Council refused to take payment for a PCN they've moved to Marstons but I've paid it anyway - what happens now

[chris223b]

I had a PCN (issued in error - I had a valid parking permit and the CEO even took a picture of it) which I had the informal challenge rejected on. However an NTO never turned up, the next thing I got was a charge certificate.

 

I did eventually receive a TE3 and should have put in a TE9 to restart the process and get an NTO.

 

However I was in the processing of moving house (under difficult circumstances actually) and it entirely slipped my mind until today when I found it in a box of papers I was sorting at my new place. The TE3 had to be responded to be 30 September and we're way past that now. Fighting the ticket is obviously a ship that's long since sailed and so I was resigned to having to pay the full whack of £113, so I phoned the council to pay.

 

They state the warrant has now been issued and passed to Marstons for collection. I have mail-forwarding to my new address setup, and also still had physical access to my old address until a week ago when I made a final check for any post which may have slipped through. No bailiff letter has been sent in that time, nor any calling card that might not be forwarded. Unless this is a very new assignment, Marstons have done nothing.

 

The council did the usual council thing of refusing to accept payment because a warrant has been issued and a bailiff had been instructed. I argued that as far as I'm aware if they are owed money under a warrant they cannot refuse to be directly paid for it, regardless of who has got involved.

 

Instead I've logged into their online portal and paid them the £113 directly, for which I now have an email receipt. My understanding is this means/should mean the warrant is satisfied, therefore Marstons don't have a warrant to execute, and if they want any beans out of me they would need to issue a claim form in which they claim for their costs in attempting to collect the debt, which to date are none. 

 

Would this be correct and what actually happens in the real world?

 

 

[dx100uk]

sadly that is not correct

a bailiff does not issue a CCJ, its a fine, nothing to do with county court system.

 

i will suspect that at best a notice of enforcement has been sent by the bailiff giving 7 days to settle @ £75 fee for it.

 

i would pers simply now pay an additional £75 to the council as this fee will be added to the sum you owe them and be taken 1st.

 

marstons could be sending it to your current address as they are expected to carry out reasonable checks.

 

when did you talk to the council and when did you pay £113?

 

 

[chris223b]

Bugger, not working out at all how I thought then.

 

Yesterday on both.

The council point blank refused to accept payment or discuss beyond giving out Marstons phone number.

 

I moved in late September, but ended up with a huge overlap and still had access to my old address until the beginning of November.

 

As of a week ago, Marstons had sent nothing to either my new or old address. I reckon either it has only been allocated to them within the last week, or (possibly more likely) Marstons will not contact me for some time and will later claim they have sent letters that they didn't send to bump their fees up.

 

So the bailiff's fees are paid before the fine?

If I'm going to start paying fees, I wonder if I'm better off just calling Marstons and finding out what they want rather than paying the council what the fee might be.

 

I have a nasty feeling they will proclaim that I will need to pay the £113 again and then both Marstons and the council will deny being responsible for the overpayment. 

[chris223b]

Sorry for the double post. A bit of a development on this. I was going to call Marstons this morning as its my day off and I'd have time to potentially get into an argument over my £113 which I've paid. As of this morning on the council's portal for the PCN the status is now changed to the case is closed and the ticket paid.

 

This presumably means either Marstons have yet to take any enforcement action and therefore there are no fees, or the council took the money for the ticket and didn't pass any part of it onto Marstons for their fees which according to the previous post is what should have happened? Or is it even possible the council claim to have moved tickets to Marstons before they actually do, and Marstons have some sort of data-sharing agreement where if they were called they could have looked the details up and then would claim a letter fee (for a letter miraculously turning up a few days later dated for the day before I called them), but actually they're not even involved yet?

 

Either way, where does this leave Marstons? I can't see how they can execute enforcement action on the Order for Recovery if the council now recognise the order paid and the matter closed. 

 

I haven't yet rung them as if I do I'm sure they will say I do owe them money and also owe them the now settled ticked I've already paid for. Just trying to work out what position I'm actually in and whether I should contact them and if so with what argument. At the very least I would imagine I cannot be liable for any further enforcement costs, only those I may have incurred to date?

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by chris223b

[Michael Browne]

I would stay schtum. But make sure you take a screenshot of the status of the pcn showing paid  -  case closed.

