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    • This is the letter I sent to P.E.on behalf of my friend, who is a work colleague.  P.E.sent nothing that was requested, and instead sent a letter which is the one posted in this read.  here is what I sent to P.E.     Dear Sir/Madam,                                  Before I am in a position to decide what to do with this pcn, please supply me with the following documentation, no later than 10 calendar days from the receipt of this letter. 1.Please supply a  full unredacted copy of your agreement with the land owner allowing you to enforce parking regulations.Unless of course,CEL are the legitimate landowners, in which case I require a copy of that proof as registered with the land registry.If however,CEL are not  the legal landowner of the said land, then you will have failed to constitute a contract with the land owner giving you the rights to enforce parking on the site.  When considering wether you are the legal land owner, and entitled to the stated fee, please bear this in mind:-  2.If CEL are not the legal land owners, then your penalty charge would be deemed illegal under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999,if you are not the legal registered landowner. It is also an unfair term according to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 regulation 62(4) October 1 2015. 3. I require you to provide me with a breakdown of how you reach the claimed figure. Please be aware of Judge McIlwaines comments in VCS v  Ibbotson Case No 1SE09849 16.5.2012 (transcript in the public domain), where judge McIlwaine said  “Parking charges cannot include business costs which would occur whether or not the alleged contravention took place”. Based upon that evidence,I suggest that the amount claimed is excessive and is being enforced as a penalty for allegedly parking.The parking charge does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, and therefore is unfair as defined in the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. The charge is also,nearly double that of what a council parking charge would be. I believe there is no contract with the landowner that gives CEL the legal standing to levy these charges nor pursue them in the courts in their own name as creditor. 4. Supply  me with documentation showing how or where I formed a contract with CEL.I don’t recall entering into a contract wether fomally, verbally, by phone, text, email, or in person. Signs do not help CEL and drivers to form a contract.CEL,I believe,are only an agent who may or may not be the legal landowner as registered with the Land Registry.  Excel -v-HMRC 2012 is the binding decision in the Upper Chamber which covers this issue with compelling statements of fact about this sort of business model. 5. CEL have not said wether the pcn is for damages for trespass, or a contractual sum.Please specify which it is. 6. I do not believe that CEL have planning permission to erect signage (or the cameras) at this location),required under section 2a, town and country planning act,as defined in the Information Commissioners code of practice, book,updated October 2017.Here is the section you need:- “Given the significant amounts of information that ANPR systems are able to collect, it is important that individuals are informed that their personal data is being processed. The best way to do this is through signage explaining that ANPR recording is taking place and, if possible to do so, the name of the data controller collecting the information. While it is a challenge to inform motorists that they are being monitored, there are methods you can use, such as the Town and Country Planning Act (control of advertisements) Regulations 2007, to help provide this information (see section 9.1.2 for further detail)”. You will find this on page 34, section 5 of the said handbook. If  however,you do have planning permission from the local council to erect cctv/anpr cameras and signage,, then please forward me a copy of the planning permission granted. I also require a copy of the approved planning application, approved site plan and schedule of installation and maintenance of the signs,and cameras. 7. Do not try and frighten me into paying by quoting the Supreme  Court case of Parking Eye V Barry Beavis.Here is some information before and since that case.:- Parking Eye actually pay a fee to the landowners of the car park in question in the SC case, which is why no other cases using this case have gone to county court.Furthermore,Judge J J Maloney did say in his case that he is “ only a district Judge and each case would be different depending on its issues”. Either provide me with all the documentation I have requested, in the time scale stated, or simply  cancel your actions.                                                   Yours Sincerely
    • Good evening   Have something of nothing really to tell   BigMW - I received an email yesterday from the business manager requesting that I attend in person...rather ironic considering I'm imobile hhmmm....   " If you require further information could you please come to site and present valid ID.  The purpose of this is to prevent fraud"   I would deem this an unreasonable request!! Firstly it's taken 36 days to respond, why isn't my drivers license feasible?  Please advise here   Creation Finance -  Received Docs from Sar request - Doc confirming pcp attached....What do you think?   Further to the above, I should have heard back from their investigation (20/05/2022) . I've heard absolutely nothing!  Do I at this point send a nudge email to them or just go straight to FOS regarding both parties?   Thank you     PCP contract_.pdf
    • SAR, yes do both, could be useful for cross referencing   The dates you've given for moving abroad also change from your original post so the more info you can gather the better   Also, there's quite a few questions you haven't answered that could be useful.    
    • No, I wasn’t. I did not know about the ccj because I had moved house and was not aware the loan had passed to Erudio as I was abroad 2012 to 2014.  I have no record of it at all but see that it is on my credit report now.  do I need to get to a SAR  to Erudio and student loans as well As calling northants 
    • No Dryden's don't already legally know your address, just because they have written to you means nothing. Hence how they got the backdoor ccj in 1st place    You need to use our search and type in backdoor ccj    Were you still abroad at the time of the judgement?   Dx
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Second hand car developed fault. Blue Motor Finance


