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P2P Loan CCJ - claimant now has 3rd party order freezing my account - help


HP Mum
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If someone only receives a Govt benefit - ie working tax credit - and barely has enough money to pay for food, utilities, public transport and general essentials

 

- what happens if their bank receives a 3rd party order to freeze the account because of an unpaid debt and a mistaken assumption that account holder has hidden funds/savings ? 

 

Does the bank allow the account holder access to the bank to pay for life essentials?  Or does the bank literally freeze the account so nothing can be bought, no bills paid for ?   

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Hi

 

Are you asking this on behalf of someone and if so we would need more details?

 

When you say 3rd party order for an unpaid debt exactly what is the debt and by who?

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

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Me

Borrowed a large sum from someone. 

Was unsecured. 

Couldn't repay.

they got a ccj.

Can't pay that either. 

 

they applied to my bank with an interim 3rd party court order to "freeze" account.  

 

 Assume they think I'm hiding a ton of £s - which I am not. 

 

 I have no savings and barely any £s per month. 

 

just am curious what will happen next?

 

Edited by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx
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Hi

 

This is not my specific are so please wait for others to advise you on this

 

According to the below link  if they have applied for a 3rd Party Debt Order you should get Copies of an interim third party debt order, the application notice and any documents filed in support of it must be served on the third party (you are the third party), not less than 21 days before the date fixed for the court hearing. (others in the know will advise so please be patient)

 

 

Please have a good read of the link above 

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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Normally, if a Bank account only has incoming benefit money, which is to cover essential living costs, then the Bank should allow access to the benefit amounts.

 

You need to go back to the Court, make an application to look at your financial position to pay the debt and establish that the account frozen only contains benefit money for essential living costs.

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Will the bank report back to the person/ lawyers with the details of the account? 

 

Will the bank provide that transparency ?  That regular outgoing of £s are only basic essentials.  And regular incoming of £s are very low - and during covid almost non-existent.  And no savings accounts either?

 

If bank provides that kind of transparency and it's obvious there's no £ to repay the debt - what happens next?

is it likely the person/ lawyers will then apply to court to check if there are any other bank accounts with different banks?

 

It seems bizarre that someone would take this action unless they assume there's £s hidden -which there isn't. 

What would a judge likely say/ do next when it's obvious there's no ability to repay the debt?

Could a judge suggest bankruptcy?  

 

I've had a read of the part 72 above.

I'm not sure if to cry or laugh? 

As I don't even have enough £s to pay for the Court fee. 

 

The person has been so misguided by lawyers to even take such action.  They think I have assets - I don't.  

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Understand that I'm nowhere near being competent to answer this, so take my comment with a pinch of salt until someone more experienced has answered, but reading a little more about your situation reveals this article:
 

WWW.CITIZENSADVICE.ORG.UK

Information on third party debt orders to take money owed to you to pay creditors, how they affect your bank account and what to do if a frozen bank account leads to hardship.

 

Which appears to suggest, at the bottom, under the section "What happens if a 3rd Party Debt Order is Made Final", that the order can only affect money in your account when the order is made, and not money paid in later. So does that mean that when your next benefit amount is paid in, that isn't frozen, only what's in there now is?

Mods - that's obviously a link to a different site above, which you might choose to remove if it's not allowed or advisable. In fact, just remove the whole post if that's the case.

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I read that on a different site too. 

I also read that bank knows about the order 7 days before account holder.   

 

I know about it and have still been able to continue using debit card to make small purchases via the account so it's not frozen - yet. 

 

Looking over my account balance - recent and the last year - it will be blatantly obvious to the bank that I can't live without the tiny funds in their bank. 

 

On any day recently that could have been the "fixed day" for freezing - we are talking about a few hundred £s and the bank can see that every month expenditures are only essentials. 

 

Surely the bank must allow direct debits for utilities, insurance, phone etc to still be paid?

Edited by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx
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  • 4 weeks later...

It seems the bank has taken no action as the account has not been frozen.

 

Have continued to use it as normal - which is to pay direct debits and for daily essentials, as in food, phone, wi-fi access, transport.  I have no spare £s at all and actually currently no income either.

 

The debt owed is currently incapable of being repaid - irrespective of the person getting a ccj.

 

There is an alleged hearing in a few weeks time regarding the 3rd party debt order.   

 

I assume the bank has advised the claimant / their lawyers that there are no hidden funds that they can grab?   

