thereshope! v natwest ****WON****

[thereshope!]

Is there anybody there !

 

Or is everyone out on the lash lol:D

 

Please can someone have a little read of my POC to put my mind at rest ?

 

pretty please with cherries on top

 

Hope xx

[maxine989]

Hi hope... I reckon everyone is out on the lash like you suggested. Sorry I didn't see your post earlier.

 

Your POC looks good to me, just a few points:

 

1. You haven't added your total up here...

 

c) The Claimant claims contractual interest at a rate of 29.69% per annum, from the date of each transaction to 21st March 2007, which is £2169.24, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimant further claims interest, on the resulting total of £2169.24, at the same rate equivalent to an annual interest rate of 29.69% up to the date of judgment or earlier payment

 

2. You have mentioned the important bits like 'the principle of mutuality and reciprocity' and 'unduly enrich the Defendant'... super duper!!

 

3. I am unsure of putting in both the 29.69% and the 16.74%. I would have thought it best to just put the one you have been asking for in the LBA (I assume the 29.69%)... and then settle for the 8% if the judge finds the contractual interest rate is not applicable. The reason I say this is because it looks like you do not know what you are entitled to... and the judge isn't going to favour one contractual figure to another... it's gonna be either the figure you have asked for or not. I would take out this bit...

 

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, and then in the alternative the Claimant claims contractual interest at a rate of 16.74%, from the date of each transaction to 21st March 2007, which is £1031.76, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimant further claims interest, on the resulting total of £3191.76, at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment, at a rate equivalent to the annual interest rate of 16.74%.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on authorized drawings from the account. The Claimant holds that this applies to authorized drawings by the Defendant as well as to authorized drawings by the Claimant. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimant claims the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity or fairness and balance, and is based on the Defendant’s authorized overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.... the last paragraph is already in there, so you are just saying the same thing twice other than the difference in figures.

 

If I were you I would just put the 29.69% (if that is the amount you have been asking for in your letters to the bank) and the 8% in the POC and on the spreadies. This is merely my opinion and there might be someone out there who knows better.

 

So then you need:

 

Your N1 signed x 3

3 copies of your POC signed and dated

3 copies of your spready

The dosh for the fee (£120.00)

 

21st March is Wednesday... remember your spready will change daily so you might want to wait until that actual day before you print them out and alter the figures on your POC accordingly (unless you have manually put the date forward on your spready).

 

Hope this helps and doesn't just confuse you more...

[muggins73]

HI Hope and welcome back, lovey:)

 

Maxine is spot on, so I'll leave you both to it.

Good luck.

[millymollymoo]

Hi Hope,

 

This what I put in the value box

 

"Value"

Penalty charges in the sum of £xxx.xx Interest to be determined as the Court deems just, as per section 6 of the attached Particulars of Claim, with the maximum to not exceed £xxx.xx. A maximum total of £xxx.xx

Plus Expenses for writing and sending letters to the defendant , the total being £xx.xx .Plus any applicable Court fees.

Plus interest from date of issue to date of settlement at such rate and for such periods as the Court deems just, according to section 6 of the attached Particulars of Claim.

 

 

P.S in your case section 5

Milly XXXX

[GaryH]

Hi Hope,

 

Looks fine.

 

The only thing I would say is to leave out any costs - I.e the letter expenses, etc. Unfortunately you are not entitled to claim costs on the SCT. That said, there is a provision which allows costs to be awarded on the grounds of the other parties unreasonable conduct, so if it goes how nearly all the other NW ones have, you could apply for costs on that basis when the claim is settled.

[millymollymoo]

Hi hope,

 

Probably best to do what post 181 said.

 

However , I borrowed this from Mindzai originally and won with Cap One using that.

 

I only charged £2 to cover postage and each listed letter on sep sheet.

 

Milly

[thereshope!]

Hi maxine,muggins,milly and gary:)

What little night owls you all are !!!

 

Thanks for the input all of you, its really appreciated.

