Lowell and CCJ for old old Orange debt - ignored everything - now say bailiffs are coming?

[Sylvanti]

Quote

 

Hello,

Originally back in in early 2012 I had an account with Orange, everything was going fine, I was paying them monthy via visiting their shop. I had a regular monthly contract with them. They accepted my payments over the counter.

However at some point around early summer, two things occurred.  The service was terrible from a signal point of view, and I complained about this, but they told me it was my problem. I then went to pay them my usual

£33 a month bill in the shop I regularly paid them in.  They refused to take my payment and told me that I must pay by direct debit. I told them I was not going to agree to that, and I was within my rights to pay at the counter as I had

already been doing for some months. I also asked them about terminating my contract because the service signal was so bad, it was unusable.  They told me if I wanted to terminate my agreement, that I had to pay up front the remaining

months left on the contract, which by that time was about 20 months left. 

The service was really bad, and so to where the people that worked for orange in the shop I used to pay my monthly bill too.   I asked to see speak to the manager in private, which they had no problems with.  The manager said that basically because

I had complained about their service, they where taking it personally and that even if I wanted to end my contract early they wouldn't accept it.  The guy also told me I must pay by direct debit.  However I was never going to do this, because as a company

they have been known to 'help themselves' by slapping extra charges onto the direct debit without the person knowing unless they paid close attention, and even then they would still claim that a person owed it, you just couldn't win with them.

 

I tried 3 more times in as many weeks to pay this £33 but they kept refusing to accept my payment. I tried several other orange shops in another city but they also refused to accept my payment. It wasn't as if I was refusing to pay them, they refused to take

my payment in the stores, which for some reason they suddenly at the time refused to, even though I watched other people paying their bills in the store!

 

I just got so angry with them, that I decided to just snap the sim up and burn it.  If they where refusing to take my payment, not my problem it was theirs considering they where taking other people's payments over the counter till.

 

I received a letter threatening me with a default if I refused to pay them, I rang them up and they told me to pay at the orange store, I told them they refused to take it. I asked if I could pay over the phone, they took my payment.

 

I didnt think anything more about it, I told them their service signal was horrific and usuable, I had already raised a dispute about this in their shop, and since that happened they refused to take my payment.

I told them that I want my account closing and terminating since I had made my payment, I was also under some illusion that there are certain caveats or something in their original contract that if the signal is unusable or non existent most of the time, they could terminate

the contract without attracting the full termination fee.

 

The account went into default, I was then sent a letter telling me I owed them £33 again , which they refused to accept in store over the phone.  I just said to hell with them and let it go.  The account was sold to many different DCA's and each time it seems they added  a few pounds here or there.  For long periods of time i never got any letters, or just empty threatening letters.  Not once did I acknowledge I owed any debt to any DCA. Next thing you know, Lowell bought the account, was a sent a letter, told me they where going to get a ccj applied to me, and that the bill had gone from the originally £33 to over £600. Again I never spoke or acknowledged them, I thought by this time the account had become statute barred. I was sent court papers, but never had the time to fill anything in, I had no idea how too. I have mental health issues I am being treated for.  I am on sickness benefits have been for a long time.

However they took me to court in Northampton and they got the CCJ on me.  The outstanding bill is now £817.46

Out of the blue, since they never contacted me after telling me they had successfully obtained a CCJ on me, it has to be approaching 3.5 /4 years since.  They sent a letter telling me they would get the bailiffs involved within 2 weeks, last week they then sent another letter telling me I had 7 days.  I can't afford to pay this, and I have no idea what to do.  I can tell you, I have never once responded to any of the DCA's that have written. None of them ever threatened me with a CCJ.  However Lowell did hit me with a CCJ, and it happened too quickly for me to really comprehend how quick that was from the initial letter to getting the court judgement.

 

I really need some help on this.  I have no idea what to do now.  I have employment and support for sick people, they told me there is no requirement to look for work, in any case it would not be feasible considering my illnesses. I am also disabled. I don't know if any of this helps or not, I just do not know. I suffer greatly with anxiety which has developed over the last few years, not because of this. I can't deal with strangers face to face or over the phone. Please help if you can.  thank you.

 

 

Hello,

Originally back in in early 2012 I had an account with Orange, everything was going fine, I was paying them monthy via visiting their shop. I had a regular monthly contract with them. They accepted my payments over the counter.

 

However at some point around early summer, two things occurred.  The service was terrible from a signal point of view, and I complained about this, but they told me it was my problem. I then went to pay them my usual £33 a month bill in the shop I regularly paid them in. 

