got default judgement against apple re:macbook 2mts old that failed - sent in HCEO's - Apple sols SCS now saying wrong claimant?

[Mars1900]

I know but I'm trying to work out the best way around this now. Thanks for help everyone 

[Manxman in exile]

[I'll try to get it right this time... ]

 

In order for anyone here to give you a better idea as to what options you have in order to progress this, it would help if you could confirm the details of what has happened.  The fact you won a default judgment against the wrong claimant doesn't necessarily mean that you will win the same claim against the right defendant.  Your claim may have no merit.

 

You bought a MacBook in-store and the screen failed in some way only a couple of months after purchase.  The store you bought from was closed because of lockdown so Apple provided some kind of pre-paid package to send it to the Czech Republic for repair.  You were told by them that the screen was "cracked" and that this "wasn't covered by warranty".  Is that all correct?

 

I know you said you were cutting a long story short, but it might be helpful to have some more detail of what has actually happened, and when it happened.  eg date of purchase; when you notified Apple of the defect; what communications there were between you etc.  For example, you say that at some point Apple agreed to refund you but then withdrew this.  When did they agree - was it before or after you sent the thing to the Czech Republic for repair?  Also did they provide the packaging for the return?

 

Presumably this must have stretched out over many months as most people don't go to the trouble of suing someone like "Apple" without exhausting every other avenue.  So it might be helpful to explain all that happened before you made the decision to sue them... 

 

It would also be helpful to see your Partculars of Claim (apologies if you have already posted them and I've overlooked it!) to see the legal basis of your claim.  I ask because the people in the Czech Republic seem to have rejected your claim as it wasn't covered by Apple's warranty.  It might not be, but depending on what the problem is it might be covered by your statutory consumer rights.  So have you been pursuing this all along as a warranty claim rather than a consumer rights claim?  It might make a difference or it might not.

 

I presume Apple are suggesting that you must have damaged the screen and cracked it, and that is why it stopped working?  Or are they saying it was damaged in transit - in the packaging that they supplied?

 

 

(To re-emphasise the point made previously by @Ethel Street and @dx100uk,  your problem with enforcing the judgment has nothing to do with using the wrong address - it's because you tried to sue a company that doesn't exist.  I presume you should have sued the company detailed in the top left corner of your invoice - that is the entity that sold you the MacBook)

[Mars1900]

Hi. Yes I pursued every avenue possible - it's so much to go through on here but I can private message my claim form with all the details.

I can honestly say Apple complaints is the worst customer experience I've ever encountered. I

'm not just saying that because of the outcome of this but the Irish complaints handlers were dragging their heels and not offering any outcome.

Every week they would phone to ask for details we had already provided them with.

This happened continuously from Apr to Aug.

They offered the refund after I had already received the MacBook back - then backtracked and said ‘higher up’ were refusing.

It's hard to explain how ridiculous this while process was.

They said we can't go any higher than them but on the other hand were saying ‘higher up’ we're refusing to refund.

As for the Czech Republic - I asked for a full technical report - which they never provided.

All they sent me was my warranty.

I've never known such a bunch of liars.

Apple have never said the MacBook was damaged during delivery - that is me giving a possibility as there was no damage to the screen when I sent it to them in the prepaid box they provided.

When I received the Macbook back the box they sent it to me in looked battered - so if it was handled like that upon delivery to them it is quite possible that the screen was damaged during transit.

I also have photos of the condition the box arrived in when I got my Macbook back.

I don't believe their staff are adequately trained to handle issues.

Also the Macbook was purchased online directly from Apple and I collected it the same day from the Liverpool One Store - click and collect. 

Also the screen graphics went after 2 months of purchase.

The Macbook was purchased in Oct 2020 and I reported the fault to them in Jan 2021. The Liverpool One store was closed due to Covid with no information when it would reopen.

The nearest store open to me was Manchester - but I couldn't go here as we are still under lock down and had to stay withing our areas. that's when I made the mistake of arranging with them online to send it in for repair

[BankFodder]

@Mars1900

I'm sorry to come onto you like this but we've already asked you at least once to present your post in a properly spaced way so that people can read them easily especially on small screens.

People are doing their best to help you here – and at the very least you can present your material in a way which facilitates that.

 

Also, please will you post up your claim form in the open forum for other people to see. Post it in PDF format and redacted for identifiers.

