Problems with painter & decorator

[BankFodder]

What is the date of the email that you received where it said that he was a limited company?

[Hael]

It was 18th Aug 2021 Wed, he suddenly became Ltd on that day.

[BankFodder]

So this was after you entered into the contract with him. Is this the date that he incorporated the company?

[Hael]

I am not sure... where can I check that?

[BankFodder]

The quotes that you have posted above –

The first one is simply a quote for work to be done. It makes no reference at all to the existing job and the quality of it.
I'm afraid that no help at all.

The second quote is good. It starts to analyse the quality of the work that had been done – why is incomplete. You need to inspection reports like this coupled with quotations for remedial work.

Until you get these, you are not ready to go.
 

[Hael]

https://youcontrol.com.ua/en/catalog/gb-card/13412225/

Bad news.
Incorporated on    Thursday, 20 May 2021

 

The trader of the first job stated that he can provide it to me later (but probably has to be after I accepted his quote).
So I will need 3 quotes with reports to go to the next step?

 

I just realised I only uploaded half a page of the T & D report and quote.

 

[BankFodder]

I don't think you should worry. There is nothing there to suggest that he traded with you is a limited liability company. His website doesn't say anything about it. His quotation doesn't anything about it. And the only thing that says anything about it is the invoice which refers to a bank account in the company name.

By that time the contract had already been made and so you trade with him as a trading individual.

Of course he will try to raise this as a defence and he will try to say that you are seeing on entity and eventually when there is an enforcement he will try to say that you should be enforcing against the limited liability company – but if you get the judgement against him in person then I don't foresee any problem.

As I have already said, keep in writing to his normal business address but when we issue a claim, it will be against him at his home address. 

 

The inspection which you have eventually put up in its complete form is very good.

Ideally you should get a second assessment of equal quality before launching your claim against Rick Burns

 

 

[BankFodder]

Get at least one further inspection and quote for remedial work – as a matter of priority.

 

[Hael]

So even though his invoice email suddenly became Ltd like this, is no problem at all?
That would really be a BIG relief.
I should be able to get the quote+a complete report of similar quality as the one I already had, from my second trader.
I am also trying to get a quote from a third trader, but I am not very sure if I can get a complete report from the third trader.
Also, like I mentioned before, T&D is a painting company only, so they cannot provide a quote for the fixing of the ceiling (at the extension) for me. They could only provide me a quote for the repainting of ceilings and walls.
While the quote that INOL provided, includes all the repainting of ceilings and walls, also the fixing of the ceiling at the extension. Would that be a problem when this is being presented to the court? Do I need to find another trader just for the plastering?

 

[BankFodder]

Well you need quotes for everything – because clearly you are going to have to address the whole job in your claim.

I think you need to prioritise this and get these inspections done PDQ.

I don't think you can go forward on this until you get these independent assessments done.

[Hael]

I see, how many should I have for each of them? At least 2 for each of the issues?

[BankFodder]

Ideally you want to independent quotations for the whole job. If that means that the job has to be divided into two distinct parts then you need to quote for each part.

The whole point of this is to get quotes which broadly corroborate each other.

 

[Ethel Street]

10 hours ago, BankFodder said:

So this was after you entered into the contract with him. Is this the date that he incorporated the company?

 

According to the Companies House information on the link in Post #19 Decor Developments Ltd was incorporated on 20 May 2021.

[Hael]

1 hour ago, Ethel Street said:

 

According to the Companies House information on the link in Post #19 Decor Developments Ltd was incorporated on 20 May 2021.

This is what I am worried about as well... but he never mentioned being a Ltd while dealing with me, and suddenly became Ltd when asking me to pay.

 

3 hours ago, BankFodder said:

Ideally you want to independent quotations for the whole job. If that means that the job has to be divided into two distinct parts then you need to quote for each part.

The whole point of this is to get quotes which broadly corroborate each other.

 

Is it ok if the quote mentioned about the price for the ceiling job separately from the painting job?

[BankFodder]

In terms of the quotes, it doesn't matter at all that they are separate. Don't worry about it.

In terms of his limited liability status – he didn't trade with you is a limited novelty company so stop worrying about that as well. I think I've already said this much earlier on and so I think you are starting to obsess over it.

What will be funny of courses if he tries to say to the court that he trader is a limited liability company because on the evidence that we have from you, he would be telling porkies

[Hael]

So, even though his company was indeed a Ltd, however, he did not mention about it anywhere else while quoting, therefore it doesnt count?

About the quotes, like I said, I am not really able to find several quotes that includes all the job (lets divide them into two parts: A) the painting of walls and ceilings B) the fixing of the plasterboard at the extension ceiling)
T&D can only do "A" for me, so the quote and report that Ill get from them would only be about "A".
INOL can do both "A" & "B" for me.
So in order to get quotes which broadly corroborate each other, is it ok for me to get just one more plastering company to quote (and write a report) for "B", and ask INOL to clearly divide the job (and report) into two parts, so that I will have 2 quotes for each part of the job to compare?

[BankFodder]

I'm sorry I've already told you the situation in respect of his limited liability status on at least two occasions. Please don't keep on obsessing about it and I certainly won't be repeating myself all the time.

Exactly the same thing about the quotes. You keeping asking the same question I keep on giving the same answer.

Ask us again and it will be the same answer

[Ethel Street]

23 minutes ago, Hael said:

So, even though his company was indeed a Ltd, however, he did not mention about it anywhere else while quoting, therefore it doesnt count?

 

The contract was made when he emailed you an 'offer' (the quotation) on 26th July and you 'accepted' it by text the same day. The 'offer' was not from the limited company as there was no 'Ltd' shown in the offer email. See what the experts here think if/when you need to issue formal proceedings but I'd say you were contracting with 'Ricky Burns trading as Decor Developments' not Decor Delopments Ltd. Once the contract was made on 26th July he cannot change it to Decor Developments Ltd. That would be transferring it to a different legal entity, which is not allowed (not wihout your agreement or a court order anyway).

 

So as BF says, don't fret about the Limited company issue, we can see how that can be dealt with. Now you need to focus on the quotations etc. 

[Hael]

I see, thank you very much. Sorry for repeating the same questions myself!
Im working on getting the quotes now

[Hael]

Is it ok for me to delete some of the files here with my name and address on? (I can re upload a version that blacken my name and address later on.)

[BankFodder]

3 minutes ago, Hael said:

Is it ok for me to delete some of the files here with my name and address on? (I can re upload a version that blacken my name and address later on.)

Done.

Please upload redacted versions

[Hael]

Thank you very much BankFodder, Ill do it very soon (at work now :P)

[Hael]

Blackened version of the Invoice and the quote.
Ill reupload the blackened version of the reports and quotes from the other traders once I got the renewed version from them.

Invoice (blackened).pdf Quote (blackened).pdf

[BankFodder]

The word is "redacted" not "blackened"

[Hael]

Hi, just an update:
Im still trying to get the two renewed quotes from the two painters. (One should be arriving very soon, another one will probably arrive next week when he comes to perform the work for me)
Im able to find a plasterer (finally) who promised to come and have a look and give me a report tomorrow.