They refused to take my payment and told me that I must pay by direct debit. I told them I was not going to agree to that, and I was within my rights to pay at the counter as I had already been doing for some months. I also asked them about terminating my contract because the service signal was so bad, it was unusable. 

 

They told me if I wanted to terminate my agreement, that I had to pay up front the remaining months left on the contract, which by that time was about 20 months left. 

The service was really bad, and so to where the people that worked for orange in the shop I used to pay my monthly bill too.   I asked to see speak to the manager in private, which they had no problems with.  The manager said that basically because I had complained about their service, they where taking it personally and that even if I wanted to end my contract early they wouldn't accept it.  The guy also told me I must pay by direct debit.  However I was never going to do this, because as a company they have been known to 'help themselves' by slapping extra charges onto the direct debit without the person knowing unless they paid close attention, and even then they would still claim that a person owed it, you just couldn't win with them.

 

 

I tried 3 more times in as many weeks to pay this £33 but they kept refusing to accept my payment. I tried several other orange shops in another city but they also refused to accept my payment. It wasn't as if I was refusing to pay them, they refused to take my payment in the stores, which for some reason they suddenly at the time refused to, even though I watched other people paying their bills in the store!

 

I just got so angry with them, that I decided to just snap the sim up and burn it.  If they where refusing to take my payment, not my problem it was theirs considering they where taking other people's payments over the counter till.

 

I received a letter threatening me with a default if I refused to pay them, I rang them up and they told me to pay at the orange store, I told them they refused to take it. I asked if I could pay over the phone, they took my payment.

 

I didnt think anything more about it, I told them their service signal was horrific and usuable, I had already raised a dispute about this in their shop, and since that happened they refused to take my payment.

I told them that I want my account closing and terminating since I had made my payment, I was also under some illusion that there are certain caveats or something in their original contract that if the signal is unusable or non existent most of the time, they could terminate

the contract without attracting the full termination fee.

 

The account went into default, I was then sent a letter telling me I owed them £33 again , which they refused to accept in store over the phone. 

 

I just said to hell with them and let it go.  The account was sold to many different DCA's and each time it seems they added  a few pounds here or there.  For long periods of time i never got any letters, or just empty threatening letters. 

 

Not once did I acknowledge I owed any debt to any DCA. Next thing you know, Lowell bought the account, was a sent a letter, told me they where going to get a ccj applied to me, and that the bill had gone from the originally £33 to over £600.

Again I never spoke or acknowledged them, I thought by this time the account had become statute barred. I was sent court papers, but never had the time to fill anything in, I had no idea how too.

 

I have mental health issues I am being treated for.  I am on sickness benefits have been for a long time.

 

However they took me to court in Northampton and they got the CCJ on me.  The outstanding bill is now £817.46

Out of the blue, since they never contacted me after telling me they had successfully obtained a CCJ on me, it has to be approaching 3.5 /4 years since. 

They sent a letter telling me they would get the bailiffs involved within 2 weeks, last week they then sent another letter telling me I had 7 days. 

 

I can't afford to pay this, and I have no idea what to do. 

 

I can tell you, I have never once responded to any of the DCA's that have written.

None of them ever threatened me with a CCJ.  However Lowell did hit me with a CCJ, and it happened too quickly for me to really comprehend how quick that was from the initial letter to getting the court judgement.

 

I really need some help on this.  I have no idea what to do now. 

 

I have employment and support for sick people, they told me there is no requirement to look for work, in any case it would not be feasible considering my illnesses. I am also disabled.

I don't know if any of this helps or not, I just do not know.

I suffer greatly with anxiety which has developed over the last few years, not because of this.

I can't deal with strangers face to face or over the phone.

 

Please help if you can.  thank you.

Edited November 15, 2021 by BankFodder
Restructured in order to make it readable

[BankFodder]

For future reference – it's a mistake to ignore these communications. I'm afraid there is also a mistake simply to stop payments because one thing these companies are very good at is going after you and smashing up your life.

It's a shame that you won't using direct debit. I understand that you don't trust it – but there is a direct debit guarantee which works pretty well and if your account is plundered then generally speaking you can get your bank to return the money to you.

I suggest that you review your approach to direct debits because it will save you a lot of grief – especially if you are suffering anxiety in the way that you say. It will also be one thing less that you have to think about – going down to an orange shop every month to pay your money.