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Hi there,

 

Thanks for this amazing forum. Please see below 1-  letter I sent to financing company in regard of issues and 2- their response. 

 

What is the next step moving forward? 

 

Thanks

 

1- LETTER SENT TO COMPANY ON 2ND DECEMBER 2021( BOTH BY EMAIL AND POST TRACKED DELIVERY)

 

Quote

 

Dear Blue Motor Finance Team,

 

 

I entered into a Hire Purchase agreement with you on the 27th of October 2021. 

 

 I picked up the vehicle, a Citroen C4 Grand Picasso EXCL BLU on the 30th of October. On my way back home, after driving it for over an hour, the seatbelt alarm for the middle row left hand side seat went off. It was unsettling and dangerous as the alarm went off several times for long periods of time, distracting my driving. There was nobody in that seat, nor any object leaning on it.

 

 I also noticed last night that the clutch of the vehicle is slipping when engaged in gear and accelerating with emphasis. The engine revs up but the car does not react accordingly. This is a serious issue that needs to be fixed as soon as possible to avoid further and serious damage to the transmission. This issue only happens when the throttle is put down with emphasis in 4th, 5th and 6th gear. When the car is driven slowly, the issue is not noticeable at all and the car responds normally, hence the fact I had not noticed before.

 

 I will not drive the car in order to avoid further damage to it.

 

 This car was not of satisfactory quality at the time of sale and if it was, it has not remained in that condition for a reasonable period of time.

 

 I would like to kindly ask you to provide a response in the next 7 days, as time is of essence here.

 

 I bought this vehicle for work reasons and I do not have a suitable alternative vehicle. I would like to kindly ask for a replacement vehicle until the car is repaired. If this is not provided, I might need to rent a vehicle for work. If this is the case, I will be looking for a reimbursement of the expenses incurred in doing so as well.

 

As I am within six months of the date of purchase, I am asserting my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and I am providing you with a single opportunity to repair the vehicle failing which I will consider a full refund.

 

 I have sent a copy of the letter to the dealership and I kindly require you to enter into discussions with each other to discuss whether or not you are going to repair the vehicle or declined to repair it in which case I would like to know what arrangements will be made to refund me my money and to remove the vehicle from my property.

 

 I would like to ask you if you are a member of or willing to use ADR to resolve this issue as an alternative to an undesired court case.
 

 Kind regards,

 

 

2- THEIR RESPONSE received on 6th Dec 2021 by email.

 

 

Quote

 

Good Morning, 

 

Thank you for your letter dated 2nd September. 

 

As the dealer has the first opportunity to repair under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the vehicle has not been returned to the dealer and/or we have not been provided with evidence by means of a diagnostics to confirm the faults you are experiencing with your vehicle. 

