Rogue roofer

[Lordy lordy]

Had roof fully tiled while away on holiday. Tilers didn't  use a chute but threw tiles into skip causing damage to a car parked on the drive. Boss said would knock money off for damage but they cleaned the car causing scratches all over the car and used window cleaner on it. I did not allow them to do this, is this criminal damage? They also caused damage to a flat roof when they put scaffolding on it which caused the plaster board inside to crack and warp. We had a cash agreement but he is now doing a invoice even though i paid him £1000 cash up front. And is threatening to remove the tiles he put up. They cut a baton short and patched the hole up. What are my legal rights please? TIA

[BankFodder]

What is the name of the roofing company?

No it's not criminal damage. Criminal damage must contain an element of dishonesty and its most unlikely that there was any dishonesty here and even if there was it would be provable.

 Clearly there was a big element of stupidity

Your legal rights are certainly that they are not allowed to enter your property without your permission.

That you are entitled to have all the work carried out with reasonable care and skill and it appears that they haven't done this. The duty of care and skill would extend to the vehicle as well.

It would be helpful if you would lay out in a bullet pointed list precisely what they have done wrong.

Also you will need to get an independent estimate of the damage including an estimate of what remedial work is needed to repair the damage and a quotation for those works.

You should get those as quickly as possible. This is an essential step

Let us know when you get the final bill for the works.

Any documents you post up should be posted in PDF format.

Also please can you present your posts in a well spaced and punctuated form.

Reading a solid block of text is difficult especially for people with a small screen.

[BankFodder]

Also, please will you tell us a bit more about this "cash agreement". Was a particular figure agreed? Where the works to be carried out set out in writing?

[Lordy lordy]

Yes figure was agreed in writing. Also they said would clear all tiles away but left a pile. And that the scaffolding would be moved as soon as possible. Only he won't remove scaffolding till bill is paid in full. Which was not on the quote.

[BankFodder]

So what was the figure and who are the roofing company?

[BankFodder]

Also, presumably he installed the scaffolding. Presumably the installation of the scaffolding was in the quote?

Who does the scaffolding belong to? Is it his or has he rented it?

[Lordy lordy]

No idea, said it's  a contractors

[BankFodder]

2 hours ago, BankFodder said:

What is the name of the roofing company?

 

 

1 hour ago, BankFodder said:

So what was the figure and who are the roofing company?

 

1 hour ago, BankFodder said:

Also, presumably he installed the scaffolding. Presumably the installation of the scaffolding was in the quote?

 

 

Any particular reason why you won't tell us the name of the roofer, the figure that you agreed or whether the scaffolding was in the quote?

 

[BankFodder]

As you may have guessed, yesterday evening we had a major problem with the forum and nobody could post anything.

It seems to have been corrected now so maybe you could let us have the answers to the above questions please

[Lordy lordy]

£6000 cash to be paid 30 days after completion,  including the scaffolding, remove all old tiles, even though a large pile left on drive which dropped off the back of skip when lifted.

Tailor roofing

[BankFodder]

Thanks. Can you tell me whereabouts in the country Tailor Roofing is please.

So you've paid £1000 and in principle you are him £5000 but of course we will have to deduct the costs of making good, carting away et cetera.

Please could you do a bullet pointed list – just a list – of the problems that you can see.

Also as I suggested above, it is essential that you get an independent assessment of the state of the works, any defects, any remedial actions needed to put those defects right and a quotation for doing the job.

This is an essential step and you need to put in hand as quickly as possible.

If it all comes to less than the outstanding £5000 then I'm going to suggest that you pay that amount and then withhold the rest until you have had the remedial works completed.

Also we will have to write to the roof and put him on notice as to the dispute, as to the action you are taking in terms of quotes et cetera and the fact that he is not permitted to enter onto your property for any purposes without prior agreement with you and an appointment. And that any attempt to enter onto your property will be considered to be a trespass.

Please list out the defects et cetera. Please tell us where he is.