I expect that my site team colleague @dx100uk will be long before too long to give you some better advice than I can – but I certainly see at least three issues here.
Firstly you had a long history of paying by cash over-the-counter and then they changed the rules. Unless there is something very specific in their terms and conditions, I would say that your history of paying cash over-the-counter suggest that they had a contractual obligation to accept your payments in this way and that they were in breach of contract by imposing a unilateral change.

The second issue is the amount of money that they are now trying to claim from you and I expect that a lot of it is made up of charges which are probably unenforceable – but unfortunately you didn't respond to any court documents.

I'm afraid that these things don't go away. Once the ball starts rolling, you have to engage with it in order to stop it or at least to start getting it moving in a direction which is better for you.

I suggest that the first thing you do is that you send orange an SAR.

Also, I think you should contact Lowell and ask them for a full statement outlining in detail how they have arrived at the sum that they have claim from you.

I suggest also that you tell Lowell of your health condition, provide them with some evidence – and at least that will slow things down. It may not stop the process of instructing bailiffs.

You should be aware that once they instruct bailiffs there will be extra charges. There will be a charge for sending a letter and then there will be a much larger charge for conducting a visit.

You want to head off these charges and start dealing with it.

I think the SAR is essential.

We may be able to assist you in getting the judgement set aside – although that will require a fee – but we need to know what the claim is made up of first.

 

The third issue is the quality of the service that you were receiving. This could be grounds for terminating the contract – but the problem is that you probably don't have any evidence of this.

Maybe a subject access request will disclose more information about this as well as matters relating to the conduct of your account including the way you paid.

[dx100uk]

can i just confirm, there was more than a 6yrs gap between your last payment and the date lowell quote they got a CCJ?

 

dx

[Sylvanti]

I believe it was  close to 6 years. The last time I made a payment to Orange (which is now EE in the UK) Was  February 2012 for £33.00 I think, and that was over the phone, although I never received any statement for it. They managed to get the CCJ on 12.0.2017

 

@BankFodder

Hi, thanks for your advice.

Orange no longer operate in the UK. I assumed that EE had something to do with it, but not sure what. I am not even sure if EE would fulfill my SAR request (since it was with Orange and not EE) or how I even go about obtaining a SAR.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Sylvanti

[BankFodder]

Send them the SAR anyway. Follow the subject access request link for explanations and a template.

[dx100uk]

most poss not SB'd then.

 

can you please scan up these letters you have been getting to one mass PDF

read our upload guide carefully.

 

i suspect if you read them properly they do not say WILL anything.

dont forget a DCA is NOT A BAILIFF and have ZERO legal powers on ANY DEBT no matter what its type notr even if they have a judgement CCJ

 

[Sylvanti]

sadly I do not have a scanner, and I believe I shredded pretty much every letter  from all of the debt recovery agencies a few years ago. The only letter I have now is from Lowell telling me I have 7 days before they apply for a warrant of control to get the bailiffs involved.

[dx100uk]

read upload please use a phone or digital camera.

 

dx

[Sylvanti]

This is the only letter I can find, I might have some more, but I really have no idea where. I did a big clean out with a friend a few years ago, and shredded pretty much all of my old letters including those from the debt collection agencies. It was originally sold on to quite a few debt collection agencies, i am unsure why, considering the original amount was defaulted for £33.

 

threatofbailiffs.pdf

 

If they have been instructed to apply for a warrant of control, who instructed them?

Edited November 15, 2021 by Sylvanti

[AndyOrch]

Lowell...they are the judgment creditor...I would be submitting an n245 and make an affordable payment plan through the courts...that will end the Bailiff threat.....and the £201.99 shouldn't be added to the debt has they have not applied or instructed bailiffs yet.

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

ops doesnt say will anything either...

yep n245 time 

cut 'em off at the pass £10-£20PCM at the very max.

[Sylvanti]

The problem is I cant afford to take on another debt, I already have too many outgoing bills, and really struggling as it is. Is there no other way?`

[dx100uk]

this takes priority but not before Rent/mortgage/ctax/gas/electric.

 

anything else is not a priority debt and £pcm should be reduced

hope you are not blindly paying any other DCA's on old debts?

[Sylvanti]

No I am not paying any other DCA, but my Incoming barely covers my outgoings. By the time I have paid my other bills, I am practically left with nothing, that is why I cannot afford to take anything else on.

 

The things I am paying for are the main priority.

I realize this is also a big problem and needs addressing, but I simply cannot afford to pay even smaller amounts.

 

It is not a case of I don't want too, if I have no other choice, but I simply cannot, I have no money to pay them at all.

