Jump to content


Backdoor CCJ VCS/DCB(L) spycar PCN - no stopping southend airport


 Share

Recommended Posts

Good evening.

 

I have joined the forum ( and another ) to assist me in my current dilemma. I have 'briefly' outlined the details below.. I have noticed a lot of threads concerning VCSL which has prompted me to post my situation here for some guidance…

1. 6th May 2021 - Letter from DCBL Debt Agency requesting £275 for an unpaid CCJ. They were unable to give me any further details of whom and why the CCJ was in place.

2. I eventually found out that I had received a parking charge from Vehicle Control Services Ltd (VCS) for a contravention - 46 STOPPING IN A ZONE WHERE STOPPING IS PROHIBITED.

3. Contacted VSC who would not engage and directed me back to the DCBL. I am the confirmed driver of the vehicle that day - VCS are aware

4. The charge was dated 09/2019 at Southend Airport

5. I have since had copies of the original Parking Charge Notice (PCN) and the Notice to Keeper (NTK), Final Demand and Letter Before Claim, which confirms all correspondence from VCS was sent to my previous address which I had moved from 9 months previously.

6. Unfortunately I did NOT change the address details of my V5... ( completely didn't register with me, for some unknown reason )

7. I DID however change the details of my driving licence, Council tax, Electoral Roll and utilities at the time of moving.

8. I want to apply for the CCJ to be set aside under 13:2 as mandatory.

10. Do I have grounds to have to CCJ set aside now?

11. VCSL will consent to set aside only after I’ve paid the ridiculously inflated ‘charge’. I offered, without accepting any liability, to pay original charge of £60 but they won’t accept. I have informed them if my intentions to apply without consent.

12. I have a draft application in progress but am unsure if I need to show a draft 'defence'... If so would the defence be me defending the inflated cost of £275, as opposed to the original 'charge' of £60..

(I am clearly shown in photographs as stopping, my wife got out of the car,  albeit very briefly, and would not object to paying the £60 rather than defending it as an unlawful charge.)

13. In my N244 do I need to, or is it ' a good to have' a draft defence ready or do I worry about a draft defence once or if the set aside is granted..?

Please feel free to sign post me if these answers are elsewhere on the forum. I do apologise I am awful around a computer and have difficulty navigating around them.. I have found a huge amount of useful information on my other forum but am struggling to piece it together for me to fully understand...

Kind regards
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you have grounds for a set aside - yes, certainly.

 

Have a read of Zimbird's thread  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/439264-unknown-vcs-ccj-bristol-airport-stopping-in-a-zone-where-stopping-is-prohibited-was-abroad/#comments  who is in a similar situation - CCJ, VCS, airport.  The thread is a bit long but reading it will answer the vast majority of your questions.  Yes, you will need a draft defence and there is a perfect one already drafted in Zimbird's thread.

 

Then come here with a copy of your draft application and we'll look over it.

 

It's a bit concerning that you found about the CCJ in early May and are only applying to the court in early November.  The court expects you to deal "promptly" with the matter.

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • dx100uk changed the title to Backdoor CCJ VCS/DCB(L) spycar PCN - no stopping southend airport

Good morning 

 

thank you very much for this.

 

Yes, the time scale is longer than expected. Unfortunate family issue is main factor and as a side VCSL took over a month to answer initial email.
 

I understand that a set aside under 13:2 is mandatory and promptness isn’t an issue ‘but’ is if under 13:3 - I hope I’ve understood that correctly.

 

I’ll look through today and get things up on the thread on Saturday. I’m hoping to get this all sent of over the weekend.

 

Thank you kindly for your reply.

 

kind regards

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good morning

 

i have attached a draft Witness Statement which may give a better view of the circumstances surrounding this judgment and my actions to date.

 

it is with out names/.addresses and case numbers etc.

 

again, thank you for your interest in this - it’s much appreciated.

 

kind regards

 

2021 non named SetAside Application 2.pdf

Edited by FTMDave
Personal details showing
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

You have put some superb work into this - well done.

 

For me work calls all afternoon but I promise to have a good read through everything this evening.

 

Good idea to send your application off tomorrow if possible.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Firstly, your personal details are visible in a DOCX file.  You might want to remove it and upload again in PDF format.  Best to keep the fleecers guessing.

 

It's just personal taste, but I would slim down the detail of your attempts to strike a deal with VCS.  The judge doesn't need to know about every communication.  I'd just say that you attempted to resolve the matter with VCS but they did not answer for long periods and were uncooperative.  Being vague would also muddy the waters regarding how much of the six-month delay was due to VCS and how much was not, which would be to your advantage.  But that's just me.  By all means include all your exhibits though.

