Motorrange.co.uk/Close brother Finance - 4mts old Faulty Car

[DJ191]

I'm at the beginning of what I expect to be a painful battle in regards to a used car.

 

Facts are:

• Car was purchased 144 days ago from a large retailer, Motor Range, I paid £11k, part financed and the financer claims ownership of the car as per the paperwork. it is 5 years old and has done 44.5k miles, 3k by me. Under 6 months since purchase.
• Has already been back to the dealer once due to 2 faults a few weeks after purchase, vehicle found to have perished wheel bearings and a fault in the braking system; both were repaired at the dealers cost.
• Has since (recently) developed a further fault in which the engine coolant level dropped significantly, the coolant turned murky, and left a sticky white deposits in the reservoir. Symptoms could indicate contamination with engine oil or something else, which can be pretty disastorous.  
• Unrelated, but there is also a knocking sound from the front of the car, suspected shocks/suspension. 
• The dealer refuses to look at the car and put things right unless I pay £60 diagnostics + parts + labour, as "it is outside of the (one month) warranty".

 

Following dealing with the trader, I have submitted a complaint to them, setting out my concerns and the expected course of action (a repair), and have also raised a complaint via the finance company. A case handler will be calling me in the next few days. They advise me to park the car at home and not take it to a mechanic without their prior consultation.

 

From what I can gather, despite the dealers claims of a '1 mo warranty', they could still be held accountable for this fault within 6 months, onus being on them to rebut that it was not faulty on delivery. Given the 2 prior faults, while unrelated, I feel that it demonstrates a lack of care and I am not satisfied that they checked the car over as thoroughly as it could have been before delivery, therefore I want it repairing. I have also been informed that the finance company takes some level of accountability.

 

I fully expect to meet resistance with the motor trader. So far I have lodged my first complaints to both previously mentioned parties, though I do expect this to become a lengthy battle. I'm looking for some advice on how to apprach this from now onwards, and what I might expect.
 

[dx100uk]

name names . dealer /finance

 

he is wrong too

warranties / guarantees mean nothing!

and do not over ride/negate your consumer rights

 

as you are within 6mts its for you to pay for a independent report (GO ELSEWHERE!!) sounds like theres oil in the  coolant... bad news

 

its the finance co's car not  yours you should not have to pay a penny other than day to day running stuff.

 

dx

 

[BankFodder]

Which finance company are you dealing with?

 

Write to the dealer and also to the finance company and put them on notice that you are asserting your rights under the Consumer rights act and you are giving them a single opportunity to repair all the defects or else you are rejecting the vehicle for a refund plus any ancillary losses.

This letter must be sent off immediately because you are approaching the end of the 6-months limit.

 

After that standby for a fuller reply probably tomorrow

[DJ191]

Hi.

 

Close Brothers Motor Finance. Yes, they own the vehicle.

 

As for not paying a penny, they have a clause in the policy which dictates, "You must maintain the goods in good and reasonable order and condition at your expense. You are responsible for all loss or damage to, the goods, except for any due to fair wear and tear".

 

I'm not fully sure how to interpret that, whether a potentially catastrophic fault could be 'maintaining the goods in reasonable order', but I read on Which.com that the financer is responsible for any problems.

 

 

I have lodged a complaint with them after they also tried claiming 'your responsibility', not in those exact words, but they asked my me desired course of action, and I told them I will accept either the vehicle repaired at the retailers cost, a refund minus reasonable usage, or a like for like replacement.

 

So the ball is rolling.

[BankFodder]

Ok. Don't worry we will help you sort it out.

[dx100uk]

close brothers , as bad as moneybarn, the car is theirs and you shouldn't be paying a penny .. end of .

 

pers id ditch it if oyu can unless you really really want it, how did you view the vehicle, if you did? was it via online or you went to see it and how far was the dealer away from you/?

 

 

[DJ191]

In person, the dealership is local to me.

 

I viewed the car and completed a 10 mile test drive, and everything seemed ok at the time but I'm not a qualified mechanic so couldn't really be expected to dig deep, Motor Range employ professionals to do this and sign the vehicle off.

 

I returned the next day as I liked the car, it seemed good and I needed a replacement. I paid £5000 up front using a debit card inc. £100 p/ex and settled the remaining balance using a 'conditional sale agreement' to the sum of £6389.99.

 

I like the car, but I've got this feeling it could become a problem child.

 

Would I replace it? Yes, though if I knew it would be reasonably reliable for the next 5 or so years, I would keep it.

 

Done some digging and got a name for the retailers customer service manager via linkedin. I think I will call up tomorrow morning and ask to speak to him. Might even pop down there on the bus in the afternoon and see if he is knocking about. Make him fully aware I have a complaint and want it sorting.

 

Keep the pressure on and try to hurry them along.

They claim up to 5 days for acknowledgement of the complaint and 28 days for a response. Pretty slow.

Edited October 1, 2021 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[BankFodder]

Read our customer service guide first.

[DJ191]

Ok, seems this applies more to telephone. I've tried setting up call recording to no avail. Is records of all communication via email acceptable, say I was to request they send pdf documents, electronically signed?

