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Bought an animal Reptasia Pet Centre Basingstoke Pet Shop -seriously Ill.


ViperGRG
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Looking for advice. Bought an animal from a pet shop. Within 48hours noticed it was ill. Advised pet shop. They said it wasn't unwell with them. I took it to vet, 2.5dys after receiving, and the animal was kept in the vets for 6 nights emergency care due the severity of the illness. Have a vet report detailing the list of ailments/treatment required. Vet noted the extent of illness will have been present a minimum of weeks, but poss more. Petshop owner will not discuss return of animal or refund for the animal/vet fees. I have written detailing all above info using a template letter as advised by CAB, but they are still ignoring me. Any advice most welcome.

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Please can you tell us a bit more about the animal – what kind, cost, et cetera.

Tell us more about the illness.

Please tell us the name of the pet shop.

What is the cost of treating this animal?

What is the prognosis?

Also please can you present your posts with good spacing and punctuation please.

The solid block of text is very difficult to follow especially on a small screen

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It was a Python snake. 

 

Cost including delivery by the same pet shop £405.

 

Vet report:

Problem breathing issues mouth rot. Notes - got a few days ago delivered by courier owner reports snake seemed subdued when arrived. Has scaring from reported previous burn dorsolateral quadural trunk approx 12cm cranial of vent. Some deformity at region possibly due contracture and fibrosis associated with wound healing, may have underlying spinal change and would need radiography to assess further.

 

Snake appears lethargic, reduced body tone, audible respiration, wheezing and signs of air hunger, mouth breathing and raising head and neck consistent with respiratory disease.

 

Necrotic stomatitis with swelling of oral tissues, ulceration and haemorrhage and marked caseous exudate and fort by mucus throughout mouth.

 

Has a few areas of dermatitis on central scutes with discouloration and erythema risk of progession.

 

Discuss findings with owner. General condition and combination of clinical signs consistent with depressed immune system which could be due to underlying disease stress of various forms. Poor prognosis, may not survive despite treatement recommended hospitalisation for initial treatment and stabilisation. May require further investigation of underlying problems such as viral disease. Will likely require prolonged nursing and medical therapy as well as addressing any underlying issues

 

Vet Cost to date £151.00.

 

Update: 

The petshop courier states they are collecting the snake from me. The snake will then go to thier vet for treatment. 

They have not said whether the business will refund me. They avoid answering this, despite me requesting a refund a number of times in email comms. The manager always states the owner will contact me to discuss. 

 

I need to decide if I allow them to collect the snake, will I still be eligible for a refund. 

Or if I allow them to take it if I have forfeit my rights. 

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I notice that you haven't told us the name of the shop. Are you trying to protect them?

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Certainly not protect. Trust me I'm entirely upset and angry. More so that there is an ill animal caught in the middle. 

I fully intend to review the hell out of it if I ever get this settled. 

 

Iv already worked out the local council to report all my info too, re their pet shop license. 

 

Was advised that if I was going small claims I shouldn't Name?

 

Will the advice change if I name the business?

I dont mean that rudely. 

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No the advice won't change at all. I suppose it is the CAB which has given you this advice.

They are an excellent organisation and very well-intentioned but I'm afraid that when it comes to being assertive and litigious in respect of your rights then – well-intentioned is probably as good as we can say.

Naming the pet shop will simply put pressure on them if they find out that they're being discussed in social media. These people come very much on the reputation and of course, it will get them to focus and to up their game in respect of future animals that they sell and that will be good for the welfare of the animals and also good for future customers.

You are already getting a flavour of the attitude of this pet shop. They are avoiding you and refused to discuss any question of a refund.
They appear to be less concerned with the welfare of the animal and maintaining their reputation and good name than making sure that they don't have to do suffer any financial losses.

Name the pet shop. It won't produce any disadvantage at all and can only produce advantages for everybody concerned.

In terms of your entitlement to recover your expenses – you are fully entitled. We will help you. Naming the pet shop won't make any difference.