 

The dealer has also advised that you have warranty with your vehicle, which enables you to take your vehicle to a reputable garage for repairs. Please could you confirm if you have exhausted all avenues? 

 

As a regulated business, the FCA allows us 8 weeks to investigate a Complaint and therefore please allow us this time to investigate your concerns, once we have sufficient evidence. 

 

Should we establish liability, we will review the possibility of offering a hire vehicle, however we are not required to mitigate customers losses as the vehicle should be for personal use not business. 

 

Once we have the evidence required to establish our liability, we will be able to discuss this with you further.

 

 

 

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I must also add that I do not wish to use the warranty, as it is pretty much useless, and the car had around 115000 miles when I bought it. it has not 1000 miles more. 

 

The vehicle was purchased for £7499. The dealership is 3 hours drive away from me. I live in London N13 and they are in Blackburn. 

The dealership confirmed with me by email after the first fault was notified (seatbelt alarm going off) that they are willing to repair the vehicle at no cost to me if I returned it to them.  Should I let Blue Motor Finance know about this? Thanks.

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Thanks for the feedback, letter template and tips. I love this forum. Great work done here. Congratulations.

 

My only concern with the letter is the fact that, if they accept me driving the vehicle to Blackburn for diagnostics or repairs, they may be able to claim that I drove the vehicle, making the issue (slipping clutch) worse and refusing to pay for it.

My approach to this is to ask them in the letter if they are accepting this risk?? I could also ask them to arrange a visit to a garage for diagnostics and provide the details of the appointment and provide them with a reasonable timeframe for repairs to be carried out. What is a reasonable timeframe for this? 7 days? 

I could also suggest that they provide a garage around here and I will take the car for a diagnostic, if they take responsibility for the fee. Any comments on this? 

 

Thanks again. So grateful for the service provided by you. 

 

 

 

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Great. Thanks.  I will give them the option of it being diagnosed near me too, as I do not see any cons to this and seems reasonable in order to minimise disruption to me. 

 

One more question.. how many days I give them to responde? Seven? 

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Again, massive thanks to you for the help provided. Two questions: Should I show the dealership correspondence from Blue Motor Finance? Should I send them this letter?

 

I have changed a couple of bits from your letter. Please see below the final draft:

 

Quote

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email on 6th December 2021

As you know, this is a hire purchase agreement and as such you are effectively the dealer to all intents and purposes. You have a contract with the dealer but that is a different matter and of course it isn't a contract governed by the consumer rights act because neither of you are consumers.

However I am a consumer and I'm protected by the consumer credit act and you have all the responsibilities to me as if you were the retailer (which you are).

You are a business which is regulated under the FCA – but also you are a business which is regulated under the consumer credit act and this makes you liable under any consumer legislation which I enjoy – in particular, the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The retailer has already indicated that they are prepared to repair the first fault which occurred – the seatbelt fault. 


I'm fully prepared to drive the car back to Blackburn for this repair and also for a further diagnosis of any other defects. Of course, I shall be claiming the costs of this from you – in particular if it means that the car has to stay with the dealer overnight or longer and I have to return at a later date. By insisting on this option,  I take it that you do not have any objection in me driving a faulty vehicle for over three hours, therefore assuming the risk of making the transmission issue worse or even risking a possible catastrophic transmission failure.

 

As a gesture of goodwill to you, I'm prepared to try and take steps to mitigate your losses by taking the car to a repairer local to me in order to have the work and diagnosis carried out there.

I should warn you that if you do prefer me to return the vehicle to the retailer in Blackburn, then I may well decide to carry out my own independent inspection should the retailer not agree that the faults which I am describing exist. If an independent inspection confirms my own view, then I shall be looking to you to reimburse the cost of this inspection in addition to any other costs I reasonably incur.


You may feel that it is more cost-effective for you in the long term if I have the car repaired locally and diagnosed locally because then this will also amount to an independent inspection and avoid further damage to the transmission.
 