 

I have prepared an email for their Sales Director, Shaun Lane - this is the guy responsible for employing a team of 21 sales executives and overseeing them so I presume he holds some authority there.

 

Hi Shaun,

 

I believe that you are the Sales Director over at Motor Range. I presume you have a large responsibility for customer care and I wanted to share with you my experience at your organization in regards to a problematic vehicle purchased in May. I hope you can help me.

 

I spoke to a colleague at the servicing department on 01/10/2021 at 08:45, who tried telling me that I would be responsible for all costs for a vehicle suffering a serious fault just 4 months after purchase, and then refused to let me talk this over this with a manager when I requested to do so.

 

I then raised a formal complaint via email, please refer to the attached letter which was delivered on 01/10/2021 to your team. I just wanted to make you aware of this and that I want something doing to put things right without delay. If this could please be escalated to yourself or someone of equivalent responsibility and authority, I would really appreciate it, and look forward to getting this sorted as swiftly as possible. My vehicle is a necessity to me due to my career, and I can't afford to be without it.

 

Regards,

=END=

 

I will dispatch this to him in the morning, accompanied with the electronic letter I delievered to [email protected] 

Edited October 1, 2021 by DJ191

[BankFodder]

I've had a more detailed look at your first post giving an account of what has happened.

Obviously the dealer should be taking more of an interest in the car and so it doesn't bode well. However, I think I would be anxious to try and reduce the problems to the minimum and so in respect of that, they are asking for £60 for a diagnostic report and frankly I think I would pay it.

It's not a huge amount of money and at least you would then get the dealer to identify the issues and you will also be in a better position to understand whether the dealer was going to assume responsibility for them – which of course they probably should.
If they then try to say that you are responsible for the repairs, you would then understand the full scale of the problem.

At the moment your simply having a dispute over a £60 diagnostic fee. You have no idea how significant or how expensive the other faults are to repair.

I think that your best tactic now would be to give the appearance that you are accepting their procedure and that you are prepared to put your vehicle in for their diagnostic test and to pay the price of that.

Once you have the report then you should come back here and tell us what it contains.

However, I would book the car in for a diagnostic report elsewhere – making sure that they are a high quality independent garage with no skin in the game. They will probably charge you for a diagnostic report as well.
My suggestion is that you put the car in for the £60 diagnostic straightaway – with Motor Range.
Let us know what they have to say.  In particular, you want to know about the cause of the faults and also whether they intend to deal with them at their own expense.

On the assumption that they identify false but then say that you are responsible for the cost of repairs,
Book a diagnostic report with another independent garage – and give Motor Range notice that you have booked the car in and that it will incur a fee of £XXX and invite them to comment.
Have your independent diagnostic report carried out and also get a quote for repairs.
Compare the reports. It will be especially interesting if your independent report identifies more problems than those identified by Motor Range.
Come back here again and let us know what you have found.

You should realise that the moment you don't even understand the value of the problems that you are dealing with. I think it is important to understand this. Otherwise you are introducing another unnecessary step into this dispute.
You are having to dispute the diagnostic report cost.
If they refuse to back down – then you still have no diagnostic report and at least you will have to go and get one as an independent garage.
You will then have to enter into a dispute with Motor Range about who pays for the repairs.
Motor Range will still want to have a look at the car.
They may dispute the findings of the independent garage.
They may dispute the quotation given by the independent garage.
You have no idea how it will pan out.

If you go along with their 60 quid for the diagnostic report then at least that is that issue out of the way and although they don't realise that you are taking control.
When everything is sorted out we will help you get the 60 could back. The 60 quid is slamdunk yours and you will get back.

I wouldn't make any other contact with the dealer at the moment. You don't want to give the appearance that they are in conflict with you. If you have started getting into contact with them that make it look as if you have backed down.

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Is this Motor Range in Bootle that you're dealing with please? Their score on Trustpilot doesn't seem to be too bad but I haven't read many reviews yet.

 

HB

[DJ191]

Hi Bankfodder,

 

I already sent an email to the sales directors at 05:50 this morning on my train to work, he responded to me an hour later vowing to call back by Monday 4th October. The stress of this is compelling me to stay on their case. I'll see what he has to say when I speak to him sho.

 

Just to reiterate,  Close Brothers did ask me to park the car and not to take it to a mechanic, but if I would be better served not following their advice and booking it in then I will do so for the coming week.

 

 

Honeybee13, hello. Yes, the dealer is Motor Range in Bootle. The sales experience was ok,  and they were helpful in fixing 2 previously found faults after delivery, though communication was a little lackluster after some documentation was missing after the sale, and now this.

Edited October 2, 2021 by DJ191

[honeybee13]

Thank you. Link to their website.

 

Used Car Dealers - Cars for sale In Liverpool

WWW.MOTORRANGE.CO.UK

---

Auto Trader 4.8 star rating. Liverpool's number one for used cars for sale. With over 1000 used cars, permanently low prices, quick and easy finance...