 

The claimant got the ccj  as an attempt to make their unsecured debt a secured debt (second charge) on a known property asset. 

The claimant does not know that the property is part of a much larger/ wider (legal) dispute - which is too complicated to go into now as it has been going on for years.

 

I can not access any value attributed to the property until the other dispute is resolved.    But - as far as the claimant is concerned - in essence their old unsecured debt is now secured. 

 

They consider - most likely and probably - there is enough equity that they would be able to get reimbursed at some point...   

 

 I am confused as to why they tried to also freeze my bank account? 

 

Now I assume the bank has informed the claimant that there are no hidden funds,

 

is it most probable that a judge - at the imminent hearing - would advise them to sit and wait because their £s are secured against a property asset?

 

I can not do anything until the much larger dispute is resolved. 

 

 I have never communicated with the claimant or their lawyer - as their claim is so very secondary to the other dispute.  

 

Edited by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx
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Why dont you open a parachute account and get all income paid there??

 

on a small screen so cant scroll back at present.

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to P2P Loan CCJ - claimant now has 3rd party order freezing my account - help

I have no income at present.   Unfortunately.

But I do have an alternative bank account to the one listed on the 3rd party debt order.

 

I would be surprised if the current bank that receives the small amount of government benefit would be allowed to take that and give it to the claimant?

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

So...

I had a small amount in my account. And that was removed by the courts last week. I was left with £0. Couldn't / can't even buy food. As in I'm hungry.  And now can't honour direct debits - for essential bills - due start of the month

 

However the bank also allowed money in a kids account to be taken.

The nature of a kids account is that the bank demands it is set up in both the parent's name and the kids name - but the funds are the kids.  In this case earned income by the kid. Furthermore the kid isn't a kid anymore but the account remained open with funds in it.   Can the 3rd party debt order cover money in a kids account?  Have proof the £s are kids

 

Edited by HP Mum
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You need to go back to the Court, as what has happened i.e taking money from benefits and kids accounts is not correct.  They need to leave you the benefits amount, so you have a minimum amount to cover basics.

 

Contact your local council authority tomorrow and ask for an urgent welfare grant for essentials.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thank you.

I had recently removed 1k from a pension fund - the last amount of total tax-free allowance - into a separate bank.   

 

I can't survive off the monthly benefit so accessing the last allowable sum from the pension fund was the only way I could try stand on own feet to help pay for essentials for the next 3months. 

 

I had just transferred 500 into my normal bank before the court took the lot. This means all my direct debits - utilities, phone, internet, road tax, insurance etc - will bounce tomorrow.   

 

I read that a judge had allowed a creditor to take the tax-free pension sums from a debtor.   Will they be allowed to retain this 500?

 

Just trying to understand what will be a judge's next steps?

 

I did borrow a large sum from a personal contact which I haven't repaid.   They subsequently got a ccj secured against an asset - but only as a 2nd charge. 

 

There are on-going legal disputes with the 1st charge which is preventing any kind of financial resolution.  Been going on for years. 

 

Very complicated - the 1st charge did things they shouldn't have.  The 2nd charge may or may not know about the other legal disputes... But they do stand behind the 1st charge in the pecking order for £s.   (I'm not paying legal costs in those disputes).

 

In the meantime - I don't have any £s and no income.  I'm waiting for resolution too.

 

So what will a judge likely do next, given the sum owed is secured against an asset that - as far as 2nd charge creditor and judge could surmise - would potentially be capable of paying the debt....

 

Should I write a statement to judge simply saying the asset is subject to a wider dispute against a separate entity with a 1st charge and this 2nd charge creditor must wait?

Will the judge say the creditor has to wait?

Can judge switch the claim to bankruptcy

I don't see any benefit to that - but am obviously nervous.

 

 

.

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You were told to open another account. you said you had no money to bother doing that...but you suddenly transfer £500 into it..to pay essentials??

 

Stop funding bank accounts that they can grab cash from!!

you caused this yourself... Sorry.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Dx - I had set up another account. 

 

My benefits don't cover even my essentials. 

I took advice from my pension advisor, he checked and said I had 1k available in pension fund - which was a wonderful surprise and bonus.   They organized that sum to go from the pension fund into the new account. 

 

The 500 I transferred into my normal account was the last of the 1k.  That's it - I have nothing else that can be taken from that pension fund. 

 

You may well be criticizing me but that's harsh.  I had direct debits still set up in my normal account - and that's why I transferred 500. 