In respect of your reference to a warranty, please stop trying to fob me off on to warranties.
I am perfectly happy to rely on my statutory consumer rights – and I think you had better understand that. I hope you also understand that warranties are subordinate to statutory consumer rights.
 

You say that your business is regulated by the FCA – and of course that is correct – and that also means that if you start making misleading statements or try to avoid your responsibilities to me then in addition to county court action I am entitled to make a complaint to the financial ombudsman service.

The FCA may allow you eight weeks to investigate a problem and to produce a final response, but what the FCA permits you to do is subordinate to my rights under current consumer legislation.
Your trumpeting of what you are allowed to do by the FCA is calculated to mislead me.
Don't do it.

You have sold me a vehicle which is defective and not
of satisfactory quality. This is a breach of contract. Your statement that I'm not entitled to recover any reasonable foreseeable losses caused by your breach of contract is incorrect.
In particular, your statement that as a consumer I do not have the same entitlement as a business customer is quite wrong – and also calculated to mislead me because I'm sure you must know better.

I accept that it is fair enough that the retailer should have an opportunity to inspect the vehicle and to ascertain the fault. As soon as my position is confirmed, then I shall be looking to you to either arrange or at least to agree the cost of repairs so that they can be put in hand without any delay.

Don't imagine that that will be as long as eight weeks.

 

I'm giving you seven days to let me know which course of action you would prefer me to take.
I hope you understand that I'm trying to have your best interests in mind at all times.


Yours faithfully

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Happy New Year to you all. 

 

I sent the above letter on the 13th Dec 2021 and gave them 7 days to reply. However, I have no received any reply. Absolute silence on their behalf. 

 

I suppose the next step is a letter before court claim. Am I right? I would appreciate some advice, please. 

 

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Hi there,

 

You'll have to remind me – have you had an independent inspection carried out?

 

No. Not yet. I am waiting for their response. 

 

Also, I'm a loss to understand why you send them a letter giving them seven days and then at the end of the seven days you do nothing. Do you think this enhances your credibility?

 

No. It doesn't. I have been very busy. My fault. Although it doesn't enhance my credibility, I hope it doesn't trump my statutory rights. 

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Great. Thanks. I did send them a letter on the 3rd Jan 2022 following your suggestions. 

 

On the 5th Jan 2022 I received this from the complaints team:

 

Quote

 

Further to my letter of 8th November 2021, regretfully, I have been unable to fully resolve your complaint.

This is because you were not happy to go through your warranty therefore I have been in discussion with the broker/dealer about the repairs of your vehicle.

 

explained in my email dated 21st December 2021, the dealer have agreed to repair your vehicle but they will need the vehicle to be taken back to do so.

 

I am sorry that I have yet to reach a decision. I would like to thank you for your patience and understanding as I realise this investigation has taken a little longer than expected.

 

In the meantime, if you would like to discuss the matter further you can contact me 020 3005 9334. Our phone lines are open from 8am to 8pm on Monday to Friday. Alternatively you can write to me at the address above.

You have the right to refer your case to the Financial Ombudsman Service as I have not resolved your complaint

yet, but I hope you will allow me a little more time to reach a conclusion.

 

The Financial Ombudsman Service can be contacted using any of the following methods:

 

 

It seems to me it took them 8 weeks to let me know the dealer is willing to repair the vehicle.

 

I think this is the way forward and my plan is to push for this to happen asap.

 

Am I right with this approach?

I plan to contact the dealer and confirm in writing the terms of the repairs (how long it will take them to inspect and repair the car). 

 

I'd like to claim all the ancillary expenses incurred too.

How can I do this?

 

Is there any better plan or alternative? 

 

Thanks

 

If I decide to take the car there, I will also tell them that by doing so, they accept the risk of making the fault worse.

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Thanks for your prompt response. I appreciate your straightforwardness and I do not think you are being over suspicious or cautious. 