 

[Manxman in exile]

As BankFodder has asked you need to post up the claim form on the open forum in PDF format - remove anything that identifies you.  In particular it needs to show your Particulars of Claim so we can understand the basis of your claim.  It might have been sufficient to win a default judgment in an undefended case, but it might not be good enough if you decide to continue the claim and to sue Apple Retail UK Ltd instead of Apple.

 

Also - as BankFodder has asked - you need to present what has happened as clearly and with as much detail (including dates) as possible.  It might help to forget what you have already told us and imagine you are beginning from scratch with a clean sheet of paper.  Imagine we know nothing of what has happened and that you are trying to explain it to us clearly and logically and in chronological order - use numbered paragraphs if it helps.  Don't assume we know anything that you don't tell us.  (eg you said in your first post that you had purchased it from the Apple store in Liverpool but you now say you bought it online and only picked it up from the Liverpool store.  So which is it?  It might not seem like an important detail to you - and it probably isn't in this case - but getting such a detail right might be crucial to winning some consumer rights cases.  So you need to get all the details right first time.)

 

It's a no-brainer to provide the necessary detail for people to help you.  At the moment you've got a non-working Macbook that cost you £700.  I don't know if you might end up also being liable for the HCEO's fees in a case like this.  I don't know if they write them off or will still want to be paid...

[Mars1900]

I need to advise that I am the aunty of my niece who has the claim with Apple as she is too stressed to deal with it herself with all her Uni Work. I've removed her details but this is her claim form she sent. 

 

Reason for claim:
3.1.

 

I purchased a brand new Apple Macbook in September 2020 from the Liverpool Store. The graphics went faulty on the screen in January 2021 for no apparent reason. Due to the Covid pandemic, the Liverpool Store was closed so I could not take it to them.

I contacted Apple online to find out my options and the only options available were to go to a store by Manchester which was open during the pandemic: However, under government rules, I could not travel outside of my city. The other option was to send my Macbook to their technical team based in the Czech Republic.

 

As my Macbook was under a 12month warranty I thought this would be fine so I sent it off in the pre-paid package they sent to me. The Macbook was sent to their technical team in February and shortly afterward I received an email from Apple giving me 3 options.

 

The first option was

to pay for the repair as they suggested it is 'out of coverage of the 'warranty' and the cost would be £431.96 + tax.

 

The second option was

to have my Macbook returned unrepaired and

 

the third option was

to talk to Apple about the options they had already given me.

 

I choose the third option as I had a 12-month warranty and could not understand why I was being asked to pay a fee.

 

I was told there was 'accidental damage' and no further information was provided as the operator could not access the technician's report.

 

When I sent the Macbook to their technical team there was no damage to the screen etc. The only issue was the distorted graphic display which I have evidence of. As a student with little experience of dealing with matters like this and because I needed the Macbook as it had my university work stored on it I was naïve and reluctantly paid the fee.

 

Once the fee was paid in February I received an email from Apple saying the product was being shipped via UPS and should arrive within 2 business days. I was provided with a tracking number which I checked every day to ensure I was in for delivery.

 

On the first day it should have arrived it never turned up. I then checked the tracking and another scheduled delivery date was given. This went on from February until April. During that period I made contact with Apple as I never received my product and I also wanted to question what the accidental damage was and requested a full technician report.  I was getting referred to different departments which when questioned about the accidental damage would refer to a photo and claim there was a crack on the screen which I knew there was not.

 

In the end I did manage to speak to someone from the Czech Republic where their technical team are based and was told I would be sent an email of the technician report within 2 days. Instead - what was sent to me was my 12-month warranty and not the report.

 

After many more phone calls still chasing a full report of the damage and also while still waiting for my Macbook to arrive I was further upset to receive an email from UPS to pay customs charges. I was appalled with this as Apple did not advise me I would be charged customs fees but again I paid them to get my Macbook as I had already paid the 'repair fee'.

 

Even before receiving the Macbook back, I made my first formal complaint to Apple in April. I was contacted by the Complaints Department based in Ireland who were handling my complaint. I was advised that this was the highest department to deal with my complaint and I was in contact with Danny from the Complaints Team until July 2021.

 

It took them 3 months to try and resolve my complaint. Initially, Danny looked at my case and said I would get a full refund which I have a phone record of but he soon backtracked claiming another department was disputing this and refusing to issue my refund which he had requested. He said this other department was sticking to 'accidental damage'.

 

I decided to take it upon myself to call Apple's head office number in the UK to see if I could speak directly to the department that has the authority to issue refunds and the lady I spoke to told me that Danny from the Complaints Department had the authority to issue refunds and she explained there was no 'higher department' to authorize this so I knew I was being lied to by Danny and the Complaints Team in Ireland.