 

My POC is a brazen copy of Lucids POC, and I tried to get hold of her by pm to check if she'd mind me borrowing from her,unfortunately shes not around so hope she doesnt mind !

 

I must admit that I was in 2 minds as to whether it would be wise to offer the other interest rates in the alternative,but this is what Lucid did and she and mindzai went on to win all their claims using the same POC.

 

Mmmm .Not sure whether to omit it now or not...

 

Hope xx

[GaryH]

I was'nt critisising your last post Milly:). Hope asked about claiming letter costs in #169, I was answering that post, that was all.

 

Some claimants have been settled with small amounts for letters, etc. and I accept that it does seem totally reasonable and fair that you should be able to claim those sorts of expenses, but unfortunately the CPR is clear in that those sorts of costs are not claimable on the SCT - it comes under the "no costs rule". When you think about it though, that rule does actually benefit us a lot more than it does the banks at the end of the day, as it allows us the protection and security of being able to bring actions against big institutions without the risk of being screwed for thousands in costs in the event we were to lose a claim. I know I would'nt feel quite so confident about suing a bank if it weren't in place!

 

There is nothing stopping you keeping a schedule of your costs and requesting them on settlement on the unreasonable behaviour' grounds though - tot it up at £9.25 per hour spent and keep any receipts, then submit a request to the court when you've been settled.

[GaryH]

Hi Hope, crossed posts then.

 

My POC is a brazen copy of Lucids POC, and I tried to get hold of her by pm to check if she'd mind me borrowing from her,unfortunately shes not around so hope she doesnt mind !

I think I can safely say that Lucid won't mind one bit - she and Mindzai are only too happy for other people to use their letters, etc.

[millymollymoo]

I was'nt critisising your last post Milly:-). Hope asked about claiming letter costs in #169, I was answering that post, that was all.

 

Hey Gary soz I need to put things in a better way when I type.

 

XXXXXX

 

Milly XX

[millymollymoo]

Hope,

 

Its up to you about offering the 8% alternative. I did but I may not with barclaycard so I am not much help here!!!

 

Milly XXX

[thereshope!]

Thanks for putting my mind at rest Gary !

Lucid has helped me in the past with the contractual element and shes always been really giving of her time- I would have hated to bug her !

 

I dont want to rock the boat by claiming costs that might get me in trouble, so I will leave it until Nw decide to settle !

 

Do you have an opinion on whether it might be a good/not so good idea to mention the 3 different interest rates on my POC.

 

Maxine raised a good point when she said it may make me look like I dont know what I'm entitled to and I dont want them to see me as being easy to confuse and not know what I'm doing ?

[GaryH]

No worries, there was'nt anything wrong with way you put your post, I was just making sure that you did'nt misconstrue mine as a critisism, thats all.

[thereshope!]

I just thought it would offer a 'middle ground' if you like !

 

The judge might decide that it's unfair of me to apply the unauthorised rate , but he might think that the authorised rate is fair to both parties.

 

Or am I barking up the wrong tree here ...?

 

Keep thinking about Lucids claims and it worked for her...?

[GaryH]

Ooops, crossed again! (must be getting tired:rolleyes:)

 

Up to you really on the 2 rates or 3, although I do agree with Max in that if the judge does'nt grant the higher rate on the implied term arguement, he isn't going to grant the lower one on that basis either - so in that sence it is pointless claiming the lower rate. That said, the lower one could be used as a 'compromise' figure if/when they offer to settle. I.e. they offer the charges + 8%, then you compromise at the lower contractual rate rather than pursue the higher.

[GaryH]

Damn! Crossed again!! Far too slow - I'm off to bed.......

[thereshope!]

Lol Gary !

 

It is pretty late !

 

Thanks for the input bud.

 

Sleep tight

 

Hope xx

[millymollymoo]

Thanks for putting my mind at rest Gary !

Lucid has helped me in the past with the contractual element and shes always been really giving of her time- I would have hated to bug her !