I have direct debits due tomorrow - one of which is a higher quarterly payment - total debit value of 500. 

My next benefit isn't due for 1w. 

 

now I can't pay the direct debits and I have 0 for food. 

 

I am stressed and in a corner and probably not thinking right. 

Clearly I made a mistake by transferring my last 500. But "shouting" at me isnt gonna change my mistake. 

 

 I'm trying to keep calm.  

 

I have been doing my best to rise above the most awful circumstances over the last few years. I try not to dwell as a victim, I prefer to try find solutions.  To that end I cope. But most people in similar situation would not have survived the last few years. 

 

In my previous business existence I could earn £500 in a day.  That existence disappeared.  To now lose £500 feels like the end of the world.   I have budgeted.  But I did not expect my circumstances to still be unresolved after a few years.

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if you'd dealt with moving the DD's too then the court would not of gotten the money.

turn any A/C that any court can seize money from into a dead account no DD's no income no movement.

pers i would have though with 'all that has gone on over the years' you'd have been a master at this game and told us a few things to help others....

 

think before you drink before you drive.

 

dx

 

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Posted (edited)

Dx - u r correct. I should have but didn't. I am stupid.  I will now.

And I do intend to write it all down/ self-publish.

I do also try to help family and friends with stuff I've picked up - which is evident on some of my postings - and helps distract from my own issues

 

I still need to understand the implications of this order and what may come next?

Edited by HP Mum
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You need to contact whoever has obtained this money from the Bank, to ask for it back for the reasons you have given and if they won't repay this to you,  apply to the court to retreive this money.   Due to your finances, it should not cost you any hearing fee.  The Court staff may help you with this. 

 

The advice from your pensions advisor appears lacking, if they were aware of the situation you had with creditors.  Did they warn you, that as soon as the money was released, you might have to disclose this to creditors that had a Court judgement against you ?

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Posted (edited)

It's an interim tpdo and the county court is holding the £s before the tpdo is made final...  

The bank is at fault for releasing funds from kids account. I can't discuss with them until tomorrow morning.  Will see what they say before I contact court.

 

Not really sure the pension guy did anything wrong?  In the sense the ccj is secured against an asset from which no £s will be released until different legal disputes are resolved/ asset sold?  The pension tax-free £s were sent to a different bank than the tpdo bank.   

 

I'm not really sure how a ccj works?  The debt is secured against a property.   With just benefits and this small pension sum into a different bank account - which was supposed to just pay essential life bills -  surely the ccj debt is "safe".

 

To whom should I declare I received 1k?   Those funds are gone now anyway. I don't have any other funds or assets from which any creditor can grab

Edited by dx100uk
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the bank are not at fault if your name is/has overall authority on any other A/C.

many financial scammers hid money that way and thats why, oh's it's my underage kids savings/trustee account for when they are of xxx age. i'll hide it there.

 

dx

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I understand that dx.  But just for clarity if it's easily provable earned income by the kid then the court will have to return it?

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:noidea: trouble is the cost of doing so.

 

as explained above you might get fee relief but even so any hearing would be months away.

always better to proactive before rather than try and be reactive after.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Posted (edited)

 But...

it is actually the banks fault with this account.  They can see its not mine and had kid's income in. We just left the account as it was, rather than transferring it into a new account thinking it would be safer and without thinking there'd be a problem like this.  Also kid is officially an adult now.  

 

What do u mean - the cost of doing so?  My kid wants his £s back ! Kid can't be held liable for my debts

Edited by HP Mum
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Posted (edited)

hi I am not expert but it feels that you have ignored the claimant letters and claims. If you had negotiated with them they would give you the chance to negotiate a minimum amount to pay each month. This has lead to the claimant becoming very annoyed and making court orders to verify your financial situation.

 

These companies only spend money if there are money to make therefore they have proves that you have assets they can claim on. at this stage is up to the judge decision when your case goes to court based on the claimant request.

 

suggest you try to arrange monthly payment to repay the debts. If the amount you owe is more than 5 thousands they will bankrupt you and take your assets whether in dispute or not, your claimant will be patient they have done their search on your assets. If you go to court very likely you loose and have to pay costs thousands!!

 

best to make contact with the claimant and negotiate. Judges are never emotional about people that ignores their responsibilities.

 

hope I have not upset but there is no way out but negotiate.

Edited by dx100uk
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