HX operator capture vanishing windscreen PCN CCJ - Tesco Car Park, Willowbrook Centre Savages wood road Bradley stoke BS32 8BS

[Aaliyah_11]

Hey,

I am desperate to receive some help from you.

I have just received a letter from HM Courts & Tribunals Service that says that I didn't reply to the claim within stipulated time therefore a Judgement was entered against me.

My story in a nutshell:

I parked at the drop off/pick up area by Tesco.

Note, there was no sign to say that the area is restricted to whatever time. Only a big sign at the entrance of the car park that says that there is a limit of 4 hours along with a very small 2x signs saying exact same thing around a drop off/pick up area (so small that not readable unless you stand vert close to the wall!).

To my surprise 2nd March 2021 received a letter from a private company called HX Car Park Management (Parking Charge Notice) saying that i exceeded the stipulated time and i know owe the parking charge of £100 + their admin fee of £60(ish).

There was a photo of my car on the letter with the timings (the kind of the timing that old school camera displayed in the corner of the photo) and it showed that i parked for 4 minutes too long.

However, the photo didn't even show that i parked at stipulated Tesco address (you couldn't tell its Tesco from the photos) and it didn't show at all any signage around to suggest that there was a limit of 10mis being enforced.

I read loads of forums and decided to follow the majority of the advise that said ignore as they wont take take you to court as it isn't feasible for them to do so an they only count on people who get scared and pay up.

This was followed with 3 letters between 1st May and 16th June 2021 from ADR Legal called

'Notice of debt recovery' (where the charge increased by £100 by now)  then

'Reminder Notice of Debt recovery' and then

' Final notice before we recommend litigation to out client' .

I stood my ground and decided to ignore again. 

17th August 2021 I received a 'Letter before claim from' Gladstone Solicitors threatening me with court and CCJ if I wont pay up. I again decided to ignore. 

Whilst I was away seeing my family abroad I received a Claim form with the cost now being £251 (including court fee and legal representatives cost!) dated 5th October, unfortunately i only saw it end of October upon my return.

I replied to it straight away saying that I am disputing the claim and wont pay any charge and fees and I explained why I don't feel I was at fault.

Unfortunately, even though I sent it recorded delivery, they didn't receive it till 5h November which according to them was outside of the allowed timescale to reply to their claim. 

I am now fuming that the court made a decision that i do owe the money for something that hasn't been properly proved against me!

Now there is an option for me to remove it but application costs £275!

What do I do now?

How do i defend myself without having to pay £275 application fee and going to court?

If I go to court how do i speak to them to defend myself.

They cannot proof I was at fault (as their photos proof don't proof nothing!) but don't know legal lingo to speak up for myself!

Obviously, I don't want to end up with massive court fees + CCJ !

Is there anyone her who can hep me in any way please?

Thanks Aaliyah11

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG.

 

I expect people will be along later to advise. We'll do our best but we can't work miracles, sadly.

 

I hope the advice to ignore a Letter of Claim wasn't on here because we always advise replying. By doing nothing about the claim form, you let Gladstones or HX get an automatic win because you hadn't responded.

 

Maybe someone will think of a way not to have an extra court fee but I think most people on here have had to pay. Let's see.

 

Best,

 

HB

[dx100uk]

have you the claim form still?

please complete this:

 

 

 

 

if free parking was 4hrs and you were within 4hrs 10mins then there is a industry std of min 10 mins grace period.

 

can you scan up ALL LETTERs both side to ONE MASS PDF 

read our upload guide carefully

ensure you remove all your details like name address reg number and any ref numbers of the PCN from ALL LETTERS.

also remove all Bar codes and QRCode boxes and any little tiny lines with numbers up the side of any letter.

 

lastly , not sure where your are getting this is a FINE from, you will not see this on any paperwork not even the court judgement.

it is NOT a FINE.

 

we can undo this but we need the info, most importantly the particulars of claim EXACTLY as written on the claimform.