 

They were always asking for further evidence which I had already provided them on numerous occasions and I feel this was just to make the case drag on and on so I would eventually give up. I was always patient and provided them with everything they asked for.

 

However, after 3 months and still getting no further I explained to the Complaints Team that I was not prepared to wait any longer and gave them a cut-off date to resolve my complaint by. I gave them an extra two weeks after which time they did contact me saying they wanted to resolve my complaint amicably and refund me my customs charges. They said they would not be refunding the 'repair fee' as the 'people above them' would not authorize it.

 

I refused this partial refund as this case has gone on since February until July and the whole thing has been a shambles. However, the main reason I refused the partial refund is because my Macbook was not accidentally damaged as suggested by Apple and was still under warranty so I feel that I am due a full refund. They have also failed to send me a technician report which I have requested on many occasions.

 

feel this so-called 'Accidental Damage' is a get-out clause from honouring the warranty. I have photographic evidence, emails, and phone records for my case and feel that Apple have been an absolute disgrace the way they have handled this. I have given them every opportunity to sort my complaint and unfortunately, after all the months this has been going on it has ended unsatisfactorily.

 

Timeline of what happened:
19 September 2020 Purchased Macbook .

21 January 2021 The Graphics display went faulty.

21 January 2021 Contacted Apple (e-message) and given option to take to Manchester or send to Technical Repair Team in Czech Republic. I chose to send it to technical repair team.

12 February 2021 Sent to Czech Republic in pre-paid box.

16 February 2021 Received email from Apple giving 3 options to get Macbook back.

16 February 2021 Paid £435.20 for 'repair'.

17 February 2021 Received email from Apple confirming Macbook was being dispatched and would arrive within 2 business days. Tracking number provided.

18 February 2021 I checked the tracking number and delivery was scheduled. No delivery happened.

22 February 2021 Checked the tracking number and Customs Charges were showing. I paid this fee of £110.11.
March - April 2021 Made numerous phone calls to Apple to complain about charges and asking for technical report of the 'repair'.

1 April 2021 Formal complaint made by email and letter with evidence of my claim.

15 April 2021Macbook delivered.

19 April 2021 Received email from Apple claiming they had tried to call me to discuss my case but my phone records show no such call was made.

21 April 2021 Received another email from Apple claiming they have tried to contact me but my phone shows no record of such a call.

22 April 2021 Received another email saying Apple had tried to contact me. My phone records so no such call. This email also advised the case would remain open until the 29 of April 2021.

26 April 2021 I called Apple Customer Service as I did not want the case to close. The Complaints Team advised that they would provide me with a weekly update. April - July Weekly calls with the Complaints Team usually just to be advised they were still looking into it further.

12 June 2021 I sent email and a registered letter to the Complaints Team advising that I was concerned at how long my complaint was taking to be resolved and advised them I would be taking this complaint further if the case was not resolved by the end of June.

15 July 2021 The Complaints Team called and advised they would
not be refunding the 'repair' fee and the case was now closed.

4. Claim amount details

Claim amount items:
Customs charge £110.11
Repair  £435.20
Complaint letter postage amount £17
Interest rate claimed: 8%
Explanation:

The claimant reserves the right to claim interest under Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 Date interest is claimed from: 1 April 2021
Explanation: This is the date the formal complaint was made Interest end date: Interest will accrue at the daily rate of £0.12 up to the date of judgment

5. Total amount
Claim amount: £562.31
Total interest claimed to the date of submission: £15.16
Claim fee: £70
Total: £647.47

6. Statement of truth
I believe that the facts stated in this claim form are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. 2 August 2021

If you don’t respond before 4pm, 23 August 2021, you could get a default County Court

Claim - Details removed.pdf

claimform ends

..................................

 

 

She has contacted the Enforcement Officer to advise them to return the money to Apple which I believe they have now done. However, Apple's solicitors are contacting her by email and letter about an application to set judgement aside.

 

I will send their documentation over shortly, I just need to convert it it a PDF document.   

Edited December 11, 2021 by dx100uk
text of claim added for ease from one block of text on PDF

[BankFodder]

Please stand by for a reply in the next couple of days. It will take some time to review this thread and to remember what it was all about

 

I do remember that there is a technical issue here that apparently the defendant was not correctly identified.

