Parkingeye ANPR PCN - Lidl's, Twyford Road, Eastleigh, Hants disabled

[hollysmum]

A very good morning to everyone!  My father received a PCN last week - he shops regularly at a local Lidl's.  The Notice tells him he was seven minutes over the measly one hour that is allowed in that car park when he drove away on 7th October.  The Notice is dated 15th October.  It's got the usual guff about paying half if it's within 14 days of the date of the Notice.  

 

My father is 91.  He is my mother's main carer - she's 83 and has Alzheimer's and is immobile, and therefore uses a wheelchair.  Because he is stubbornly independent, he won't allow me or my sister to do an online shop for him, hence the weekly shopping trip. 

 

Firstly, he has to find a Disabled space - sometimes, this means waiting a while until one becomes available, or he tries to find an "end" space in the regular part of the car park.  Then, it can take him up to ten minutes to get the wheelchair out of the boot and get my mother into it.  Then he has to find a trolley that attaches to the wheelchair - this has proved difficult, apparently, in the last few weeks, and he said that, this past week, he tried three until he found one that wasn't faulty.  Then they can actually go in and shop. 

 

The store has a system for scanning receipts and then entering your car's registration in order to confirm that you have actually shopped in that store, and not just parked there to potter into the town.  My father says that sometimes, this can take a few minutes, as there are inevitably people waiting to do this, and not all of them a)remember their registration or b)type it in correctly the first time!  Once that's done, he has to get the shopping and my mother back to the car, unload her and the shopping into the car, put the wheelchair back into the car, and then they can finally leave. 

 

I have told him that I'm happy to do an online appeal to Parkingeye on his behalf - do you feel that what I have just outlined would meet with sympathy and understanding, or is there another approach that would result in a favourable outcome for my poor father?  One hour is, I feel, a very tight timescale for anyone in his position, and indeed, anyone who has to cope with someone who is seriously disabled.  I am also tempted to write to the management of the specific Lidl store to tell them that they've got damaged trollies that need attention!  

 

Thank you very much for your time, much appreciated.

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Don't appeal, especially not to Parking Eye because they're highly unlikely to help. I can't remember the last time we recommended appealing because it's normally a complete waste of time.

 

Contacting Lidl about the ticket [and the trolleys] is a good idea though and I think they have got tickets cancelled in the past.

 

I've edited a few paragraphs into your post to make it easier for the advisers to read.

 

HB

[FTMDave]

The good news is that all motorists are allowed a 10-minute grace period, as you have to find a parking space, read the signs, etc.  Therefore your father is legally in the right.

 

As HB says, appealing is a waste of time.  In fact it's worse than a waste of time, your father would likely throw away legal protection under the Protection of Freedoms Act.  PE know full well about the grace period, but are trying it on anyway.

 

As far a PE go - ignore them and their follow-up "threatening" letters.

 

Get on to the CEO of Lidl  [email protected]  and demand they remove the charge.  About a year ago we had a number of successes with Lidl with this strategy, although more recently one Cagger went down this route and got nowhere.  Still, worth a try. 

[hollysmum]

Thank you both very much for your responses.  I've just fired off an email to the address given by FTMDave, and a letter to the actual store about their rubbish wheelchair trollies is on its way, too.  Fingers crossed!

[brassnecked]

If he is Blue Badge, their one hour is  insufficient anyway even though Disabled Bay is tarmac graffiti, Lidl can be held to account as FTM dave says for failure to make a reasonable adjustment and Parking Eye can't do much 7 minutes is de minimis due to minimum 10 minute Grace, so would be silly to try court especially as BB involved.

[dx100uk]

can you please complete this

 

and scan up all letters in/out bothsides to one mass pdf read our upload guide carefully.

then we can advise you properly.

 

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

I am sorry that your father has fallen foul of the crooks that call themselves Parking Eye. 

My wife is disabled and we use Aldi click and collect at times so that my wife orders what she wants on line and I go to Aldi and pick it up without going in to the store. This gets round your Father having to get the wheelchair out of the car and putting it back later. Alternatively both Asda and Sainsbury do have some stores that have mobile wheelchairs instore which would eliminate getting the wheelchair in and out of the car plus it gives your Mother the freedom to move around the store on her own.

 

In the meantime, dx100uk has asked that  you fill in the form above which will help us fend off Parking Eye if Lidle should fail. 

 

 

 

 

[hollysmum]

Hi, dx100UK - for some reason, I couldn't fill in the form, so here are my replies to the relevant questions:

Date of "infringement" - 7/10/21

Date on NTK - 15/10/21

Received by my father on 23/10/21

Schedule 4 is mentioned, yes

There is a photo showing the car entering the car park, and one of it exiting

No appeal lodged thus far

Therefore no response received

Company is Parkingeye

Location of car park - Lidl's, Twyford Road, Eastleigh, Hants

They operate under BPA.

 

My mother is the Blue Badge holder, my father, obviously, is the driver.  

I don't have any pictures to upload, sorry - I don't have a printer/scanner as I'm still stuck working at home

 

I have already had a reply to my email to LIdl Head Office asking them to arrange to cancel the charge.  They say to appeal as detailed on the reverse of the PCN - why am I not surprised??!!  I hope this is at least of some assistance. 

 

Thank you very much.