 

 

[Aaliyah_11]

SIte team,

Thank you for such a speedy reply.

And no, the advise about ignoring wasn't on here.

I have only now found this website and now wish i came across it sooner!!

Wow so it seems like i will have to cough out £261 for something i didn't do wrong:

( that's just ridiculous.. unless i take them to court and defend my case and will make HX to pay my fees back!

Or would it be wise to go now directly to Tesco and complain and ask them to reimburse me for the costs??

Thanks!

Aaliyah11

Hey,

To clarify i was parked there for ONLY 14(ish)mins NOT over 4hrs.

And yes I do have all of the correspondence and yes i will scan and upload as per the guidance.

Thanks !!

Aaliyah11

[dx100uk]

Get all the required info up and we'll move you forward

please dont do anything more to/from anyone like hx or court .

 

we are well used to sorting these but need to get your ducks in line FIRST.

[Aaliyah_11]

SiDX100UK,

 

I am absolutely gobsmacked with the fact that you guys are willing to help me!! And no i will not do a thing from now on!

 

Thanks a million!

Aaliyah11

[dx100uk]

oh one last thing

we dont need to see any of the court stuff like the claimform or the claimform pack with all the various forms like 9 or 9a etc.

just do the sticky Q&A i sent thats all the info we need 

 

but do scan up the judgement for claimant you got

or tell us the date on it and what was judged against you.

[FTMDave]

5 hours ago, dx100uk said:

but do scan up the judgement for claimant you got

or tell us the date on it and what was judged against you.

This is of vital importance.  Please reply immediately to try to avoid a CCJ.

[dx100uk]

re reading post 1 carefully, i'm beginning to suspect this is a speculative invoice for staying at a pick-up point for greater than 10mins?

 

you got the CCJ because you missed acknowledging you got the claim form by 22nd oct if you got it on the 5th Oct as you say?

so your defence was out of time as you did not ACK the claim and by day 20 i suspect a default judgement was applied for.

 

have i guessed right?
 

[Aaliyah_11]

DX 100UK,

I think that is what might have happened (as far as my research goes).

I missed the deadline so as per letter the court automatically applied a judgement against me.

However, according to other sources the letters I have received are NOT from the actual court as apparently they look different (i.e. they have loads of pages, and official stamps etc.).

Also, apparently a judgement cannot be entered against me unless its in court and i have not been provided with a court date at all at any stage.

I will be scanning my docs tonight so hopefully t will shed more light on my case and what has actually happened so far.

Thanks

Aaliyah11

[dx100uk]

7 minutes ago, Aaliyah_11 said:

Also, apparently a judgement cannot be entered against me unless its in court and i have not been provided with a court date at all at any stage.

not true, this is exactly why northants bulk court was setup... all automated ...we call them roboclaim as not human sees anything nor checks anything.

 

you missed AOS, judgement can be applied for on day 20. that then negates any later defence sending even if within 33 days as you dont get the extra 14 days if you dont AOS.

[FTMDave]

You need to tell us urgently the date that the court ordered you to pay the money by.

[Aaliyah_11]

Hey FTMDave,

 

But that is what i am telling there isn't anything to tell me exactly how much and by when. Unless i am missing something.

There is a letter called 'Judgement for Claimant (in default)' dated 1 November (which crossed in mail with their response to my defence) which only says how much I owe and that it needs to be paid to the claimant but it doesn't give me any other info (i.e. what is the deadline or how to pay).

 

I will be scanning all docs tonight.

 

Aaliyah11 

[dx100uk]

the date of the judgement for claimant.

you have 28 days to pay that in full else the ccj is there for 6yrs regardless to paying after 28 days.

 

[Aaliyah_11]

DX 100UK,

The date on the 'Judgement for Claimant' letter is 1 November 2021.

Does it mean that there is no help for me here? 