[Lordy lordy]

1. Damage to bonnet of car, dents and scratches.

2. Damage to o/s/ front wing scratches. Caused by bombing off scaffold.

3. Damage to flat roof ceiling, caused by insufficient planks being put under scaffold pole and a pole is resting on roof with no base support.

4. Refusing to remove scaffolding even though quote states will be removed as soon as work is complete. Now saying scaffold will be removed after payment made in full.

5. Calling client a troubled person and threatening to remove tiles. In order to get paid quicker.

6. Asking neighbour if she will pay the bill ok.

7. Slating clients car calling it a bag of doodoo and cleaning it without permission causing more damage.

[BankFodder]

You need a quote for the cost of addressing all of these problems.

The quotations you get will have to be from good dependable and verifiable sources.

When you've got that so that we understand the entire value of the issue we can then move forward

[Lordy lordy]

Thanks, I'm on it straight away.

[Lordy lordy]

Anyone know if a new roof should include new  insulation in price, if old insulation is not acceptable ie rockwool.

[BankFodder]

Probably not unless it's been specifically quoted for

[Lordy lordy]

Even though it comes under energy efficiency rules?

[BankFodder]

I'm afraid I'm not qualified to say this.
I think you have to start asking experts as to whether there are legal requirements to have insulation put in when new roofs are built.

What are the energy efficiency rules? Please provide a link to them.

[Lordy lordy]

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/47/roof/4

[BankFodder]

Firstly I notice that although I asked you before, you haven't told us whereabouts in the country this roofing companies.

Secondly, the link you have provided above doesn't seem to be a link to a government or local authority website and that is where I would expect to find regulations. This seems to be a privately run website which apparently makes references to roofing companies that I suppose it takes a cut.

I think you need to have sight of some regulations.

Also if we knew more about this roofing company then we would understand how professional they are.

I understand that you are trying to say that there is an implied term of the contract that they should have fitted insulation at the same time.

I'm not sure what this has to do with all the damage that you suffered unless you are simply looking to get greater leverage.

[Lordy lordy]

The company is based in Wakefield.

The link provided is a national new rules and regulations to do with building regulations backed by the government.

Are you sure you are qualified to give proper advice? As you seem to be behind with the times.

Councils all over the country are aware of the new regulations that have been applied and are regulated by the planning departments of all councils, and building regulations.

All building new or old are now regulated under the thermal element rules.

Or are the building regulations not governed by the government?

[honeybee13]

If you don't mind my saying, LL, it's a bit much to expect someone to advise on both contract law and building regs because I don't think anyone can keep up with both. If you were paying for the advice it would run into the hundreds per hour for each. 

 

BF is excellent on legal matters and has helped a lot of people if you look back at previous threads. 

 

CAG is self help as well, maybe you can help BF with the groundwork on building stuff?

 

HB

[BazzaS]

As a few observations:

a) Criminal damage got mentioned further up the thread with a “requires an element of dishonesty” comment.

Not true, no dishonesty required, though it does require intent or recklessness (so a true accident, absent recklessness, wouldn’t be criminal damage)

 

b) if the original roof wasn’t insulated, and if any replacement now has to be insulated, this could be excluded from a damages claim : damages would be to put you back in the position you were originally in, so a deduction would be made for insulation so as to avoid “betterment”.

 

c) I too think the OP has unrealistic expectations if they want replies from a wide pool of respondents, but then expects them to be experts in all of criminal law, civil law and building regs.

The OP can always ask for only replies from those who claim expertise in all 3 [but may then not get (m)any replies], or can go find a solicitor skilled in all 3, paying for that expert advice ……

OP, you should ask BF for a refund of his charges!!! (Oh, wait a minute …….)

Edited October 2, 2021 by BazzaS

[BankFodder]

I agree that dishonesty is not an element which is required by the criminal damage act, but on the other hand as a way of describing the level of intent – in particular the subjective nature of the it I thought it was a handy analogy.  Maybe I should have been more careful.
Of course the test of recklessness is less subjective and tends to be an objective test so far as I recall.