[dx100uk]

await to see if PE issue a letter of claim.

 

use your mobile phone or a digital camera

read our upload guide it tells you how there.

 

we need the NTK bothsides to one pdf only

 

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

Can you account for the PCN taking 8 days to reach your parents. 

[hollysmum]

No, I can only imagine, lookinforinfo, that it is the currently bizarre postal service.  It is really irritating, as, of course, the notice states that you can have a 50% discount if you pay within 14 days of the date of the notice, and it would leave only 6 days for him to do that, should he choose to.

 

dx100UK - I'm hoping that this upload is OK?

 

My thanks again for your trouble. 

PCN Lidls October 2021.pdf

[brassnecked]

Seven minutes they would be very silly to try court on that.

[hollysmum]

I like to think so, too, brassnecked!

[dx100uk]

you need to remove the pcn number title on page one

and reg number on page 2 please

 

its also imp we see all the page text as words are important to pofa compliance

[lookinforinfo]

Interestingly enough that car  park used to allow 90 minutes free parking back in 2018 when Athena were the parking company. I am 100% certain that the change was not authorised by the Council and doubtful that the 90 minutes was authorised either.

 

 

How long can you park in Lidl car park?

90 minutes

"The system allows for up to 90 minutes of parking, with a 10 minute grace period, should a customer change their mind. "To validate parking, customers can simply scan their till receipt and register their vehicle at one of the terminals in the store."6 Oct 2018

 

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk › whats-on › shopping › lidl..

[FTMDave]

I've noticed a pattern with these supermarket cases where the supermarket fobs off the first complaint.  It's only motorists who follow up that get anywhere.

 

So I suggest you get nasty now.  E-mail them again.  No way is your father going to waste his time with a kangaroo court appeals procedure where the fleecers investigate themselves.  Lidl are the organ grinder.  About time they faced up to their responsibilities as they invited these vermin to infest their car parks.  Your dad refuses to pay.  When court action ensues he will add Lidl as a third party.  The local press will also be invited to court to publicise how Lidl treat a 91-year-old just doing his shopping accompanied by his wife who has Alzheimer's.  The same goes for the fact that Lidl and the fleecers are breaking the criminal law by pretending there is a 1-hour limit when the original planning permission stated otherwise.*  Plus their breach of equality law.  All this unpleasantness could easily be avoided by Lidl calling their dogs off.  Etc.

 

Now you still might not get anywhere since, as already scribbled, Lidl recently seem to have had a change of policy, but worth a go.

 

*This is a bluff as you don't know for sure, but it is highly, highly unlikely that the original planning permission for a supermarket only allowed one-hour free parking.  When you get time look up what the original PP was on your local council's portal.  EDIT  I was just about to post this when the cavalry arrived in the form of LFI.  So confirmation that Lidl/the fleecers have defied PP and just made up their own limit.  So, not a bluff at all.  Still look up the original PP though, I bet it was longer than 90 minutes.

 

Even if the above doesn't work, simply don't pay.  As BN says, if this ever got to court the judge would kick it out in about a quarter of a second on the grace period alone.

[hollysmum]

FTMDave - I have just sent an email back to Lidl's head office - they did the inevitable "fob off" response, telling me to appeal via Parkingeye.  I have pointed out the ten minutes "grace", and the fact that my father was a mere seven minutes over the hour, and asked again that they arrange for the PCN to be cancelled.

[FTMDave]

Well done.  Nothing ventured ...

[Bazooka Boo]

Give the local authority a ring or email and ask them if PE have obtained planning permission for the signage and cameras they have put up in the car park, also whether they obtained permission to dictate the parking time, NO is the answer I suspect you'll get back.

 

 

[hollysmum]

Will do, Bazooka Boo!

[brassnecked]

Also mention to Lidl if they say appeal to PE again, thell them they will become involved in any court case PE might initiate, as the 1 hour could breach EA 2010 as they were disabled and 1 hour is insufficient time for a BB person to shop, and a 7 minute overstay is de minimis for an able bodied person due to grace period, but might constitute failure to make reasonable adjustment for a disabled person.

[hollysmum]

Hi again, brassnecked - thank you very much for that.  I've asked the local council if they can tell me if Parkingeye applied for any sort of permission to impose a one hour limit for free parking.  It really is the fact that my parents are both elderly, and my mother is disabled that has seriously annoyed me about this - it seems incredibly petty, apart from anything else, and no, it certainly isn't reasonable for people in their position.  

[hollysmum]

A little update, with my thanks to all of you who have responded thus far.  DX100UK - I am just tweaking the information you need, and my apologies for the omissions you pointed out.

 

I have had confirmation that the signs in the car park at Lidl's state that, as long as you enter up your registration details and scan your receipt into one of the terminals instore, you have 90 minutes free parking. 

 

My father is adamant that he did this on 7th October - they shop there every week, and I can't see a reason why he wouldn't have done this. 

 

I think there is a small possibility that he might have put his registration in wrongly, but he will most certainly have proof of the shopping transaction on his bank statement, even if he doesn't still have the receipt.  

 

Interestingly, the company name on the signs in the car park shows as "Athena", not ParkingEye......

[dx100uk]

well if they say athena..thats gameover!

 

dx

[hollysmum]

Really, DX?  It's that simple? If so, I think a large gin might be in order later today!!!