carry on with the monthly instalments I’d rather not have to go to court and have moneybarn try to oppose the order by saying there’s a lot of late /missed payments and say they believe I can’t afford the payments etc  .

 

 

[dx100uk]

you need to go read the time order link i sent carefully.

 

you could if you wish question the default notice simply stating it is invalid and that the supposed return of goods order seems to be just a downloaded copy that has not been stamped by the court, and indeed no court has contacted you (have you rung the stated court and asked if they have it?), and that you will be paying £xxx on dates xxx - xx to bring the A/C back into credit.

 

where do you park the car?

have you read the threads here about where to/not leave your car and what to do if the fake bailiffs turn up?

 

dx

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

when did you get the car and have you actually paid more than 1/3rd making it protected goods under the consumer credit act?

seems like it else they'd just try to take or scam you into giving it back.

 

would be nice to see the full in/out email/text exchange, dont worry about trying to hide things other than pers info/ref no's, ...so what if they read here.

 

you also need to start budgeting properly.

stop paying for expensive things that are not a priority like cable tv, mobile phone contracts etc old debts now with DCA's and divert money to get this sorted

 

yes get that SAR off today.

 

dx

 

 

 

[Davesmith2021]

only had the car for just over a year , Iv not paid a 3rd of , the reason they never tried to trick me into recovering the car is because I made it clear to them that I will not be keeping it on public roads and will not be giving my consent For it to be taken from my premises
 

When it all first happened I spoke to a few debt helplines and they advised me to apply for breathing space to stop them recovering the car and give me some time to do a time order . 
 

so i got breathing space applied and now I’m trying to resolve this .

 

Giving that I have around 60 days to prepare I am the type of person that is happy to bring a case against them rather than challenging there already stated action if there is grounds for that or if not I’ll look to file the time order . 

 

But it’s not clear to me if firstly there non received default notice is actually valid (the notice looks very formal and does not have any underlines I’m not sure if that is is enough to say it’s invalid or secondly if i can prove they never sent it as I have proof of the letter that was sent later contradicting that they ever sent a DN .

 

There defence to my case would probably be something like : we sent a DN on the 3 by post , then a admin error followed up with another letter days later that although contradicted the DN does not mean it was not sent , it’s just a admin error .

 

which is why I don’t want to wast to much time .

 

looking it in a commen sense way when you consider that they is a paper /email trail showing that I tried to pay all the arrears of as soon as I become aware and it being clear that contradictory information had been sent by post and text message that strengthens had a DN actually been sent and received it would have been paid .

 

im not even sure how I would bring a case against them for unauthorised termination of contract or if it’s even worth talking to a solicitor .

 

 

[dx100uk]

12 minutes ago, Davesmith2021 said:

im not even sure how I would bring a case against them for unauthorised termination of contract or if it’s even worth talking to a solicitor .

seriously not worth it. waste of good money.

just run their complaints procedure to convince them to drop the whole silly dn/tn/ROG fake ish route they are taking. 

get back on the straight an narrow with them, budget better too, it's obv you should never have taken the car on in the 1st place,

 

pers if you've not paid 1/3rd i'd seriously consider dumping them, or even them mutually agreeing to cancel the whole thing and call it quits.

 

if you are having problems now, they will only get worse.

 

don't even think a time order is appropriate here, you've to far to go with the agreement.

 

did you ring the court?

[Davesmith2021]

I’m still on hold to the courts now as I type  , I've sent them an email in case I can’t hold the call much longer. There’s no way I would consider giving the car back unless it’s the absolute worse case scenario , I need the car for work

 

it is a excellent car that when I bought it i got  a very good deal as the pre priced covid boom on cars prices has means that even with the higher apr I've paid on the loan and after me paying over 10k it just does not make sense now in my situation.

 

I can afford the payments , as I've told them I was happy to pay the arrears in full and carry on with the payments so even if the time order is agreed that to be the case I would be happy.

 

However I do believe they have issued the return of goods order to the courts and after reading the time order link there appears that within the response pack I should receive is my chance to apply for a time order in response to their claim .

 

but as I've said I’d rather be pro active with court Proceedings and issue them then ratting than responding but if it is easier and more efficient to respond to their claim as and when I will 

[Davesmith2021]

So given the fact that a received a letter from the creditor dated the 6th nov stating that I need to contact them as my account arrears are getting high and farther stating that a default notice may be issued does this in itself invalidate the default notice was allegedly on the 3rd of November?

 

 

[dx100uk]

no as they can always issue another compliant one.

 

just complain , ending that you want to continue with the agreement.

[Davesmith2021]

So given the fact that a received a letter from the creditor dated the 6th nov stating that I need to contact them as my account arrears are getting high and farther stating that a default notice may be issued does this in itself invalidate the default notice was allegedly on the 3rd of November?

 

Thanks , I have allready complained stating just that .

 

but if they have terminated after sending invalid default notice then i thought that the termination can not be revoked and as such they have breeched the contract and only the areas are recoverable ? 

[dx100uk]

there is no such thing as a termination notice under the Consumer credit act as such.

poss fake invalid default notice, certainly a fake court form sent to frighten and intimidate.

 

just some muppet office junior that as the rest of moneybarn, doesn't have a clue what they should do or whats right, just extort money out of customers or get the car back, as then they have the full price of the car to sell again and the full money of the agreement.. winner winner chicken dinner.

[dx100uk]