 

I dont want to rock the boat by claiming costs that might get me in trouble, so I will leave it until Nw decide to settle !

 

Do you have an opinion on whether it might be a good/not so good idea to mention the 3 different interest rates on my POC.

 

Maxine raised a good point when she said it may make me look like I dont know what I'm entitled to and I dont want them to see me as being easy to confuse and not know what I'm doing ?

 

 

Hope its not a case of you not knowing what you are entitled to or not making up your mind. If you read through the contractual interest thread bank fodder started,this was always advised as the right thing to do .

 

I have done and CAPITAL ONE never offered the lower rate. One other didd I turned it down before court:o and got the higher rate in FULL.

That was me however may be different with NW.

 

Of course remember things have changed a lil bit and some say do and some say don't. P.M bill-k he is so good with these things:)

[thereshope!]

Hi Milly:)

 

So if you were in my position would you leave poc as it is with the 3 different rates ?

 

I was hoping that i could use it as a bargaining tool and show that I am willing to consider compromising on the unauth/auth interest rate if it comes to it....

 

Did you put 2 different rates and also offer the S69 in the alternative ?

 

Thanks

Hope xx

[millymollymoo]

Hi Hope,

 

With cap one I was already on the lower contractual rate , so I offered 8% in the alternative . With the other that I won I offered all three, higher, lower and 8%....it looked like this started from the court costs section of the POC....... BITS IN RED ARE TO BE CHANGED TO YOUR FIGURES ETC

 

 

 

 

5. The Claimant will further rely on the Office of Fair Trading’s (“the OFT”) statement of 5th April 2006 concerning default charges in credit card contracts and his recommendations given to the credit card companies in respect of these default charges.

 

6. Accordingly, the Claimant claims:

 

a) The return of the amounts debited in the respect of charges in the sum of £xxx.xx

 

b) Court Costs

 

GARY SUGGESTED NOT CLAIMING THIS!!! SO DELETE

c) The additional costs incurred by the Claimant in the writing and sending of letters to the Defendant pursuant to this claim in the sum of £xx.xx, as set out in the attached list of costs and the return of the £10.00 fee in sending for the claimants Data Access request. Total £xx.xx

 

d) The Claimant claims interest at the defendants’ contractual rateof xx.xx% {higher}per annum from the date of each transaction up to 1st xxxxxxx 2007, which is £xxx.xx. The Claimant further claims interest on the resulting total of £xxx.xx, at the same rate up to the date of settlement.

 

e) The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest currently payable on the xxxxxxx Visa Card. The Claimant holds that this applies to drawings by the Defendant as well as the Claimant. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimant claims the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, fairness and balance, and is based on the Defendant’s rate of interest published xxxxxxxx 2006, which would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

f) In the alternative to d), should the court find this rate is not applicable then the Claimant claims interest at the Defendant’s lower contractual rate of xx.xx% per annum from the date of each transaction up to 1st xxxxxxxxx 2007, which is £xxx.xx. The Claimant further claims interest on the resulting total of £xxx.xx, at the same rate up to the date of settlement.

 

g) The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest currently payable on the xxxxxxxx Visa Card. The Claimant holds that this applies to drawings by the Defendant as well as the Claimant. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimant claims the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s rate of interest published xxxxxxxx 2006, which would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

 

h) Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity , then in the alternative to 6.d {maybe different number on yours!!!} and 6.f),the Claimant claims interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of each transaction to 1st xxxxxxxx 2007 which is £xxxxx. The Claimant further claims interest on the resulting total of £xxx.xx, at the same rate up to the date of settlement thereafter at a daily rate of £xxxxp.

 

i) Details of interest calculated & rates used are attached to these Particulars of Claim as follows:

Appendix 2 – Contractual compound interest calculated daily at an annual rate of xx.xx% {higher]

Appendix 3 - Contractual compound interest calculated daily at an annual rate of xx.xx% {lower]

Appendix 4 – Simple Interest under s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at an annual rate of 8.00%

 

7. Furthermore, the claimant requests that settlement be made by cheque payable to the claimant, as the claimant no longer has an account with the defendant due to the claimant settling the full balance and closing the account.