You should make sure that you have told them in writing that you are rejecting the animal under the consumer rights act as it has shown a very serious defect within the first 30 days and you require a full refund plus also reimbursement of the expenses which you have reasonably incurred in trying to look after the animal.
In the same letter you can also point out to them that you have made attempts to engage with them in a dialogue about this and they have declined to cooperate.

If you want, you can post a draft of the letter you're going to send them here and we will check it out for you.

By the way, how did you pay for this snake?

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Email I have already sent on 14.9.21.

 

Dear Sir 

 

Complaint about animal received not as described. 

 

I was delivered an Angolan python on 5.9.21. 

I paid £405 through your businesses for the animal and delivery. 

 

I now find the animal is ill and have the following illness: verified by a qualified vetinary practice. 

 

Problem breathing issues mouth rot. Notes - got a few days ago delivered by courier owner reports snake seemed subdued when arrived. Has scaring from reported previous burn dorsolateral quadural trunk approx 12cm cranial of vent. Some deformity at region possibly due contracture and fibrosis associated with wound healing, may have underlying spinal change and would need radiography to assess further.

Snake appears lethargic, reduced body tone, audible respiration, wheezing and signs of air hunger, mouth breathing and raising head and neck consistent with respiratory disease. 

Necrotic stomatitis with swelling of oral tissues, ulceration and haemorrhage and marked caseous exudate and forth by mucus throughout mouth.

Has a few areas of dermatitis on central scutes with discouloration and erythema risk of progession.

Discuss findings with owner. General condition and combination of clinical signs consistent with depressed immune system which could be due to underlying disease stress of various forms. Poor prognosis, may not survive despite treatement recommended hospitalisation for initial treatment and  stabilisation. May require further investigation of underlying problems such as viral disease. Will likely require prolonged nursing and medical therapy as well as addressing any underlying issues

 

£151.00 vet fees for emergency care. 

 

The discovery of the animals illness was less than 48 hours in my care. 

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 goods you supply must be fit for purpose/as described. As there was a problem with the animal when I bought it, progressing to extreme ill health, I request that you give me a full refund of costs incurred. *animal/delivery/vet fees.*

 

Please respond, this has been ongoing since 7.9.21 and to date management has made no attempt to contact me to discuss this matter or provide a definitive resolution.

Regards 

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So what's the name of the pet shop?

In terms of the medical report, you should simply enclose or attach a copy of the medical report directly from the vet with the vet's letter head on it.

The email that you have sent is okay but you should send another email straightaway

 

Quote

Further to my email of 14th of September, for the avoidance of doubt as the defect in the statement she sold me has manifested itself within 30 days of having bought it, I'm asserting my right to reject the snake under the consumer rights act.

This entitles me to a full refund and in addition, I require you to reimburse me with all of the veterinary costs which I have reasonably incurred so far in an attempt to mitigate and retrieve the situation.

I'm sure you are aware, under the consumer rights act you are obliged to reimburse me and also arrange for collection of the snake as soon as possible and at your own expense.

 

 

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If you don't get any response to this letter then the next step will be to issue a letter of claim. We will help you with this.

Incidentally, I called the pet shop owner and told him that you were withholding his name.

He laughed.

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They replied today. Sam is the manager of the shop, not the owner. (See below)

 

If you do get him again.... Going to ask him ... To contact me 🤣🤣

 

If he doesn't refund tomorrow when he collects the snake. (If he even does that, He's cancelled a previous collection date.) 

Ill name and forge ahead with a small claim

 

Yes CAB advised no naming shaming. 

 

Hi Den

 
I have been able to confirm the collection of the animal for tomorrow via the courier but upper management are still unable to get to me RE the refund. I will pass the information on as soon as I have it.
 
Thanks, Sam.
Edited by ViperGRG
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Hi

 

Have you also considered having a wee chat with the RSPCA on this matter mainly because the animal you got was suppose to be health but as you have found out has a lot of medical conditions. Yes it won't help you get a refund but it will raise the issue with the RSPCA of the condition of animals this business is selling.

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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Going to the RSPCA is a perfectly sensible idea – but I would wait until you see the result of this. If you obtain a judgement then you should pass a copy of it to the RSPCA.

