Sue Royal Mail for marking as delivered ?

[jimmer68]

My package from AliExpress was marked as delivered by Royal Mail (when it wasn't) and unfortunately email notice of that went into a spam folder (that my email provider set-up without asking me!). So it wasn't until 3 weeks later that I started looking for where these items were and found the Royal Mail tracking info via AliExpress. 

 

The delivery office was marked as Hayes (Essex), I'm in Bristol.  It turns out, confirmed by Royal Mail, that the package was returned to sender for undisclosed reason  (note that the tracking info has my address, so they knew where it should be delivered to).

 

Ali-Express refused my refund request as it was marked Delivered.  Royal Mail customer service said "I'm afraid we will be unable to amend the details on our tracking system as the item has been delivered back to the sender. You may wish to contact them if you still require the item."

 

They didn't reply to my next question:  What are you going to do to correct the mis-information on your tracking system in cases like this?   "Delivered" is not an acceptable final entry when it hasn't been delivered  (It's not an acceptable non-final entry either).

 

What do people think?   Can I sue Royal Mail for my £40 loss, as their misinformation was the root cause of my loss. 

 

I'm obviously motivated by the fact that they don't seem to give a toss, and I'd like to incur some costs on them.

 

What would be my approach?  I'm thinking to start with I should reply again to the customer service reference and ask them to inform their legal department that I intend to sue them for my loss.

 

I'm wondering whether to also try to claim via VISA, they were useless last time I had a problem though.

 

thanks,

 

[FruitSalad1010]

Could you provide a detailed breakdown of your loss and why it totals £40?

 

Has the sender confirmed they have received the item in return?

 

If the seller has your item and has confirmed this and if it was purchased from a distance i.e. over the internet (although even if it wasn't) they have your item and your money. You need to seek relief from the seller not from the delivery company.

[jimmer68]

Aliexpress has rejected my refund claim (and the appeal).

 

I might be able to get it back via VISA, but Royal Mail are the bad guys here. 

 

[dx100uk]

37 minutes ago, FruitSalad1010 said:

Has the sender confirmed they have received the item in return?

 

[jimmer68]

 

"Has the sender confirmed they have received the item in return?"

 

This was a sensible question, I hadn't asked them because:

 

When I discovered that the parcel had been supposedly delivered it was 3 weeks after that date. I went to 'My Orders' on AliExpress and found the tracking. The tracking didn't mention Royal Mail, just AliExpress Standard Shipping.  So at that point AliExpress were the people I paid, and they were also the shipper, so the disagreement was just between the 2 of us, it didn't even involve the seller. Therefore I submitted my refund claim using their system, not with any great hopes but I could at least ask if they had any evidence for delivery.

 

Anyway, I've just now spent some more time in their automated system, and this time I managed to get to a human. So I've now been able to supply them with my evidence from Royal Mail saying that the item was returned to sender, and also their refusal to change the Delivered status. The CS agent is going to 'try to get the refund for me' 

 

Note: I don't know who Royal Mail sent it back to, because I don't know if the sender was the Seller or Aliexpress.

 

 

[FruitSalad1010]

I'm beginning to understand the problem you face, I suggest researching some other aliexpress threads or even ebay threads.

How did you pay for the goods? If it was direct debit consider a chargeback if it was credit card consider a section 75 claim.

[FruitSalad1010]

Debit card*  not direct debit.

[jimmer68]

I still want to pick a fight with Royal Mail though.  I'm thinking that whether Aliexpress or VISA refund me or not I might still go after RM for my time that they caused to be wasted. I want to somehow make them change their system to not say things have been delivered when they haven't been.

 

I've drafted a message asking for the procedures to raise it higher within RM, the details of any regulator/ombudsman I can complain to, and for them to inform their legal department that I will be making a claim for my losses.

[FruitSalad1010]

In order to bring a claim you will have to demonstrate a loss. I think in this instance it will be fairly easy for RM to convince a judge that despite their short comings - which they are unlikely to admit and you will have to prove - that they are not liable for the loss as they do not hold your goods.

The first and foremost way to attribute liability when you do not receive goods you have paid for is to the seller under Consumer Contract Regulations 2014 and the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

I think you will in some way have to demonstrate that you have exhausted all other avenues to recover your money as well as demonstrate that the reason you cannot recover your money is the fault of RM before you can bring a claim against them.

 

Imagine you are facing the question from a judge in court as to why you did not request your money back from either the seller, Aliexpress or Visa. The answer - because I wanted to stick it to RM isn't going to wash.

You have already taken steps by attempting to address this with Aliexpress. Let them exhaust their process of obtaining your refund from the vendor and when that fails I think you should still attempt to receive your money back via either a charge back or section 75 claim. If this does not work and you have been provided with a reason that leads to RM being liable then I think you have a much stronger chance of succeeding than if you pursue RM first before exhausting all other avenues first.

 

I think it will be reasonable for a judge to expect that you first sought relief under the lawful protections that are afforded to you. You will also find that RM are very well protected and afforded special immunity from liability in tort as a provider of a universal service so if/when you do bring a claim it has to be brought correctly.

Edited October 15, 2021 by FruitSalad1010

[jimmer68]

Technically I had exhausted the process with Aliexpress, they had rejected my appeal of their original decision.

 

If my latest try with AliExpress fails, I'll go through the process with VISA. Last time I tried VISA they were useless to me; they accepted the sellers packing note as proof of sending and ignored the fact that the weight recorded by JapanPost wasn't enough to cover the claimed package contents.

 

But this is all more of my time being spent putting right a problem caused by Royal Mail lies.

 

special immunity from liability in tort doesn't sound good for me !

[The GodMother]

I buy off aliexpress. Trust me AliExpress are a law to themselves. 

Its AliExpress that automatically mark a item as received based on the assumption that as its past the delivery date it must be delivered. 

 

I have a order that has been stuck at customs for 3 weeks but according to Aliexpress it is delivered. Please remember AliExpress are the middle man. Like Ebay and Esty. They provide a platform for sellers to sell on, for a fee, and as result they think they are above the law. In fact they have also claimed to not have to follow uk law as they are not in the uk. 

[jimmer68]

Well, not in this case. The reason they say it is delivered is because the Royal Mail tracking says Delivered.

 

They've just replied saying the same things:

Appeal rejected because tracking says delivered.

I didn't provide proof on non-delivery in the dispute.

 

Proof of non-delivery is one of those things that would appear impossible, however I have managed to get it in this case.

 

I've advised them that I'll be opening a case with VISA.

 

And I'm logging my hours in case I end up claiming from RM. 

 

 

[The GodMother]

Have you asked AliExpress where rhey are getting the tracking details from and have you sent them proof of what you can see on Royal mails tracking

[jimmer68]

The AliExpress tracking info just restates the Royal Mail tracking info. 

 

For anyone interested:

https://www.royalmail.com/track-your-item#/tracking-results/QP036375212GB