 

I will have an independent inspection of the car asap and let the finance company and dealer know of it and once the result of the inspection has been provided to me, ask them if the have an objection in me driving the vehicle to the dealership for repair. 

 

If the inspection reveals the fault and the finance company/ dealership keep playing tricks, I will seriously consider to exercise my right to reject

 

Thanks again. 

 

 

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Hi,

 

I have an inspection done to the vehicle with a full diagnosis confirming my claims: the clutch slips and it's worn to excess and needs replacing. The other issues found are due to the battery levels being low (due to not driving the car). The seatbelt issue is there too. I am not bothered by it as it is easily dealt with by having the seatbelt clicked in place. That sorts it out. 

 

So I plan to write to the finance company and the dealer letting them know about the outcome of the inspection and asking them to repair the vehicle and if they object to me driving the vehicle to the dealership and give them 5 days to respond. Is this the best way forward? 

 

Thanks. 

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Hi,

 

I had an email from Blue Motor Finance yesterday:

 

Good Afternoon,
 
As I have not heard back from the broker since advising them you did not want to go through your warranty. I have arranged an independent inspection with a company called Scotia inspections. 
 
They will be in contact with you to confirm a date. Once this has happened we can confirm the faults with the vehicle and look into the repairs as requested.
 
Kind regards 
 
How should I respond? 
 
Thanks a lot. 
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Hi,

 

The 8th November 2021 was the first time I sent a letter to them letting them know about the seatbelt alarm going off. I had not spotted the slipping clutch issue then. 

 

On the 2nd Dec 2021 I let them know about the slipping clutch issue. I gave them 7 days to respond, which they did on the 6th Dec 2021, claiming they needed 8 weeks to investigate and stablish liability.

 

They replied to me on the 5th Jan 2022 ( letter copied above) and then again yesterday the 12th Jan 2022 telling me they will make an inspection of the vehicle. 

 

I hope that helps. Please let me know if u have further details. I have always included their correspondence in this threat. Noting else has been received. 

Thanks again. 

 

 

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I don't understand what you mean by the typo. Are you saying that the letter of 6 December is really the letter of 8 November?

 

Nope. I mean I said "if u have further details..."in stead of "if you need further details". 

 

Please find below letter sent on 8th Nov 2021:

 

Dear Blue Motor Finance Team,
I entered into a Hire Purchase agreement with you on the 27th of October
2021. Agreement Reference Number xxxxxxxx


I picked up the vehicle, a Citroen C4 Grand Picasso EXCL BLU Reg xxxxx on
the 30th of October. On my way back home, after driving it for over an hour, the
seatbelt alarm for the middle row left hand side seat went off.  

 

There was nobody in that seat, nor any object leaning on it. It was unsettling and dangerous as the alarm went off several times for long periods of time, distracting my driving. 


I took legal advice on the matter and I am aware that under the Consumer Rights Act, I am within the time limits to get the car fixed at no cost to me. 
 

I spoke to Blue Motor Finance on the phone today at 12:55pm and I was advised to take this matter to the dealership myself. I disagreed on the basis that you are the owner, therefore responsible for repairs under such Act. Hence the formal complaint. 


I am looking forward to hearing from you soon in order to resolve this issue. 
Kind regards,

Edited by dx100uk
Pers info removed
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Thanks so much for the letter. I sent it along with the inspection report of the vehicle. 

 

Let me ask you something: 

 

If they repair the car, could I claim any ancillary losses incurred due to them selling me a car that was not fit for purpose and taking an unreasonable amount of time to repair it?

 

I have spent a decent amount of money in ULEZ since I spotted the slipping clutch.

 

I actually bought this car so I did not have to pay ULEZ on a daily basis. It seems to me that the extra costs I am incurring due to their negligence should be their responsibility.

 

Am I right? 

Edited by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx
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Yep, with my old car, which I had to re-insure. Otherwise I would be out of work.