In terms of naming the pet shop, if you are taking advice from the CAB then you should stick with them. Trying to ride two horses same time just makes things complicated for you.
Did they explain why you shouldn't name them? Or did you just do what they told you to do.


Have you sent the letter of rejection which I advised above?

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I have sent them this email..see below. *Note they have receipt fir vet fees and vet report sent at the time I received these from vet via emails.*

 

CAB from my understanding thinks it may inflame the situation thus making them hostile and less likley to enter discussions. (Owner has never once contacted me anyhow)

 

 

16.9.21

 

Den

1

G

079

 

 

 

To ?? Pet Centre and ?? Courier.

 

 

I reject the Angolan Python under the 2015 Consumer Goods Act – Not as described and not of a satisfactory quality.

Notified business within 48 hours and my rights legally advised within 30 days.

 

Total amount of debt owed

Angolan Python inc delivery £405

Vet fees £151

Total £556

 

Delivery of the Angolan was taken on 5.6.21 between 8-9 pm.

Upon complaint to Reptasia via email with evidenced pictures and via telephone call on 7.9.21 around 4.30-5pm of the Angolans Malaise – Notified within 48 hours of receiving the animal.

 

Sales agreement was received 7.9.21. – Not with the animal as is warranted by Online and distance selling. ”Provide the copy of contract no later than when the goods are delivered”.

An insurance voucher was received 8.9.21 – Voucher did not work as there was no drop down menu on the Insurance providers site for an Angolan – I emailed the Insurance company to advise and stating I wished to register – To date there has been no resolution from them.

 

Angolan Python take to an Emergency Vet Appointment on 8.9.21.

Held in vets for 6 night due to its extremely poor condition and extent of its illnesses.

Vet listed:

 

Lethargic

Reduced body tone

Extreme RI

Necrotic stomatitis with ulceration and haemorrhage of the mouth with froth and mucus through the mouth

Dermatitis

Erytherma

Damaged deformed spine

Clinical signs of a depressed immune system -Possibley due to an underlying condition -requires further investigation

OVERALL: Snakes prognosis is poor.

 

 

I wish to be paid in full upon collection of the Angolan Python which has been arranged for 16.9.21.

My bank account details are

And my paypal address 

 

 

I am notifying you I intend to take you to court if I do not receive refund for the Angolan Python in full.

Den

 

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I don't understand why you are worried about hostility from this pet shop. They are clearly already sufficiently hostile that they are trying to avoid responsibility and to make life more difficult.
A reference to them on this forum is far more likely to impact them as it will affect their reputation generally and this would put pressure on them to sort things out.

Also, it will show that you are prepared to take control – and at the moment it seems to me that you are being led around by the nose by CAB advice which frankly is half-hearted, overcautious and amounts to a type of victim shaming.

However if you like CAB advice then why don't you simply go to them and follow what they say to the end.

And incidentally, if you care about animals – as I do – it would be in the interest of those animals to let other potential victims know about it as soon as possible.

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The business is named Reptasia Pet Centre Basingstoke. 

He owns Reptasia Animal Courier which was used to courier the animal. 

 

The owner is named Luke Fines. 

 

The snake has been collected today 17.9.21 by Reptasia Courier Service to be returned to Reptasia.

 

I have had no refund at all. 

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Have you sent them a copy of the vets assessment/bills/report – et cetera?

In other words does he have a formal veterinary written opinion of exactly what is wrong and also the costs that you have incurred?

 

And has he formerly declined to refund you those expenses?

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  • BankFodder changed the title to Bought an animal Reptasia Pet Centre Basingstoke Pet Shop -seriously Ill.

The vet report and pictures taken by the vet were sent 9.9.21and receipt for payment sent 16.9.2 via email.

He is in possession of copies of those. 

 

They have said today via email re why the have not refunded me.

 

it is company policy but as soon as its back and inspected it will be sent to accounts to make payment.
 

 

Edited by ViperGRG
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Yes but you missed the point. I expect that they are going to refund you the cost of the state – eventually – but have they said anything in respect of the expenses you have incurred?