Aaliyah11

[FTMDave]

No, it's good news.  It means you can still avoid the CCJ.  Pay within the time limit the court orders and you're in the clear.

 

Sadly that would mean the fleecers got paid but at least you would avoid the CCJ.

[dx100uk]

11 minutes ago, Aaliyah_11 said:

Does it mean that there is no help for me here? 

as ftmdave above and 

we cant tell till we see everything.

 

its only the 10th, thats gives a good few weeks to sort your N244 if that is the route to go.

once sent in that stops the CCJ if you win the set aside.

but we dont know yet

 

dx

 

[Aaliyah_11]

FTM Dave and DX100UK,

 

But I dont want them to make money of me as i didn't do anything wrong!

If i pay the set aside can i take HX to court and defend myself there and then? They dont really have a legitimate proof of me being at fault. What are the chances of me winning and making XH pay my costs?

 

Aaliyah11

[FTMDave]

Of course you don't want to pay them and this forum helps motorists, day after day, to refuse to pay these ridiculous charges.

 

But you didn't defend court action and they have judgement in their favour.

 

Anyway, this evening we can see all the documentation, answer your questions, and decide what action to take.

[Aaliyah_11]

FTMDave and DX100UK,

Apology for a delay but it took my a while to scan it .

Hope I did it correctly.

I scanned all the letters I have received to date and its is merged in chronological order (note that the letter dated 1st November crossed with the defence I sent to them.

Also all DPR legal letter has the same revere page as the first one).

Please let me know what my next step should be or if you need anything else.

Much appreciated,

Aaliyah11

extra by DX- 

POC:

1.The driver of the vehicle with registration xxxxxxx (the 'Vehicle') parked in breach of the terms parking stipulated on the signage (the 'Contract') at Willowbrook Centre Savages Wood Road Bradley Stoke 8532 88S, on 2610212021 thus incurring the parking charge (the 'PCN'). 

2.The PCN was not paid within 28 days of issue.

3.The Claimant claims the unpaid PCN from the Defendant as the driver/keeper of the Vehicle.

4.Despite demands being made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.

5.THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS ".
£100 for the PCN, £60.00 contractual costs pursuant to the Contract and PCN terms and conditions, together with statutory interest of £6.60 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 8.00% per annum, continuing at £0.04 per day. 

out of time defence filed by mail in pack  for ref:

The Defendant denies each and every allegation set out in the particulars of claim.

in respect of the POC the defendant denies the allegations as follows:

- that the defendant was in breach of 10 minutes parking limit. the photographic evidence provided by HX car park management ltd dated 2 march 2021 does not proof that the stipulated time limit was indeed in force. there was no signage with time restrictions of 10 minutes neither is HX Management correspondence proofing that.

- that the defendant was parked at the stipulated address the photographic evidence provided by HX car park management does not show or proof that the defendant has indeed parked at the stipulated address.

- as per the above the defendant denies all the allegations and as such refuses to pay any monies which is claimed from her as a result of the stipulated allegations.

 

docs1.pdf

 

stop using the word fine.

its very important you get out of that mindset, it is not one. and can never be one on private land.

 

[Aaliyah_11]

DX 100UK.

 

I know ! but then if it isn't why am i being penalized for something that  doesn't technically exist!

 

Aaliyah11

[dx100uk]

1st mistake they've made

its an operator capture so the PCN should have been attached to your windscreen and a notice to keeper issued between 29-56 days, not issue the PCN by mail within 14 days as if its an ANPR capture.

 

Fines can ONLY be issued by a council or a magistrates court .

 

this as the POC says is a contract issue for money in a county court... a county court nor a private parking company cannot fine you.

 

 

 

 

[Aaliyah_11]

DX100UK,

 

so what is the course of action for me then?

 

Aaliyah11

[dx100uk]

hey we are not a one band show, let the experts concur together going fwd.

[Aaliyah_11]

DX100UK,

 

Of course sorry.

 

Aaliyah11