Please post up their set-aside application. It may be that the best thing to do is make objections and to point out to the court that it's merely a technicality and that the interest of justice are best served by simply allowing the identity of the defendant to be amended.

Let's see the set-aside application

[dx100uk]

text from claimform added to OP's last post for ease of reading as its one block of text.

 

yes BF that is the issue, the OP sued a non entity 'apple' instead of p'haps Apple retail UK

 

dx

[Mars1900]

Letter from Apple solicitor - Details removed.pdf

[BankFodder]

Thank you. This is a very helpful letter.

However the letter does say that the application form is attached – and you have not posted it up. It is very important that we see this application please

[Mars1900]

Sorry took me awhile as had to take photo of each page as this part was only sent in post and not via email. 

Apple Application Notice

Apple Application Notice-compressed (2).pdf

I understand that the name ‘Apple’ on the Claim Form was incorrect. I phoned the court and they advised they can’t change this. To be honest they weren’t the most helpful of people but maybe that’s because they genuinely can’t help. 

Apple’s argument on their Application Notice that the screen was cracked is either 1) a lie. My niece has images of the MacBook before it was sent…no crack on screen. 2) it may have been damaged in transit. 
 

The other point they make is that customs fees are not their responsibility. Surely if you purchase a product from Apple in the UK it is  not unreasonable to expect a repair centre in the UK? And if not then they should cover any postage fees?

They say they did not receive the Claim Form…but yet they phoned the court after missing the CCJ deadline asking for the documents to be sent again. So clearly they received something? They also state the Hanover Street address was incorrect: However, this is the address my niece was given when she spoke to them on the phone and via Live Chat asking where complaints and claims should be sent to. 

Lastly…probably a silly comment…but as they keep pointing out, ‘Apple’ are not a legal entity. What I don’t understand is why their solicitor is defending the correct entity? 
 

The big question now is do you think it’s worth pursuing this case any further and submitting another claim form using the correct name and address on the invoice?

Edited December 11, 2021 by Mars1900

[BankFodder]

Please stand by for a reply to this tomorrow

[dx100uk]

the court wont/can't give legal advice , but should have pointed to the fact that judgement was already? done at that point, so you'd have to raise a new claim against the correct claimant anyway.

its a difficult one.

wrong address, wrong entity,

by 'claim' i will guess chat/phone was answering the question in relation to a claim against the warranty, not a court claim. 

ok they asked for it to be returned, but your damage claim, sadly would be against the courier who was?

now that might be a better route as if you win you'll get the current value of the device.

pers i  don't think you've a chance in hell of suing apple now as the device is busted.

thank for coming on the thread aunty.

[Mars1900]

The image they sent doesn’t even show a crack on the screen…it’s only showing lines which is what happened when you switched it on and the reason I sent it for repair in the first place (faulty graphics).

They’re trying to say one of the distorted lines is a crack in the screen which is a load of rubbish.

I genuinely feel they are blagging.

They haven’t even sent a report of the issues like they said they would.

Surely if you’re paying over £400 for a repair you should get some kind of report of the repairs carried out - like you would if you took your car in for an MOT or service?
 

It was collected by UPS and also delivered back to me by UPS. I have photos of the condition of the box it was sent back to me in…holes and filthy. If it arrived to them in this condition there is a possibility it was damaged in transit…but think Apple are just being unreasonable and refusing to pay.
 

To avoid any confusion I now have the MacBook back without fault. However, if I now put a claim in with UPS will this be for the same amount as I put in on the claim with Apple or a different amount?
 

I find these sort of things complicated sorry. Probably should have gone through a solicitor but it’s very expensive so trying to do it myself. I can understand why people get very stressed out though and give up. 

[dx100uk]

those lines mean the screen is cracked, that doesn't necessarily mean the outer layer will have a crack in it mind, nor that one shows in any layer -  there are multiple layers. typically caused by a pressure point in the corner or twisting of the flip top or over tightening of the corner mountings. but it is cracked yes. worked on enough screens over +30yrs to recognise that exact damage.

 

you will have a very hard job proving it was an inherent fault at time of manufacture unless you find internet evidence of people with that lappy getting mystery screen cracks particularly in the bottom corners.

 

19 minutes ago, Mars1900 said:

To avoid any confusion I now have the MacBook back without fault.

you mean its been returned to you but ofcourse its still faulty.

 

 

 

[Mars1900]

I’ll have to do some research but did find this when doing a quick check then 

M1 MacBook Air reports of self-destructing displays are piling up — and users are baffled | Laptop Mag

WWW.LAPTOPMAG.COM

---

Could Apple have another displaygate on its hands?