Also, have they given you any timescale as to their own assessment of the condition of the snake?

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You mean will they refund the vet fees? 

 

They have not said they will refund any of it.

 

 

His manager Sam at the pet shop has been told not to discuss the issue with me. 

And any attempts to discuss my refund are met with "Luke/upper management will contact you." 

 

The owner Luke Fines has never contacted me.

 

Received today is the nearest Iv came to them saying I will be refunded.

 

"Good morning.

 
The refund will be authorised once it arrives back later today.
 
Kind regards
Richard"
 
 

I have written to Reotasia detailing what I require by way of a refund - detailed in a prev message in this thread. 

Edited by ViperGRG
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Okay well how do you want a play it?

You can either carry on waiting for them to respond or react and come up with a decision one way or the other – or you can decide to take control and assert yourself.

 

If you simply wait for them to respond then it's open-ended because you have managed to get no deadlines for action.

The consumer rights act is completely clear that they are required to refund you as quickly as possible. There is no reason why it should be longer than seven days. The consumer rights act does not deal with the extra expenses that you have incurred – but in my view that is quite satisfactorily dealt with by contract law in general.

I understand that the snake manifested symptoms of illness within the first 48 hours. That you contacted the Reptasia in Basingstoke and they advise you to go to the vet. You followed their instructions and as a result you incurred costs of £151.

 

You are now trying to hold a dialogue with Reptasia and they are declining to communicate.

I see no difficulty in obtaining your refund and also the return of your expenses plus interest which is currently calculated at 8% per annum – simple. An extremely high rate of interest given the current economic situation.

If you want to take control then you should send them an initial letter laying out your position and telling them that there refusal to hold a dialogue with you is unacceptable.
Then if you don't hear back fairly soon and I would say probably about seven days, then you would send a letter of claim and then begin a county court action.

A likely scenario might be that their  vet agrees with your own vet that the serpent was already ill and in which case they will refund you your costs. However they might put their heels in at refunding the extra £151.
Of course a second scenario might be that once you have challenge them in your initial letter that they refund you the lot and that's the end of the problem.

Please let us know which way you want to go at any point out that if you come to threaten legal action then you must follow through. There is no point bluffing. These people are already leading you around by the nose and I'm sure you're not enjoying it. If you take control then you have to keep a tight control all the way – and of course we will help you.

If it went to court then I estimate your chances of success are at better than 95%.

My guess is that if you issued legal proceedings and they would quickly put up their hands. They really don't want to go to the expense of defending this kind of action and they might start to become concerned about their reputation as well.

If you want to draft an initial letter then post it up here. The trick to drafting these letters is to have a minimum of narrative and just simply be factual and short.

Let us know what you want to do 

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They didnt ask me to take the animal to the vet.

I called to advise and followed with an email to them with pictures of it showing its illness on 7.9.21.

 

I got an Emergency appointment for the following day. 8.9.21. Whereupon the vet said the animal was so sick, it required to be kept in for treatment as it really was in a bad way. It was in the vets for 6 nights.

I called each day and the vet said not ready to leave.

 

8.9.21- Reptasia told me I had to activate a free 30 day insurance voucher, (which they only sent On 8.9.21) however I couldn't activate as there is no drop down option for Angolan python. (I suspect it would not be honoured anyhow as the snake would be deemed as having a pre existence condition)

 

After the last post in the thread here above, I resent this to Reptasia today:

"Further to my email of 14th of September, and the previous email sent today, for the avoidance of doubt as the defect in the snake sold to me has manifested itself within 30 days of having bought it, I'm asserting my right to reject the snake under the consumer rights act.

This entitles me to a full refund and in addition, I require you to reimburse me with all of the veterinary costs which I have reasonably incurred so far in an attempt to mitigate and retrieve the situation.

I'm sure you are aware, under the consumer rights act you are obliged to reimburse me the full £556.

 
Regards "
 
 

The reply from Reptasia A few minutes ago

"Good afternoon D

 
Thank you again.
 
This is what we would be paying yes.
 