 

Look at post 63 of Zimbird's thread.  There is an attachment called Proposed Defence.  Tweak it and use it as part of your application.  If you can't find it at post 63 scroll a few posts immediately above/below.

 

Look at post 67 (or near) by Site Team member Andyorch which has a draft of the order you want the court to make.  Again, tweak it and use it.

 

There are other regulars here who are extremely knowledgeable about set asides so wait until the last minute tomorrow before the post offices close to see if they pop in and suggest changes (if you are using the post office, maybe you are using another method).

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for your input.

 

I’ll remove and change to PDF - thanks for that, I would never have known.

 

I’m now concerned about the time period… 

 

I’m sitting down with this in the morning and will post up - thank you for your attention

 

much appreciated 

 


 

 

Edited by Ben Bow
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll do it.

 

EDIT - done.

Edited by FTMDave
Extra info added

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

have you the original particulars of claim?

 

excuse my differing advice to my fellow colleagues but that what a forum is all about.

 

don't solely go on the address issue, they quite legally served all doc to the address from the DVLA  at the time of the offence.

they are not legally obliged to exercise due diligence in finding you correct and current address...sorry.

 

there are some 750'000 claimform issued each year, all are called robo claim which are mostly automated PC generated. and so is the court system which is why northants bulk was created. no human is involved nor checks anything.

 

for a set aside you need to meet 2 requirements.

 

1. a valid reason why you didnt receive the original claimform

2 a basic defence for the claim poc.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good morning.

 

Thank you very much for your interest.

 

No I do not have a copy as such. I contacted NCC for a copy but they could only send. Me the contents of in an email, but not the original, or a copy of…

 

They did inform me though that the claim form was sent to my old address…

 

Would this not be a valid reason that I did not receive a copy…? 
 

As much as I’d loath to, maybe the offer from VCSL to pay the ( ridiculous) balance and the £100 consent charge seems my safest option.

 

I can’t have a CCJ…

 

B

 

Good morning.

 

im concerned now that I’m clutching at straws..

 

I was looking to argue a Mandatory sea aside the default judgment under CPR 13.2 on the basis that VCSL failed to take reasonable steps to ascertain my last known address.  I’m aware, from them, that they checked with DVLA ‘but’ that was all they did… Am I clutching at straws here…?

 

I was to argue that the length of time from the first letter and obtaining judgment and lack of response from me, VCSL ought to known that there was a possibility that I was no longer at that address and made another search..?
 

The failure to carry out reasonable check as to my last known address, service of the claim is deemed invalid - and the time limits for filling a defence didn’t expire…

 

My thoughts are if VCSL didn’t completely comply with the rules, and because the claim form went to the wrong address because of this it was invalid service.

 

Is one check of a persons address enough? 
 

DCBL we’re able to locate my current address with the same details available to VCSL - thoughts..?

 

Am I pushing it here…?

 

I’m now thinking I should settle with consent and pay the amount as much as I’d like to fight this injustice, I can’t afford a CCJ to prevent a change in mortgage etc etc etc.

 

B

 

 

 

 

Good morning.

 

Particulars of claim:

 

 

1.CLAIM IS FOR A BREACH OF CONTRACT FOR  BREACHING THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET ON  PRIVATE LAND. THE DEFENDANT'S VEHICLE,      ( number plate ), WAS IDENTIFIED IN THE SOUTHEND AIRPORT ON THE (date ) 2019 IN BREACH OF THE   ADVERTISED TERMS AND CONDITIONS; NAMELY  STOPPING IN A ZONE WHERE STOPPING IS         PROHIBITED.

 

2.AT ALL MATERIAL TIMES THE  DEFENDANT WAS THE REGISTERED KEEPER AND/OR  DRIVER.

 

3.THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS UPON ENTERING PRIVATE LAND WERE CLEARLY DISPLAYED AT THE ENTRANCE AND IN PROMINENT LOCATIONS. 

 

4.THE SIGN WAS THE OFFER AND THE ACT OF  ENTERING PRIVATE LAND WAS THE ACCEPTANCE OF  THE OFFER HEREBY ENTERING INTO A CONTRACT BY CONDUCT.

 

5. THE SIGNS SPECIFICALLY DETAIL THE   TERMS AND CONDITIONS AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF FAILURE TO COMPLY, NAMELY A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE WILL BE ISSUED,

 

6.AND THE DEFENDANT HAS FAILED TO SETTLE THE OUTSTANDING LIABILITY. 