[dx100uk]

it is always worthy never to phone bailiffs ever no matter what the reason.

 

there are some occasions whereby there is no alternative other than to get a payment arrangement going quickly on certain issues and you must phone a bailiff..., then deal with any issue going fwd with the issuing authority directly if there is one to be resolved.

 

yep keep quiet!

[Jamberson]

Couldn't disagree more with the above advice, for two reasons:

 

1. It would be a mistake to think that because the PCN shows as paid on the council's website, your debt has been settled.

 

2. Not phoning the bailiffs is tantamount to burying your head in the sand. I know it's an uncomfortable situation, but you really neeed to meet it head on. The longer you don't, the more likely you will get enforement action and considerable extra fees.

 

No-one has eplained why you shouldn't phone the bailiff. I think you should, you should tell them the situation and hear what they have to say about payment arrangements. You might head off a site visit and big fat charge just by picking up the phone. 

 

It is correct that bailiff fees are deducted first for any part-payment of the entire debt, which is what you made. You made it via the wrong route, and so it might not have gotten through to the bailiff yet - another reason to get into dialogue with them and sort it out. Can't see you have any practical way of avoiding payment for this, but better to get into dialogue and don't let them think you need tracking down - or they will track you down and charge you for the privilege.

[chris223b]

On 19/11/2021 at 19:17, Jamberson said:

 

Development on this...a Marstons Letter turned up yesterday through my mail-forwarding dated 6 November and giving until 26 November to pay £188. 

 

Looked up online, balance of £188 showing but I got home too late to call them. Decided since I still had a few days would call them this evening when I got home from work.

 

Call centre allegedly open until 8PM, but got kicked with an 'office closed' message at 7PM. Looked online again, the reference number is now 'invalid or inactive'.

 

Tried their automated payment line, the reference number 'cannot accept automatic payments', did get placed on hold to speak to someone but left on hold for 20 minutes and guess the office actually has gone home and nothing would have happened.

 

No idea what's going on now!

 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx

[Jamberson]

Just gonna have to keep trying. If you called the payment line, I assume you're prepared to pay the balance, £188 minus £113 already paid = £75. It's definitely best to explain the situation to them, and that you have paid £113 already, or their systems will just show an outstanding balance. They are going to need to know what the situation is so they can close the file.

 

[chris223b]

Yes I'm prepared to pay them the £75 to get them off my back. I have already accepted the ticket is lost through my own stupidity of missing the date on the TE3 and paid the full balance of it. But as it stands none of their automated systems can even look the account up which they could yesterday.

 

I have emailed them copying them in the payment receipt from the council showing the £113 paid. Hoping to get a reply confirming what is owing.

 

I had a 2nd ticket from this council in the same place. Both revolve around the fact that I had a parking permit under a government-issued scheme which was still issued and valid for use until July 2021

 

This is documented clearly in the scheme rules but the council seemed to have confused it as being part of a different government permit scheme which moved to digital permits in June 2020 and as such I had no valid permit.

 

However this did not apply to me, I did not qualify for the newer permit and my existing paper one continued to be valid under the scheme rules until the end date. T

 

The other one, where an NTO was received, I had appealed against. The council rejected the appeal (having already rejected the informal appeal). However when I recently escalated it to the TPT the council then chose not to contest the appeal for the reason 'evidence accepted' (I supplied no evidence and merely referred to their own which should have followed).

 

I have never before known a council to offer no contest to an appeal. I mean, they never turn up at the hearing, but they at least usually send the standard evidence bundle off and leave it to the adjudicator. Not this time. No contest, no evidence submitted. They just ran away from it and I won by default.

 

I do wonder if the council have decided to pull back the case from the bailiff and cancel the ticket (although if they'd done that by now I'd expect a refund).

 

Either way will see what Marstons say tomorrow, assuming I can get hold of them.

[chris223b]

(Better news than expected) update. Eventually got through to Marstons. The council asked for the case back on 15th November, the same day they offered no contest to the other case with the TPT.

 

Marstons stated I therefore owe them nothing. The call handler agreed to dispatch a case returned letter as confirmation.

 

Hopefully that's it!

Edited November 23, 2021 by chris223b

[dx100uk]