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Problems with painter & decorator


Hael
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No.

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Okay, I understand that there is another assessment outstanding – is this correct?

I've only read it very briefly but there doesn't seem to be any quote for remedying the problem

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"To Eradicate this issue on the Ceilings &  walls, T&D Decorators would recommend a Durable Acrylic Matt on the walls and a Vinyl Matt paint based on what Mr X has stated he requires,(  IE a wipeable product ), Standard preparation required  The  redecoration of 4 nr bedrooms, hall stairs and landing, bathroom, toilets, living room and conservatory, kitchen and dining area in two coats of a product agreed with Mr X will be £3,900.00 plus V A T, Protect all new glossed woodwork with masking tape, prepare all walls to receive 2 full coats of a product agreed with the Client, protection to all New carpet & Vinyl included with this cost quotation  T&D Decorators Limited have submitted a full quotation as instructed by Mr X"

^This is in the pdf file I uploaded, would this be suffice?

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Sorry.. Im not sure if I totally understand what you meant that there is another assessment outstanding?

If you mean the fixing of the ceiling at the extension (not the paint), T & D only does painting so he could not provide me with the quote for fixing the ceiling at the extension.
I have one painter who can also fix the ceiling at the extension for me, and he will mention about the ceiling at the extension in his quote. He will specify how much the painting for the walls and ceilings would be, and how much the fixing of the ceiling at the extension would be.
I have also booked a plasterer who has promised to come tomorrow afternoon to access the ceiling and give me a quote for fixing it.
Attached is the updated quote from T & D attached in the report & quote email.

Quote from T & D.pdf

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Anything. I'm asking you if you have all the quotes you need to address all the problems – whether they are one job, two jobs or 10 jobs. Do you have all the independent assessments you need and all the quotes for the work so that we can continue.

As I see that you have booked a plasterer who is coming along to give you another quote, I take it that you don't yet have all the quotes that you need

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Sorry but I don't know how to explain to you better.

You had a decorator to do certain work. He did the work badly.

You have a list of all the things that were done badly.

Have you had an independent opinion on every item on that list corroborating that it was done badly, what steps are needed to put it right and how much it is going to cost?

 

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I think the closest that I have is the report that I got right there, the steps that are needed to put it right is to repaint them all with a wipeable product, with standard preparation, which is stated in the report, and the cost is there.
I havent got all the quotes yet, as in, Im going to get at least one more quote & report from another painter (who would also do the ceiling as well), and a quote & report from a plasterer.

Sorry, I shouldve stated more clear that I was just updating about what I got right now. Ill update here when I get the other quotes as well.

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As long as you understand that if this goes to court, the judge will want to see what you are claiming and will want to see evidence to support every item or every cost that you think you are entitled to.

If anything is missing then you will be able to support that portion of your claim.

It's a simple as that.

If you going to a restaurant and you find that some items on the menu don't have any price, what you do?

I don't really understand why this is such a difficult thing to understand

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Ah, do you mean the "quality concerns" at the last paragraph of the report? Like the caulking, woodwork and stuffs?
I didnt get a quote for those because my main concern was originally just the paint from walls (and ceilings was found to have the same issue as well) can be washed off. Then the trusted trader came, apart from my main concern, he - as a professional, also picked up all those workmanship issues as extra information to prove that the whole house was done without proper care/preparation, nor with good workmanship at all.
I can contact the trusted trader and he can provide with me another quote, just to fix those extra "quality concerns". Would this be suffice?

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You need to identify every fault and get a solution and a quote for everyone of them.

You need to know the complete situation – not just the bits that you choose

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I didnt get a quote for the wood work because I thought those are more minor issues and cannot be claimed.