 

7.THE CLAIMANT SEEKS THE RECOVERY OF THE  PARKING CHARGE NOTICE, CONTRACTUAL COSTS AND INTEREST.                                                                                

 

 

I’m preparing my white flag…


Issues:

 

1. Promptness.


13.2 Mandatory set aside: 

 

If successful under a mandatory set aside 13.2 then it’s not an issue ‘but’ I think my argument now feels stretched  in relation to the wrong address and time limits for a defence not expiring.

 

I am considering that VCSL contacted DVLA, albeit only once, and have claimed that they did not receive any mail ‘returned to sender’ which they argue did not give them reason to believe I had moved but that I was ignoring their correspondence, ‘as a lot of people do’ ( their words in an email ).

 

13.3 Discretionary Set aside:

 

I’ll struggle with promptness under a discretionary set aside 13.3 as it’s a consideration along with level of defence etc.

 

I may have a defence but do I have a chance considering the time scale between knowing about the CCJ and applying for the set aside?

 

I could argue that VCSL took time to answer emails and of course it took me sometime to established my options and find out about how to go about it. It was over whelming but that won’t be a defence for the promptness.

As a side, an immediate family member died after a relatively short illness in  September,  which involved me travelling up to Norfolk twice week for 2 months prior. This was a factor in this application taking a rear seat ‘but’ I’m not  sure this would be taken into account considering the time scale.

 

2. Cost. 
 

I could agree to their terms and pay the outstanding balance of £275 plus the £100 set aside cost and clear the CCJ for £375
 

If successful under  Mandatory 13.2. the application fee/cost  (£255) are awarded to me.

 

However, I I doubt I’d get them awarded under 13.3 even if successful. My thoughts, if successful, are that the judge may consider that a check to DVLA was enough ‘not’ to have costs awarded against the claimant.

 

As I understand it cost aren’t automatically awarded under a successful discretionary set aside under 13.3 (?)
 

4. The Principle…

 

The injustice of this concerns me and I feel I should fight this and perhaps make a stand, however, we all know that the law is written and despite my circumstances I have to work to it and not against it. 
 

I overall aim was to remove the CCJ, however, since researching VCSL and the stress of receiving a back door CCJ I have seen a ‘possible’ outcome which may not favour the claimant, which in the circumstances I have, until this morning, been keen to pursue.

 

I need a coffee…

 

B

Link to post
Share on other sites

ok well slow down.

 

you need to read that zimbird thread.

 

6mts is not an excessive time, wont hurt to take time to get it right.

 

just to clarify a few other point.

 

paying the CCJ WILL NOT REMOVE IT.

a settled CCJ is as bad a an unsettled one.

 

as judgement has been handed down its there for 6yrs regardless.

1 CCJ will not hurt mortgages or changes.

 

have you all the documentation from day one 2019 yet?

there might be errors in the VCS docs process

 

send VCS an SAR.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

A number of points.

 

Firstly, under no circumstances pay VCS.  If you do this, you will end up with the worst of both worlds - £275 out of pocket and stuck with the CCJ for six years.  We had a case not long back with someone who took this path, and it was a disaster.  From the point of view of the courts, a set aside is granted partly because the defendant has a case that can be defended.  if you pay you don't have a case that can be defended, you're admitting you owe the money!  Courts consider this "credit cleansing" and you will not get your CCJ set aside.

 

VCS - liars & conmen though they are - have done nothing wrong re the address issue.  They are obliged to ask the DVLA for your address, and have done so.  It was your fault for not updating with the dVLA and you could have got a £1000 fine for not doing so.  Mandatory set aside is out of the question.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your bereavement.  However, as you can imagine, virtually every day we have people on here explaining a  reason for delaying legal action and judges will have heard the same a thousand times and will not be interested.  Sorry.

 

I don't think there is an easy, simple solution to your case.

 

I think the best strategy is to continue with the one you were taking, apply for a set aside and see what happens.  dx in post 9 has pointed out the two points you have to satisfy the judge on, so lay it on thick about you having moved and include proof, and tweak Zimbird's proposed defence to cover your case.  You are both dealign with VCS and no stopping near an airport.  As scribbled above, try to be vague about the period of delay and try to blame VCS.

 

Given the already huge delay something you might want to consider is to wait until 15 November when Zimbird has their set aside hearing.  The forum was originally pessimistic about Zimbird's chance of success, but Zimbird has rolled up their sleeves, put in huge work and gone for it, and Zimbird's success or failure will show what is likely to happen in your case.  Or you might still want to go for it this weekend.  Up to you.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for this.