 

[dx100uk]

promising, so it's not unheard of.

[BankFodder]

First of all, we are very keen to help you. I completely agree that you seem to be being given the runaround. SCS Law are a firm which is more frequently associated with the private parking industry – the bounty hunting industry.
A lot of what they seem to be saying is complete nonsense.

However, I've been looking through the documents which have been posted here and frankly I'm surprised that you are prepared to put up documents in this kind of condition. 

Please will you help us by scanning your documents properly and putting them up here in a single file multipage PDF document.

I notice that a couple of weeks ago one of my site team colleagues asked for the full context of the chat and that request seems to have been ignored completely. Is there a reason for this?

We asked you for the claim form and you simply given us a typed version. Would like to see the original claim form please.

I can scarcely imagine they don't have access to a scanner but if you don't then I'm sure PC World is open today and you can get one for about 60 quid which will last you a long time.

We would like a full set of documents, properly scanned and in proper order – the right way round et cetera. You can't imagine what some people give us here – and maybe that is because they think that they are getting the advice for free and so they're not very bothered.

I also understand that you have some photographs of the laptop before you send it off. You haven't put these up on the forum – is the reason for this?

I also understand that when it was returned to you it was in a very poor condition – or at least the packaging was in a poor condition. You haven't given us photographs of that or of the cracked screen. Is there a reason for that?

I'm sorry to take this approach – but I think we need to sort ourselves out and get a bit businesslike about this if you want to deal with this.

I'm mulling over the options and it seems to me that you probably won't be able to resist a set aside – but on the other hand avoid the claim being struck out because that will incur further costs.
On that basis I think the reasonable thing to do is to explain to the court that the real problem here is a technicality and that you should be permitted to amend the claim to reflect the correct identity of the defendant.
You've already pointed out quite correctly that they have provided a detailed defence so they are fully aware of the claim.

We need to see documents in original so please will you repost your documents, properly scanned in a single file multipage PDF – and I think you need to do it quickly.

 

If you really do have problems sourcing a scanner then you might like to try Adobe scan which you will find on the play store or in the Apple store.

At the end, before you post them up check them and make sure that they are in the kind of condition that you would be happy with if you are helping somebody else free of charge

[Mars1900]

Hi. 

 

I'll upload it all in one PDF later. I tried uploading the documents in better quality yesterday but it said the file was too big so I had to compress it to the poorest quality to be allowed to send it.

 

Also, the claim form of my niece was downloaded directly from the Court website. Will see if there is another one on there but pretty sure this is the correct one sent. The claim form the solicitors have submitted was sent in the post in that poor quality so even scanning it on a printer the quality will still be bad.

 

I'll try to make sure everything is in order. I do have the Live Chat transcript and the photos but will send these with other documents later.

 

Thanks 

[BankFodder]

Thank you.

As I have said, if you don't have a scanner then you can get an excellent one from PC World very cheaply for about 60 quid and it will last you all of this case and well into the future. Your niece who is a university student will benefit from it.
And it means that we can get on with the business of trying to help you without being frustrated by poor quality documents and poor quality presentation.

 

[dx100uk]

Dont forget pdfreducer and pdfmerge online websites in ypload guide

[Mars1900]

Hi

 

I've spent all day scanning the documents and have used a PDF Reducer - this has greatly reduced the image quality attached. However, to keep everything on one PDF document this is the best I can do.

 

I understand you are trying to help and I am very grateful - but I can't get the quality any better as it is a big document and this site only allows a maximum of 4.88 MB, meaning I had to choose the biggest quality reduction to fit it on this site. 

 

I will attach the transcript of the Live Chat separately where Apple confirm the Head Office address. 

 

I am thinking of getting a solicitor involved to fight this case for my niece - do you think she has a chance? 

 

Thanks

Full Apple Case_compressed (1).pdf

[BankFodder]

A solicitor will have just as good a chance as if you go it alone but it will probably take a lot longer because there will be some protracted correspondence and of course it will cost you quite a lot of money.

Even if you have to take them to court then you win, because this will go on to the small claims track you will simply recover your court fees but the money you spend on the solicitor will not be recoverable. Those are the rules of the small claims track.

Give us some time to have a look at these documents

[BankFodder]

Please upload the transcript of the chat as quickly as possible

[Mars1900]

Chat 

 

23 august apple chat.pdf