My main concerns were the paint on walls and ceilings that can be easily washed off, and the improper fixing of the conservatory/extension ceiling. The quality concerns part was some extra information T&D - from a professional point of view - provided me to be used as a stronger argument, stating that not only the wrong/improper paint was used, but also, how poor the work was done by Decor development. Also, most of the smaller issues (uneven surface, lacking sanding, caulking missing, etc.) would be taken care of in the repainting & redecorating process (for example, more attention paid to ceiling and wall line, proper preparation done, caulking done properly etc.)
There are hundreds of little bits of bad bits like that in the house everywhere, it would be quite impossible to identify every single bit of those issues. I think I can split them into three main areas:
1. Wrong paint being used on walls and ceilings, paint can be washed off, poor workmanship and attention to details.
2. Ceilings at the extension/conservatory is not fitting properly, metal corners missing, redoing them will also require repainting (a plasterer came today to look at it and will give me a quote+report later)
3. Glossed woodwork done by the painter, lack of masking tapes used, missing caulking, etc.

I believe I can get a quote for all 3 of them.


Also, one of the painter has already started the work in my house, would that be an issue at all? (I did take all the videos and photos evidences I could already.)

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You can claim for every piece of shoddy workmanship by your your contractor and you should do.

 

It will actually make it much more complicated if you start picking and choosing what particular aspects you think of elephants and which you you think are not relevant.

 

You are already making things much more complicated for yourself but in particular for us.

 

 

Can't you simply get information relating to all the defects. 

 

It would be lovely if you would just make our lives simple.

 

This discussion is starting to go on far too long and take for too much time and it is getting in the way of moving onto the next step of making your claim

 

 

 

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Sorry about this... 
I wasnt really picking and choosing what to claim, it is just that at first, I thought only the paint at the walls are being washed off.
Then the traders came and told me there are quality issues with the painting and decorating not only on the walls, but woodwork as well. Then I found out the paint at the ceilings are being washed off as well. Then another trader realised the ceilings were not done properly either. Hence why I did not state everything at the beginning, it was because I only found all those issues later on, after the professional traders came and found them out for me. 

And like I said, I thought some are more minor issues and cannot be claimed.

Also, the complaint letter I sent them 3 weeks ago, I only mentioned about the painting at the walls being washed off issue, and some quality issues about the painting work (since I didnt know anyhing about the ceiling paint being washed off, the improper ceiling fixing issues, and the poor woodwork done). Would this be an issue? 

I am still hunting for the quotes and possible reports, people are not very keen on doing them.

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Don't worry about the complaint letter.

Once again – and for the nth time – get a full assessment of the entire job and get an opinion on every aspect of it, every defect, get an opinion as to every solution needed to address the problem and a quote.

You really are making this very difficult for everybody here.

 

We have been giving you the same advice for about 10 days now and all we are doing is repeating ourselves and you don't seem to understand.

Get the whole job assessed and get a quote for producing the whole job to the condition that it should have been if it had been correctly carried out.

Stop trying to identify minor items and major items – to an extent it has nothing to do with you. Get the whole job assessed

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I am really trying my best to get the quotes and also the assessment report of the job, but it has been very difficult for me as the numbers of local trusted traders are very limited in my area, and a lot of them refused to do it/said they would do it then never replied again/dont even pick up the phone. Also, not many people do all the work, and some can only access part of the job.
So far, the only assessment report that I got is the one from T&D that I uploaded.

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I understand the difficulty of getting the quotes. We've seen this kind of thing before.

What has been exasperating is that you seem to have set out only to get partial quotes on issues which you considered were important and deliberately omitted other items which you considered were of less importance.

As long as you now accept that we need an assessment of the entire job – then that will be a good start. After that I agree it will be difficult to persuade people to quote for a job when they aren't sure that they are going to get the work. That's why you may need to pay a fee to them and hopefully you will manage to recover this as well when you make your claim.
I'm afraid that it's all a slog that you need to understand exactly what you're claiming for

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I just had another plasterer came on Sat and he stated that he can only provide a quote, but not a report, he said he will only do the report if he is told by a solicitor.