 

I’ll continue with the preparation and upload later today.

 

I’ll send SAR to VCSL.

 

Confused - VCSL had agreed to a set aside with consent provided I paid the balance in full - I assumed that that would also remove the CCJ as it’s with consent? 
 

Thank you once again for the moral boost.

 

regards

Link to post
Share on other sites

i wouldnt trust them unless they confirm in B&W, but it sounds that way yes.

consent usually means removal.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

We know VCS very, very well here, and it is not a happy acquaintance.  They are absolute crooks who regularly lie to both motorists and the courts.  In a famous case some years back, VCS v Ibbotson, VCS's representative was threatened with imprisonment by the judge.  Fast forward to 2021 and the two paralegals who prepare VCS's court cases on every single occasion make up lies as to why they are "unable" to appear in court.  This doesn't happen sometimes, it happens always, case after case, week after week.  They don't want to appear in court to avoid being questioned - especially by the judge.  This is who you are dealing with.  They are perfectly capable of pocketing your £257 and then forgetting about the set aside.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

thank you

 

Will continue this tomorrow evening at work.

 

Trying to get to grips with a defence now.

 

I’ve misunderstood the whole process I think… the application is purely that, an application to be heard in front of a judge. So long as I can show a suitable defence, and explain why I didn’t respond etc - moved house etc etc.

 

I’ve got myself tied up in the defence and how I will present it at the set aside hearing - from what I understand the defence isn’t looked into as to how strong or weak it is so long as I show a valid defence then that part of the criteria has been met.


The defence becomes the challenge after the set aside has been granted and VCSL pursue the claim from before the judgment was awarded.

 

I think…

 

Thank you both for your interest, it is very much appreciated.

 

I hope I can add value to this site at some time.

 

I’ve read Zimbird’s thread and was also interested in a previous thread from ( can’t recall off hand … ‘Woody’ ?)

 

A point I should have thought to mention is the passenger got out of the car when stopped in the no stop zone. Zimbird thread mentions the driver was stopped and show no one getting in or out of the car…

 

Is that a spanner thrown in…?

 

all the best

 

B

Link to post
Share on other sites

getting out of the car or not is immaterial.

they can't enforce no stopping, not their rule, not their land, not their byelaws. nor can they ever enforce a byelaw.

 

pers i would sit on your hands until you get the VCS SAR back.

 

no rush.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good evening

 

Please... In terms of a draft defence for the purpose of the set aside application is this enough or do I need to more depth?

 

PROPOSED DEFENCE

  1. Locus Standi - the Claimant is not the landowner;
  2. Southend Airport is covered by bye-laws, a traffic violation should be prosecuted in the Magistrates' Court, a private company cannot take it upon themselves to replace the police or magistrates;
  3. I do not believe the Claimant has obtained planning permission for their signs which is a criminal offence and makes it impossible to have formed a contract with the driver;
  4. the Claimant is claiming the debt, legal costs and an extra invented sum as an attempt at double recovery which invalidates the whole claim.

It seems too little information, but I assume its propose is for the judge to see a valid defence should the seta side application be successful?

 

As always, thank you

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good evening

 

As a slight amendment to my last post, would this suffice a draft defence for the purpose of a set aside application...?

 

PROPOSED DEFENCE:

  • It is denied that there is the ability to enter into a contract with the Claimant as the signs which are in place refer to no stopping which it is denied creates a contract for the Defendant to enter into and rather this is a prohibitive notice.
  • Locus Standi - the Claimant is not the landowner;
  • Southend Airport is covered by bye-laws, a traffic violation should be prosecuted in the Magistrates' Court, a private company cannot take it upon themselves to replace the police or magistrates;
  • I do not believe the Claimant has obtained planning permission for their signs which is a criminal offence and makes it impossible to have formed a contract with the driver;
  • the Claimant is claiming the debt, legal costs and an extra invented sum as an attempt at double recovery which invalidates the whole claim.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at the last page of Zimbird's thread  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/439264-unknown-vcs-ccj-bristol-airport-stopping-in-a-zone-where-stopping-is-prohibited-was-abroad/page/5/#comments  where there is a WS with their draft defence.  There are a couple of more points you can add to the points you've already got together.   

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

As you're familiar with Zimbird's thread, I think you should "Follow" it (green button to the right of the thread title).

 

She has her set aside case on Monday, and how it goes could have a lot of pointers on how it might go for you.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...