 

The new car( citroen) has not been driven since I spotted the faulty clutch.

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I did tell them in my letter dated 2nd Dec 2021:

"I bought this vehicle for work reasons and I do not have a suitable alternative vehicle. I would like to kindly ask for a replacement vehicle until the car is repaired. If this is not provided, I might need to rent a vehicle for work. If this is the case, I will be looking for a reimbursement of the expenses incurred in doing so as well"

 

I was lucky enough to be able to retrieve my old vehicle. That , which involves having to pay ULEZ every time I go to work was, by far, the most reasonable option financially. It is £12.50 per day.

 

Is it OK to let them know how much I spent up to date and make them liable for it? 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi there,

 

Following your advice I have sent the financing company this letter dated 26th Jan 2022:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

Despite having an inspection carried out by you via Scotia Vehicle Inspection on the 20th of January 2022,  I have not received any notification from you.

 

As I stated in my letter dated the 2nd of Dec 2021,

 

"I bought this vehicle for work reasons and I do not have a suitable alternative vehicle. I would like to kindly ask for a replacement vehicle until the car is repaired. If this is not provided, I might need to rent a vehicle for work. If this is the case, I will be looking for a reimbursement of the expenses incurred in doing so as well"

 

Furthermore, as I stated on my letter dated the 14th of January 2022,

 

“Also, as you know, the car is not being driven and I may start to add reasonable storage costs as well and I shall inform you about the cost of these shortly before I issue the county court claim.”

 

The more reasonable and cost-efficient way to deal with the problem was to pay ULEZ with another vehicle. Please find below notice of all the payments and incurred expenses since the 2nd of Dec 2021, when I communicated the slipping clutch issue in the car, while I waited for the vehicle to be sorted out:

 

28x ULEZ payments. This adds to £350

1 x independent inspection carried out by The French Car Specialists. £60

1x fee for changing the insurance to another vehicle.

 £30

1x fee to insure the faulty vehicle so it could be taken to an inspection and road tested on 11th Jan 2022. £34.85

 

Total: £474.85

 

Needless to say, I keep paper track of all these receipts.

 

 Yours faithfully

 

 

If they do not reply or repair the vehicle by the end of the month (notice being given in previous letter dated 14th January 2022), what would be my options?  I understand I could reject the car as option 1. As option 2, could I take them to court for not complying with their legal obligations in a reasonable time and force them to repair the car and pay the costs I have incurred (as detailed in last letter)?  

 

Thanks again for your help and dedication to this forum. Priceless. 

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Hi there,

 

I would appreciate a bit of help with my previous question and I would also like to know if I can recover the deposit I paid to the car dealer, if I reject the car. This was £1000 and I paid by bank transfer (mistake on my behalf). 

 

If I reject, how long will it take for the refund to be made? Is it within 14 days?

 

Thanks u very much in advance. 

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Hi there,

 

I have not received any further communication from the financing company. They have failed to produce a final response letter after the 8 week period they gave themselves on the 6th Dec. 

 

On the 12th January, they told me they will arrange an inspection to confirm the faults and look into the repairs as requested. The inspection was done on the 20th January. However, they have done nothing about it and I have not seen the report. I asked for it to be sent to me but Scotia Inspections refused to do so.  

 

A letter of claim was sent on the 14th January letting them know that if they do not repair the vehicle by the end of the 8 week period (expired on 31st Jan 2022), I would issue proceedings. 

 

Would you please be so kind to advice on the matter? I still want to have the car repaired as there are no suitable alternatives at the moment and I am afraid I will not be able to recover the £1000 deposit I paid to the car dealer.  Am I right? 

 

Thanks a lot. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi there,

 

I am making a claim to the county court against Blue Motor Finance. 

 

Do I claim a reimbursement for the full purchase price or for the money I have paid so far under the hire purchase agreement? 

 

Thanks.

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