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Cabot/Mortimer Claimform - Aqua Card debt


2021Oops
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Name of the Claimant ? Cabot Financial UK Limited

 

Date of issue – 04 Nov 21

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for –

 

1. By an agreement between New Day LTD RE Aqua & The Defendant on or around 23/10/2017(the agreement). New Day LTD RE Aqua agreed to issue the defendant a credit card.

 

2.The defendant failed to make the minimum payments due.

 

3.The agreement was terminated following the service of a default notice.

 

4.The Agreement was assigned to the claimant,

 

The claimant therefore claims

1. 1376 2. Costs

 

What is the total value of the claim? 1536
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Unsure
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? Unsure but seems probably not

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit card
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt Purchaser: Cabot
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Unsure
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Unsure
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Unsure
 

Why did you cease payments? Made a conscious decision to cease non essential payments due to covid lockdown affecting work
 

What was the date of your last payment? Roughly march 2020

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Not that I recall, I may have been on reduced payments before defaulting

 

............

 

 

Just to clarify, I moved at the start of the year and just happened to know the new tenant so asked him to let me have any post that looked important ie bank + brown envelopes as he is about 30 mins away and luckily he texted me about this one. I think he was just putting anything else return to sender.

 

I have dealt with a credit card claim in the past(pre 2010) and had some help from this site, unable to find old login details so not a total beginner but it was a long time ago.

 

This was unfortunately 1 of several debts I was unable to repay last year during the covid lockdown. Self employed and after receiving the first year seiss was unable to claim year 2 and have been on Universal credit since early 2021 although work is slowly picking up. Buried my head a bit at the time and had a feeling this was coming.

 

Any advice would be much appreciated, no way I can clear it off in 1 go and would realistically be able to consider a repayment plan with creditor moving forward.

 

I appreciate it is 10 days since the issue date so thats time lost.

 

Would it be worth me making sure any other creditors have me current address? This is the largest of several debts though.

 

As is stands I have nothing to lose & my credit record was destroyed last year but appreciate a ccj is more serious than the default + dont want my old property having any unwanted visits.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Cabot/Mortimer Claimform - Aqua Card debt

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.
Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...
You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.
..
get a CCA Request running to the claimant

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/

..

Leave the £1 PO unsigned and uncrossed

.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

on BOTH type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............


 

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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45 minutes ago, 2021Oops said:

Would it be worth me making sure any other creditors have me current address?

a must just a simple letter will do.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Great thanks.

I'll set up the mcol thing later.

Ideal outcome is it buys me some time

 

Could I just send them all a Generic along the lines of?

Please update any address you may have on file for me:

 

your debt ref number

ex (original creditor) debt type xxxx their ref number xxx

 

please note my new address as above 

 

......................

 

 

Funny enough theres a letter here from PRA group for an old Lloyds overdraft. 99% sure ive not touched it since 2014 as I changed bank at that point after being booted. I assume this is likely statute barred and they cant enforce it. They are also offering 65% off

 

Have just checked CreditKarma and its showing these which I think would be correct. Have never heard of Hoist before, the others are all familiar.

 

Hoist Finance

Cabot(this debt)

Lowell

Home Retail Group Services Ltd(Argos?)

Lowell again

 

 

Would emails suffice for address changes?, save myself a few quid in stamps

Edited by 2021Oops
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letter adapted for you

 

2nd class stamps are not expensive

royal mail to their registered addresses

no dont ever use email !

 

you need to ref each one with their unique debt ref no they use or the original creditors name and their refnumber.

2 one for each debt to lowell 

one to PRA group too!

just because a debt is poss sB'd doesnt mean no backdoor CCJ!!

 

you obv dont need to do one now to cabot,

  • Thanks 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

@dx100uk

 

I have managed to get hold of some more of the post from the old place, seems his girlfriend hadnt actually returned any and had just put in a box so I do now have the Letter of Claim details which I presume is the PAPDC.

 

Im just doing the CCA + CPR letters and have found 1 or 2 Aqua letters from a couple of years back and have noticed that the account number on the Aqua letters does not match the 'Original Account Number', the one stated on the Letter of claim details is substantially different to the Aqua.