However I would like to state that the vet bills actually are liable to the vets themselves by refusing to let the animal leave they took on responsibility as per taking possession rules.
 
The insurance was able to be taken out, we called the insurers so none of the costs are liable to ourselves. You may check that with trading standards directly with both points above.
 
However it will be paid, but your knowledge on the law in this situation, unfortunately falls quite short indeed. 
 
I appreciate your effort in trying though.
 
Kind regards
Richard 

 

 

Unfortunately no time scale for payment, but thats the first time he has said it will be paid....

 

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First of all a word on the insurance – for you and also for anybody else who visits this thread.

An insurance which is offered on any item which is purchased including animals amounts to a warranty. You normally find is when people buy used cars.

Warranties are handed out as bonbons and their effect is to try and help the dealer fob the customer off and to distract them from their consumer rights.

Your rights as a consumer are far greater than any rights conferred by an insurance or a warranty – unless some defect manifest itself which was not there at the outset.


I understand here that the so-called 30 day insurance was something which was being offered at your option and this makes it even weaker than one which is actually supplied with the item.

Don't be distracted by the insurance. It is irrelevant and as I've said, is simply a fob-off.

 

I understand that Reptasia are saying that because the vet recommended that the animals stay with them, that the vet bills are the responsibility for the vet. If that's what they are saying then really these people are Reptasia are really stupid. I have no idea what they mean by the "taking possession rules" – and I doubt whether they have any idea either.
There is no such set of rules.

I'm unclear as to what they are actually saying. They appear to be agreeing to send you some kind of refund but it's not clear to me whether that refund includes the vet expenses or not.

What's your take on it?

 

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It sounds like he is saying he will refund what I have askedfor including the vet fees. 

 

How long do I give him to refund? 

 

I think it should be today. Goods returned, so refund should be given ASAP. 

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I would suggest that if you don't have the money in your account by next Friday that we start writing  letters.

 

His letter to you is certainly ambiguous but I suppose it is better to to give him a margin before taking any action.

 

Of course what is unpleasant about his letter is that if indeed he is proposing to refund you the veterinary expenses, then he is expressing it as if he is doing you a favour and as a gesture of goodwill when in fact he has no choice and he is obliged to by law.

 

I find that his message of expression is nasty and jeering.

 

Please keep us updated.

 

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Reptasia UK Ltd

Company Number: 11613589

Register Office Address: Unit 12 Rankine Road, Basingstoke, England, RG24 8GE

Company Status: Active
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Incorporated: 9th October 2018
Accounts Overdue

 

Directors: Luke Malcolm Fines (appointed 9th October 2018)

 

Companies House link:

FIND-AND-UPDATE.COMPANY-INFORMATION.SERVICE.GOV.UK

REPTASIA UK LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return...

 

 


Reptasia Vivariums Ltd

Company Number: 13295598

Registered Office Address: Unit 12 Rankine Road, Basingstoke, England, RG24 8GE

Company Status: Active
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Incorporated: 26th March 2021

 

Directors: Luke Fines

 

Companies House link:

FIND-AND-UPDATE.COMPANY-INFORMATION.SERVICE.GOV.UK

REPTASIA VIVARIUMS LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual...

 

 

Reptasia Ltd

Company Number: 08438711

Registered Office Address: 34-36 Peabody Road, Farnborough, Hampshire, GU14 6EY

Company Status: Dissolved
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Incorporated: 21st August 2018

 

Directors: Luke Malcolm Fines

 

Companies House link:

FIND-AND-UPDATE.COMPANY-INFORMATION.SERVICE.GOV.UK

REPTASIA LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers...

 

 

For Info

 

The Animal Welfare (Licensing of Activities Involving Animals) (England) Regulations 2018:

WWW.LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

These Regulations provide for the licensing of persons involved in England in selling animals as pets, providing or arranging for the provision of boarding...

 

How to Upload Documents/Images on CAG - **INSTRUCTIONS CLICK HERE**

FORUM RULES - Please ensure to read these before posting **FORUM RULES CLICK HERE**

I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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