[Sylvanti]

I have just plucked up the courage to speak to lowell, and explained my exact circumstances. Also that I simply could not pay. The client is something called portfolio 21?  The guy said he was referring it back to the client.  It turns out Orange added something like £246 to the existing bill of £33. Lowell have added interest and charges taking it to £817.

 

He said that I don't need to worry about making any payment plan with them or anything else right now, since it needs to be reviewed with my current information. I.e Unemployed due to mental health reasons etc.  He asked me what they where and I told him, thats when he said my case needs to be reviewed and sent back to the client.

 

It will be the client who contacts me, and not to worry.

I asked him how long this will take, and he said he had no idea. It could take a week , it could take several months, it is possible they might just stop any further action from occurring and write it off or something.

 

It now remains to be seen what will happen next.

I asked him about them getting the bailiffs but the guy just said dont worry, its being sent back to the bailiffs under review.

[dx100uk]

portfolio 21?? never heard of them.

someone talking BS here.

or it might just be lowells 'portfolio' that they keep your debt in.

 

for you info can we just clarify this bailiff issue.

 

if the CLAIMANT on the CCJ/Judgement wants to involve bailiffs they have to return to court and ask the judge's permission  to enforce the CCJ.

of that, the court will inform you of this happening and for you side of events etc.

even IF bailiffs are involved, there is practically nothing they can do if basically you ignore them, there is NO right of forced entry upon consumer debts. so stop worrying.

 

also its worthy to note bar the £221 (whatever that is unlawful for sure!) the debt is nade up of your monthly payment till end of contract, these would have been added by orange prior to the sale to lowells? was it?

 

dx

[Sylvanti]

30 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

portfolio 21?? never heard of them.

someone talking BS here.

or it might just be lowells 'portfolio' that they keep your debt in.

 

for you info can we just clarify this bailiff issue.

 

if the CLAIMANT on the CCJ/Judgement wants to involve bailiffs they have to return to court and ask the judge's permission  to enforce the CCJ.

of that, the court will inform you of this happening and for you side of events etc.

even IF bailiffs are involved, there is practically nothing they can do if basically you ignore them, there is NO right of forced entry upon consumer debts. so stop worrying.

 

also its worthy to note bar the £221 (whatever that is unlawful for sure!) the debt is nade up of your monthly payment till end of contract, these would have been added by orange prior to the sale to lowells? was it?

 

dx

thank you for putting my mind to rest. 

 

My understanding of what he said was that Orange added outstanding charges until they defaulted the account and then terminated the contract.

 

As for the bailiff situation the guy said it my account was being sent back to the client, with my updated information, current situation, when I explained I could not afford to pay anything etc as what I said above.  It seems it is down to what the client decides to do I think. 

 

He said they will be contacting me, I asked him if they where the owners of my account and he said no.  I said if orange don't exist anymore then neither should the ridiculous debt.  It seems its now up to the client and  that they will contact me.

 

He asked me for an email address and I told him I wouldn't give it to him / lowell. I want communication via the mail only.  I told him I was considered vulnerable according to the government's perception of me and also my doctor, I was in the vulnerable group after covid fiasco fired up. I am also house bound not that it matters.

 

 

I read something which said if your vulnerable the bailiffs are not allowed to come into the property. I think when I told him I was considered vulnerable thats when he said I will help you by sending it back to the client with updated information and for them to review it.

[AndyOrch]

The judgment is coming up to its sixth anniversary hence the flurry of activity and threat of bailiff enforcement. Lowell are the owners of the debt and the judgment creditor...nothing to do with Orange /EE nor is there any client.

 

Have you got a copy of the Notice of Judgment ?

 

[dx100uk]

Just type no need to keep hitting quote

 

Pers i would not believe anything a dca says on the phone..they lie!!

 

next time dont..writing only

fOrgwt about bailiffs

you fell for the oldest trick in the book!

anD contacted them

it was only sent to gander a wet yourself action.

 

get a copy of the ccj and the particular of claim?

 

If not get the ccj number from your credit file or lowell letter and go ring northants bulk and ask for a copy of the poc and ccj by ema il pdf tomorrow

[AndyOrch]

And a copy of the Notice of Judgment.

[Sylvanti]

Unfortunately I was position 67 in the queue on my mobile. I dont have a landline. It would end up costing me a fortune to even try to get through to them. I will try again early in the morning, they close at 5pm, those stuck in the queue when that times comes around will suddenly find that the line goes dead or something.

 

[dx100uk]

you could reply to the email with the POC in and ask for the judgement CCJ copy too?

 

dx

 

[AndyOrch]

[email protected]

Request for copy of Judgment

Copy Judgment