 

Which number am I using?, there is no account number on the claim just a reference. Could this be a mistake on their part or would it be normal for them to differ?. From what I can see here there is just a load of letters from Cabot with no details on asking to speak to me followed by the Letter of Claim from Mortimer Clarke.

 

In simple terms im confused that the original account number is different to the number on the Letter of Claim Details and dont want to go pointing out a mistake.

 

I guess I can just use the Cabot reference?, this is on the claim form

Edited by 2021Oops
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so the claimform poc does not even state any number at all?

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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well it must be in the poc...typical cabot..hoping you'll wet yourself as 85% of people do and blindly admit and cough up.

 

on the CCa request i'd put (under court claim number (top right of claimform))

 

you keep the fact you know the OC's 16 digit number to yourself..

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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cant harm

 

you did enter your correct address now when doing MCOL AOS? so the court has it too?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Right just to get a few things set in my mind.

 

Date of issue was the 4th of november and defence must be submitted by day 33, is that before day 33 or by the end of day 33?. 33 by my calculation is tuesday the 7th so does that mean I can submit defence tuesday?

 

As for cca request it was sent on the 18th of november and as of now nothing received which would make wednesday 8th the deadline for them to comply on the assumption its 14 working days, is that correct? Was signed for on the 19th if that affects the +2?

 

Cpr was sent the same day again with no response, what happens here if they dont repond?

 

Are there any good examples of defences I can look at?, i'm thinking right now that the claims very vague with no account details or anything on poc so nothing linking me to the account + they havnt provided the cca yet although they havnt defaulted on that yet but will have by the time.

 

Dont want to leave this till the last second.

 

 

 

Edited by 2021Oops
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defence is due by 4pm monday 6th. as stated earlier in the 2 guides -  the date on the claimform is ONE in the count.

 

the fact they have failed to reply to either request is already a part in our std 'no paperwork/holding defence' in just about every claimform card thread here

use our enhanced google search box.

 

as for the lack of any account number in the poc , you will need to add a paragraph stating that fact into the above.

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

I found an old defence I used and tweaked a bit. Unfortunately I think I messed up in not asking for a statement in my cpr, while it wasnt referred to in the poc it does have the amount. There were no paragraphs and it looks like it was done on a phone or even an excel import??. I dont know if not requesting the cpr means I cant ask for proof of how they got the amount?

 

Is that enough about the lack of account details?, I mean my cabot ref is at the top of the page but 100% no aqua account number on here. That would surely come under having to prove 

 

Please feel free to tweak etc. Wasnt sure how to word the s78 stuff as I didnt want to lie with it being not in default till weds.

 

 

Photo of poc is shown above to show how lacking it is in format in particular 

 

1. By an agreement between New Day LTD RE Aqua & The Defendant on or around 23/10/2017(the agreement). New Day LTD RE Aqua agreed to issue the defendant a credit card.

 

2.The defendant failed to make the minimum payments due.

 

3.The agreement was terminated following the service of a default notice.

 

4.The Agreement was assigned to the claimant,

 

The claimant therefore claims

1. 1376 2. Costs

 

Defence:

 

1.     The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC

 

3. Paragraph 1 is noted. It is accepted I have in the past had agreements with New Day LTD RE Aqua. I do not recall the precise details or agreement nor the claimant either having failed to plead an agreement/account number within its particulars of claim and have therefore sought verification from the claimant.

 

4. Paragraph 2 is noted but until such time the claimant can clarify  the agreement account number any breach has yet to be proven.     

 

5.  I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served by either the Claimant or New Day LTD RE Aqua pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

6. It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant. The Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of the Agreement/Assignment/Default notice or Termination requested by CPR 31. 14, and will shortly be in default of my section 78 request, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and;

(b) show and evidence the breach and service of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974 on which the Termination referred to relies upon.

(c) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

8. On the 17th of November I requested to The Claimants Solicitors, Mortimer Clarke by way of a CPR 31.14 copies of the documents referred to within the Claimants particulars to establish what the claim is for. Mortimer Clarke have failed to fulfill my CPR 31:14 request.

 

9. On the 16th of November I made a section 78 legal request to the claimant for a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement. The claimant has as of of 06/12/21 failed to comply.

 

10. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

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not too bad

dont worry about the CCA12+2 working days, that limit is immaterial once a claim has been raised, there is no compulsion for them to have to comply within the time limits.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I have made a few tweaks and added point 2.Check that your happy with the draft.

