Ending a call via phone rather than screen while in car

[axil23]

Was waiting at traffic lights on a handsfree call.

I ended it by pressing the button on the phone which was in between my lap.

 

There were two community support officers waiting at the traffic light who went onto write something down in their pad while looking towards my number plate.

Am I looking into it too much or can they issue me a fine/points for this? 

Edited September 26, 2021 by dx100uk
spacing

[BazzaS]

https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

If it was in your lap and you touched it to end the call, it wasn’t in a hands free holder.

 

Who knows what they were writing down, but if they were noting that you were using your mobile other than hands free : you could receive a penalty.

 

The webpage I’ve cited highlights that this applies even while “just stopped at traffic lights”.

Edited September 25, 2021 by BazzaS

[axil23]

Can Community support officers issue penalty points too? 

Edited September 26, 2021 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[BazzaS]

I believe (but am happy to be corrected!) that PCSOs can’t offer a FPN in those circumstances.

 

I don’t know if they then report it and the police offer you a FPN, or if they’d have to report you, and take you to court, where either or both could state why they believed the offence to have been committed.

 

6 points, £200 fine (& victim surcharge if it goes to court)

Edited September 25, 2021 by BazzaS

[axil23]

Thank you. Would someone be able to confirm. 
 

I went back to the same place as they were waiting outside a house that had been broken into and asked them if they wanted to speak to me as I thought they had taken my number down. They said no. It was the same two community support officers. 
 

Matter finished? 
 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[BazzaS]

Who knows?. Wait and see if you receive a NIP.

[axil23]

Can you get points through a NIP?

Edited September 26, 2021 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[BazzaS]

You don’t have to keep quoting my posts, especially if you are answering immediately below them.

 

If you are asking if you can “get points through a NIP”: what do you think a S172 / NIP is?

[axil23]

Sorry my iPhone kept on auto quoting when I hit reply. 
 

I have no idea what that S172/NIP is. Quick google suggests it’s a notice of intended prosecution. 
 

Surely if they wanted to prosecute the community officer would have told me when I asked him? Can they lie to you? Why would they want to do that? 

[BazzaS]

They may not be lying. They may have taken down the car’s details and not know it was you.

 

Or, they may be making a report and not want to get in an argument with you.

 

Or, they may not have been taking down your car’s details and you are just overthinking all of this.

 

Only time will tell. No one here can tell you for sure.

 

if you had no idea what an NIP is, you might have been better to ask “what’s an NIP” (though googling it, as you have done now was probably a better option) rather than asking “can I get points through an NIP”!

 

If you are that worried about getting points (do you have points already or are you a ‘new driver’?) you may find yourself less stressed if you don’t commit moving traffic offences …….

Edited September 25, 2021 by BazzaS

[axil23]

30 years of driving and no points. Would hate to get points for pressing end on a call. 
 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by axil23

[Man in the middle]

A few points to note.

 

1. There is talk of issuing a FPN. That is not the procedure for a mobile phone offence. Once the driver has been identified, a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty might be made (if appropriate). That is different to a FPN.

 

2. You will note that such an offer must be made to the driver. Whoever witnessed this alleged offence does not know who was driving. So in order to find out the police must issue a request under s172 of the Road Traffic Act to the Registered Keeper.

 

3. Most importantly, in order to prosecute the driver successfully (should he decline a Fixed Penalty offer) the police must prove that the phone was being used for "interactive communication." This is as a result of the High Court judgement in the case of Ramsey Barreto vs DPP.:

 

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/19-07-31-DPP-v-Barreto-Ref.-CO2702019-Judgment.pdf

 

From your description, they may have some considerable difficulty doing that, so the rest becomes somewhat irrelevant.

 

BTW a "NIP" is a Notice of Intended Prosecution. Where the driver was not stopped at the time of the alleged offence, certain offences require such a notice to be served on either the driver or the Registered Keeper within 14 days. As far as I can remember, a mobile phone offence is not one that does. I'll check and come back if I'm wrong.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Man in the middle

[BazzaS]

Barreto is currently “good law”, although there are plans to close some of the “loopholes”

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/next-steps-announced-to-boost-road-safety-and-close-mobile-phone-loophole

 

[axil23]

Man in the middle thank you for your reply. That is comforting. 30 years of driving at 70-72mph on the motorway it would have really stung to get 6 points for something as silly as this. Especially as it was through handsfree. 
 

 

[Man in the middle]

Quote

Barreto is currently “good law”, although there are plans to close some of the “loopholes”

 

Indeed Bazz. But it's been over two years since the judgement and nearly a year since the "consultation" was launched. I suppose they must be busy but quite why they need a "consultation" is mysterious. The problem was readily identified by the High Court and it should take a government lawyer a fairly short time to produce an amendment to the statute. I suppose one saving grace is that not many people seem to know of Barreto (yet) which I must say surprises me a little in this day and age. But the DfT needs to get its backside into gear.

[dx100uk]

3 hours ago, axil23 said:

Man in the middle thank you for your reply. That is comforting. 30 years of driving at 70-72mph on the motorway it would have really stung to get 6 points for something as silly as this. Especially as it was through handsfree. 
 

 

 

its not 'silly' regardless of the hands free operation of taking the call , strictly speaking you should not be operating your phone....there are no exceptions....even stationary at traffic lights, the car is running, the key is in the ignition. your past good behaviour by sticking to any speed limit is totally immaterial and has zero bearing upon your actions and oh i should be allowed as i'm a good boy ...usually...... why not  learn how to use your handsfree device properly to terminate a call...might be the answer.

 

your phone should not be in your lap, it should be secured in a holder whereby you do not need to access it..

 

please be careful and thoughtful  for everyone,.