 

HB

[BankFodder]

You come here and you ask for advice. We try to help you but you make it more difficult for everybody if you start firing off your own messages without at least listening to what we have to say about it first.

I think you have to decide whether you want us to help you or with you want to go it alone.

I suppose now you are going to have to wait for the reply on Monday – and I hope it is the reply that you want but if it's not then if I were you I would back down and go for the diagnostic report as I have said.

However do realise that if they do come back with an unhelpful reply then in order to go for the diagnostic report, you will have to accept a certain loss of face which previously wasn't necessary. Although it will only be temporary and we will help you deal with the matter going forward.

We'll keep our fingers crossed for you for Monday - but by doing this you have ceded control to them by asking them to make a decision.

[DJ191]

I will curb the stubbornness, and depending on how things go with this manager, will get the car booked in for an inspection and report at reputable independent workshop local to me, or the dealers servicing centre. 

 

Does it matter which of these I opt for? Is there a preferred option?

[BankFodder]

I suggest that you do both.

It is only reasonable to give them an opportunity to carry out an inspection so they can ascertain for themselves what their liabilities are. They shouldn't be asking for the 60 quid – but as they are then you may as well go along with it. As long as defects are revealed then you will get the 60 quid back even if we have to force them.

However, I don't think you should remain satisfied with them investigating themselves and so in addition you should organise your own independent – thorough – diagnostic to look not only at the faults which are apparent at the moment but also to check the vehicle out generally.
As I've already said, get quotes for the work so that you can understand the value of the problem if Motor Range refuse to carry out the repairs as part of their consumer obligations.

Once you understand the full extent of the problem and the value of it, you are then in a position to start challenging them but it will be on a solid ground, backed by evidence and following your own timescale.

[dx100uk]

ideally IMHO you need to back away from doing the running around.

its not your bag.

 

you simply formally in WRITING inform close brothers and motorrange of your stance and demand they between themselves get it sorted to what YOU want to happen without any cost to you ASAP.

 

the rules of your consumer rights and the consumer credit act are specifically there to deal with these matters, not your interpretation or understanding of how things should be dealt with. i would also pers be looking for compensation should you eventually keep the vehicle.

 

just musing

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

If, having carried out their diagnostic and they identify the problems and suggest remedies – then I don't think you should book in. You should wait until you have your comparator diagnostic.

You need to be aware that your dealers may decide to try and save money by adopting a short-term shortcut remedy when in fact it needs something more substantial. Your independent diagnostic will give you this information. Your independent diagnostic garage will want to make as much money as possible so they will recommend the best approach. Motor Range may want to save money and so may offer the least thorough approach. You will be able to make the comparison

[BankFodder]

I see I've crossposted with my site team colleague above.
I have to say that although I agree that you shouldn't be doing the running around, because we don't know the extent of any problems and the extent of any remedies being proposed, I think you should take this in hand.

Once you understand the issues completely, then certainly you should be dealing with close brothers but by that time you will have evidence on your side which will give power to what you are trying to do.

Don't imagine that close brothers will be particular helpful. They will be worse than Motor Range because they will have to channel all communications through them and so it will become a game of Chinese whispers where you don't really know what is going on between the dealer and the finance company.

Become fully informed first of all then you can control events

[dx100uk]

thread title updated

[BankFodder]

By the way, are you still driving the vehicle?

Even without their contractual term – you would certainly be liable for any damage caused by continuing to drive the vehicle if it is not in a proper driveable state.

This is another reason why you shouldn't get involved in a protracted exchange of correspondence but you should go as quick as possible for the diagnostic so that you understand exactly what the problem is. You should also be asking both the dealer and also an independent inspector as to whether or not you should be continuing to drive the vehicle and what the risks are.

If you are instructed – particularly by the dealers – not to drive the vehicle then that could put you in a position where he would be entitled to is a hire car and charge it to the dealer. Of course it would be easiest for the dealer to supply you with a loan vehicle that assumes that everybody is getting on with each other.

[dx100uk]

16 hours ago, DJ191 said:

They advise me to park the car at home and not take it to a mechanic without their prior consultation.

 

[BankFodder]

Sorry I hadn't noticed this.

This is a piece of generalised advice and not predicated on the diagnosis of a particular problem – but it has the effect of practising a defensive approach so that later on if there is extra damage they can say that they warned you and you ignored their warning.
However, on the basis of this warning you should certainly not drive the vehicle.
 

[DJ191]

No, the vehicle is parked up and I intend to leave it until the dealer rectifies or I get it in for an independent fault find and report. I presume the advice not to drive is also applicable in the case of driving it to a competent person  and that I need to arrange recovery instead?

 

I have decided on a garage who I believe can be trusted to do this, and I am calling them back on Monday in regards to a prospective inspection on 11th October.

[BankFodder]

Make it clear that you want a proper written report – with a point by point identification of the issues, point by point recommendation of the remedies and a point by point quotation for each piece of work.

When the issues are identified, it might be useful if there was also an opinion given as to how long that particular fault might have existed – whether it probably existed when the car was purchased or it has developed since then and also whether it would be expected that this issue manifested itself on a vehicle of that age and mileage