 

Andy

  • Thanks 1

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Thanks Andy.

 

A couple of things though they didnt actually use paragraphs in the poc 🤣 I separated them to make it clearer. If you look up the post ive attached an actual pdf of the poc minus sensitive info.

 

Also I think they did send the Pre action thing, I didnt actually receive it till after id got the claim as it went to the old address. Should I leave that in still?

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we do that to the poc's all the time as you see in other threads...good move

 

drop no.2. and renumber then...simple

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ok will remove that.

 

 

 

Couple of things

 

Re

 

3. above, is that 100% right?, I cant get my head around the "as neither the claimant either" bit probably just me being stupid

 

4. Should it read  'breach has yet to be proven'? as in missing the be?

 

 

 

Hate to question you guys as I know you know what you are doing, I just like to understand exactly what im sending and no harm double checking as we are all humans

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15 hours ago, 2021Oops said:

as neither the claimant either

neither has the claimant, 

 

15 hours ago, 2021Oops said:

4. Paragraph 2 is noted, but until such time the claimant can clarify  the agreement account number, any breach has yet to be proven.   

simply missing a few , and a be yes.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

How does this sound?

 

2. Paragraph 1 is noted. It is accepted I have in the past had agreements with New Day LTD RE Aqua. I do not recall the precise details or agreement, neither does the claimant having failed to plead an agreement/account number within its particulars of claim and have therefore sought verification from the claimant.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is noted but until such time the claimant can clarify the agreement account number any breach has yet to be proven.   

 

Swapping has with does made more sense? Am I making the presumption that they dont have it as they didnt provide it? I have to presume it was just laziness when inputting 

 

Ive just found something interesting. I wont say what incase anyone is watching but;

 

Is there any reason why an account would have 2 different 16 digit account numbers?, looking here Aqua have used 2 different card number in letters dated 2 months apart. 1 of these letters is probably pretty important and has a number which differs from previous bills, the card + credit report

 

 

Edited by 2021Oops
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3. Paragraph 1 is noted. It is accepted I have in the past had agreements with New Day LTD RE Aqua. I do not recall the precise details or agreement nor the claimant either having failed to plead an agreement/account number within its particulars of claim and have therefore sought verification from the claimant.

 

Quote

Also I think they did send the Pre action thing, I didnt actually receive it till after id got the claim as it went to the old address. Should I leave that in still?

 

Yes you didn't receive it.

We could do with some help from you.

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Great thanks, will leave 2 in then, replace 3 and I think its good to go. 

 

This is exactly what I have in my word file ready to send, I think im happy with it and can send to mcol monday morning. Any further thoughts or things to update please let me know.

 

Again thank you both for your help, really is priceless.

 

 

 

 

Defence:

 

1.     The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 

 

2.     The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

3.     Paragraph 1 is noted. It is accepted I have in the past had agreements with New Day LTD RE Aqua. I do not recall the precise details or agreement nor the claimant either having failed to plead an agreement/account number within its particulars of claim and have therefore sought verification from the claimant.

 

4.     Paragraph 2 is noted but until such time the claimant can clarify the agreement account number any breach has yet to be proven.   

 

5.     I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served by either the Claimant or New Day LTD RE Aqua pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

6.     It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant. The Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of the Agreement/Assignment/Default notice or Termination requested by CPR 31. 14, and will shortly be in default of my section 78 request, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a)   show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and;

(b)   show and evidence the breach and service of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974 on which the Termination referred to relies upon.

(c)   show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

(d)   show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

7.     As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

8.     On the 17th of November I requested to The Claimants Solicitors, Mortimer Clarke by way of a CPR 31.14 copies of the documents referred to within the Claimants particulars to establish what the claim is for. Mortimer Clarke have failed to fulfil my CPR 31:14 request.

 

9.     On the 16th of November I made a section 78 legal request to the claimant for a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement. The claimant has as of of 06/12/21 failed to comply.

 

10.  By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

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just copy and paste the text from here or your word file

simples!

 

then get reading up a few 10's of Card Claimform threads here. so you know what MIGHT be to come if they progress the claim, how to deal at each stage and whats next.

 

please use our golden rule mind, dont ever do anything without checking here FIRST.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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