 

Statement of Truth

I believe that the contents of these Particulars of Claim are true.

 

Dated this 1st day of xxxxxxx 2007

 

 

 

Of course hope its up to you as alot of peeps are only offering the ONE rate. I just put this bit here if you needed it.

 

Milly XXX

 

 

 

AND SIGN IT!!!!

[millymollymoo]

I keep editing soz:rolleyes: .

 

Hope ......ask on the bank fodder contractual interst thread , also the NAT WEST thread if you are unsure as all I can really say is I did it and had no probs, however I MUST STRESS this as Cap One and another;) and i was offered the lot BEFORE defence was filed and I CANNOT answer for NAT WEST, they may go on and on and then only try the 8% .

 

YOU MAY HAVE THIS DILEMMA whether the 8% is there or not anyway. Its up to you hun. XX

 

Milly XXX

[thereshope!]

Thanks Milly

 

I've decided to list all 3.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right ?

 

Hopefully the worst that can happen is the judge will award the 8% so may as well give him food for thought and let him contemplate all 3 rates !

 

Thanks for posting your poc hun

 

Hope xx

[lucid]

Thanks for putting my mind at rest Gary !

Lucid has helped me in the past with the contractual element and shes always been really giving of her time- I would have hated to bug her !

 

Hi Hope,

 

I'm sorry I've only just picked up your PM (pointing to this thread) but we have been so busy lately and have barely been checking in on the computer. There's no need to worry about using our POC. All of our letters etc. are posted so that others can use them as a reference or adapt them for their own claims. I'm glad Gary put your mind at rest though - thanks Gary.

 

Bearing in mind that we (Mindzai mostly ) wrote those Particulars back in the beginning of September 2006, I think ideas regarding contractual interest have since developed. For example I think that the mutuality and reciprocity partis worded better as fairness and balance. The reason being Mindzai's post here. There seems to be a stronger argument when wording it as fairness and balance.

 

Also (as you already know) we included two other rates in the alternative in our POC but people are now beginning to query whether this is a good idea or not. I think that if I had to claim again then I probably wouldn't include the authorised rate in the alternative but probably would include the statutory rate in the alternative. But there are a lot of differing opinions on this and you need to go with whatever you think is best and suits your case.

 

You also asked me about the daily rate for your POC as the spreadsheet you used doesn't work it out for you. This isn't a problem and you don;t need to omit the reference to the daily rate. It's quite easy to work out and this is what you would do for your contractual interest rates:

 

1. Take your total charges and contractual interest up until the date you are filing the claim.

EXAMPLE: Total charges (£50) + Total contractual interest (£50) = £100

2.Mulitply the total by your interest rate (29.69) and then divide by 100 to give you your annual rate of interest.

EXAMPLE: £100 x 29.69 / 100 = £29.69

3. Take your annual rate of interest and divide it by 365 to give you your daily rate.

EXAMPLE: £29.69 / 365 = £0.08

4. The £0.08 is the daily rate you would put on your claim form to be added onto your claim until it is settled or comes to an end.

 

The statutory interest daily rate is calculated in the same way but in step 1 you only take your total charges (you don't include any interest you've already earned). But you can also work out your daily rate by taking your total charges and multiplying by 0.00022.

 

To naswer your last question from your PM, the date on your spreadsheet when you submit it to the court needs to be the date you are filing the claim.

 

Good luck. Lucid

[millymollymoo]

Hope lucid is right about differing opinions see here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/18313-why-no-one-claiming-post652145.html#post652145

 

milly XXx

 

And as lucid said change the mutuality and reciprocay to fairness and balance !!! and maybe knock out the lowe rate.

 

Confusion soz hun!!!!

[thereshope!]

Milly hun:D

 

Just tried to click your scales but wouldnt let me to say thanks for sending pm to our hairy friend !

 

Cheers milly

 

Hope xx