So far Ive contacted all the local trusted plasterer I could find from different trusted websites, and no one seems to be available to do the report for me for the plastering part.

However, the few ones who came to look, all commented it was “bad work” done by Décor Development. (I offered to pay them but they still don’t want to do it.)


For now, I can probably only get one assessment report about the plastering work that was done, and it will be from the painter & decorator who could do the painting work, and also some plastering work for me.
He is not really a “professional plasterer”, but did have experience at plastering, hence why he was the one who spotted the plastering issue for me when he was here accessing the painting issue.

 

I did some research online, there seems to be no set qualification for plasterers in the UK, everyone can be a plasterer after they gathered some work experience working as an assistant or by doing an apprenticeship.

 

How would the court determine if a report is trustable or not?

 

I forgot to mention about this earlier: the painter & decorator has already started the painting job upstairs for me.

If the painter & decorator already performing the work for me, would their report be considered not trustable enough?

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Bad news, the painter & decorator who has now done the work for me for upstairs painting of walls and ceilings (no woodwork), said he cant send the report to me anymore, because he was told by his accountant that "he doesnt have the right to do official reports for courts" 
I thought assessment report has to be from local trader and that would be enough? So who can I get the help from?
The best that I can get now would just be quotes with very brief descriptions of what people would be doing.

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I'm sorry, I haven't been very engaged with the thread once again. However I see that you say that you "forgot" to tell us that you had a painter decorator already repairing some of the defective work.

Basically this means that you forgot to tell us that all the evidence of the defective work is being covered up so that there is no opportunity for the defendant to carry out his own inspection and to produce his own independent report – if he so chooses.
I'm astonished that you've done this – and particularly that you didn't discuss it with us in the first place.

Also, the painter and decorator report would not be an official report to be used in court. He would simply be an independent report to supply to the other side and they could then make their own comments.

Secondly, the painter and decorator's accountant is completely wrong. There is absolutely nothing to prevent you from providing any statement to the court and it is up to the court as to how much weight they want to place upon the report.

If the accountant really said that to the painter and decorator then the accountant is completely wrong – he doesn't nobody is talking about.
The other possibility is that the painter and decorator is making this up in order to avoid getting involved.

However, it's a very serious setback that you have now set about carrying out work for which you want to claim reimbursement without giving the other side opportunity to carry out their own inspection.

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Im very very sorry about this, how careless and stupid I was to have trusted the painter and went for it without asking you first.

The paint of the walls and ceilings of upstairs bedrooms, bathrooms, and the hall stairs & landing, has been done now. Woodwork is untouched. All work has now been stopped and would not be continued.

All downstairs issues still exist, including: paint of the walls and ceilings of living room, conservatory, toilet, paint of the ceilings of kitchen, dining room and utility room. All woodwork. The bad plastering work of the ceiling in the conservatory.

Also, Ive taken photos, and videos tour showing defects in all the rooms before the painter and decorator started the work. Including the paint being washed off with damped cloth, and hundreds of bits of bad work done by Decor Development.

The painter and decorator also helped taken photos for me.

As Ive mentioned before, I did mention some of the painting issues, together with the bad paint issue to Decor development before, and he refused to fix them, stating: "you didnt have any problems before". I asked him to come and fix the whole house, he refused as well, and stating the best he could do would be just the walls of the two small toilet/bathroom, but eventually he didnt even come either. I did mention all these in the complaint email I sent him before. He never replied, would that count?

Also, according to CitizenAdvice, I should be sending Decor Development the second letter before proceeding to the court. Shall I do it now?

 

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If you have decided to start relying on help from citizens advice – then I suggest that you stay with them and not come to us.

Try to take advice from two different sources only needs to confusion and sometimes even conflicting advice.
 

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Ah sorry, thats not what I meant, I called them up before someone I knew recommended you guys to me (the advice I got was before I know about you guys). Im sticking to you guys.

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