Unknown VCS CCJ - Bristol Airport - Stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited . Was abroad

[Zimbird]

For Your Information

I have just had all my evidence and cheque returned to my address saying:

 

"Thank you for your aplication

 

Please note that your cheque of £100 and application has been returned as the correct fee for the application is £255.  Cheques or Postal Orders should be made payable to HMCTS.

Alternatively you can pay by credit or debit card by phoning the CCBC Helpdesk between 9am - 3.30pm Monday-Friday.

 

Alternatively, if you believe that you may be eligible for help with fees, you can apply for help by completing an EX160 application.

If you pay the application fee but believe you are eligible for help with court fees, you have 3 months to successfully apply for a refund using the EX160 Form.  You can also apply for help with fees on line at https://www.gov.uk/get-help-with-court-fees.  

 

A copy of your application has not been kept by the court and you must send copies of your application when sending the fee or EX160 / supporting evidence.

 

If you require any further information please email us or contact our help desk on the number above."

 

THEREFORE DO I:

 

1.  Send a cheque for the correct amount of £255 - yes this is obvious!

2.  Do I send the documents and another copy of the documents back.  Just so the court has a copy.

 

Thank you

Julia

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

You did tick without a hearing on the n244?

[Zimbird]

Yes I did

[dx100uk]

weird.....

give em' a ring and ask why

[FTMDave]

Are we sure the fee is £100?  I'm searching & searching and only see £100 quoted when the other side consents.

[dx100uk]

could be not my strongest point...

 

dx

 

[Zimbird]

I am sending them a letter back saying exactly what I had paid for and explaining why I sent them a cheque of £100, but I have also sent another cheque.  Lets see what she comes back with.  Maybe she made the mistake and I have just pointed it out.

Posting again tomorrow!

[dx100uk]

Actually its £255 unless the otherside agree prior

[AndyOrch]

On 15/09/2021 at 12:01, Andyorch said:

Already in my post above.....

 

With hearing £255

Without Hearing £100

 

Depends on whether you requested a hearing and if it actually requires a hearing.

[FTMDave]

Any update on this Zimbird?  Have you been told your hearing date yet?

[Zimbird]

Hi there again.  

Sorry it took a bit of time as I had to get my tenant to forward my mail.

this is what I have received.

Hearing Date 15 November 12 noon - Telephone Hearing - 1hr - Bristol County Court

 

 need to:

File with the court and serve the other parties with any skeleton argument in respect of my application

 

I send an email with my the subject line format; “10am 21.05.13 Smith v Jones 1BS12345”.

With my application I have to send through any documents that I intend to rely on at my hearing

Also I have to makes sure the other party is copied in.  Do I just use their email: [email protected]?

 

Your advice now would be so gratefully received - ie. how to make an application and what documents I need to substantiate my application.

Notice of Hearing P1.pdf

 

Notice of Hearping P2.pdfJust so you can see Page 2 as well.

[dx100uk]

3 hours ago, Zimbird said:

“10am 21.05.13 Smith v Jones 1BS12345”.

well with your name and your case number ofcourse....

[Zimbird]

Yes of course !

[FTMDave]

Well done on successfully getting the hearing.

 

I think the stuff you need to prepare for the hearing is identical to that which you attached to your set aside application

- evidence you were in Zimbabwe and never got the claim form

- the list of reasons why you intend to defend the claim.

 

Maybe produce a Witness Statement to tie the strands together, like what you wrote in point 10 of your application.

 

It won't be much consolation given all the hassle you've gone through, but what you are doing will help others in a similar position in future.  From time to time people get backdoor CCJs and we don't want them to throw away £255 for nothing.  The result of your case will show others the right action to take.

[Zimbird]

Having never been to court I am quite apprehensive and need to understand what I am saying

Can you give any indication how it will work - what I will need to say etc.

Also I don't understand everything as I was helped to write my defence

ie.  

1.  Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012

2.  Locus Stands - the claimant is not the landowner - can I have the arguments why not being the landowner means he has know authority to issue a ticket - surely he is employed by the landowner?

3.  Bristol Airport is covered by bye-laws, a traffic violation should be prosecuted in the Magistrates Court, a private company can't replace the police or magistrates - can you elaborate - what bye-law - any previous arguments on this point?

4.  How do we know the claimant has not obtained planning permission for their signs which is a criminal offence (is it, why?)

and makes it impossible to have formed a contract with the driver - what does this mean exactly?

5.  How is the claimant claiming the debt, legal costs and an extra invented sum as an attempt at double recovery which invalidates the whole claim?  How does it invalidate the claim?

 

Thanks

 

[FTMDave]

Remember that this hearing is not the court battle between you and VCS to decide if you owe them money for their ticket or not.  That will come much later if you win this round and want to keep fighting them.

 

The hearing is simply to set aside judgement given you had no chance to defend your claim before.  The judge will want to know (a) if you acted promptly once you found out about the CCJ, (b) why you didn't defend before and (c) if you have a chance of defending your claim. 

 

That said, you're right to want to understand the legal arguments and it's always better to prepare too much rather than too little.  So I'll try to answer some of your points.

 

1.  You were not the driver of the vehicle.  You were nowhere near the airport.  So why the hell are VCS suing you rather than the driver?  There is part of a law, Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, which does allow liability to be passed from the driver to the keeper but your case is that VCS have not respected the norms of this law.

 

2.  VCS may be employed by the landowner or they may not, you simply don't know.  That's for them to prove.  They have often been tripped up by showing out of date or unsigned contracts.  in reality their contracts are almost never with the landowner but with an intermediary management committee and of very dubious legality.

 

3.  VCS have lost on bye-laws many times.  Go and look up the bye-laws for Bristol airport.  They can't substitute themselves for the police or the magistrates.  If you saw someone you recognised vandalising road signs in the street where you lived you wouldn't start issuing them with fines, you would have no authority to do so.  You would call the police and they would be prosecuted.  Same thing.  

 

Work calls now.  I'll deal with (4) and (5) later tonight unless someone else explains before.

[honeybee13]

Zimbird, you can read up on other threads here, it's the only way to gain confidence. You could start with threads about Bristol airport to see the arguments people have used and about airport bylaws. After that, other airport threads will help. 

 

You can do a search on CAG, in the red strip at the top of this page. 

 

HB

[FTMDave]

OK, back again.  So.

 

4.  We don't know.  It is up to VCS to prove the do have PP.  And as in just about every VCS case they show total contempt for the legal procedure and never obtain PP we can hazard a guess as to which it is.  This is a breach of their Code of Practise which they sign up to where they state they obtain all legal permissions.  No planning permission is a criminal offence under The Town and County Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007 and means a contract cannot have been formed with them.  To give the extreme example which is usually quoted.  Someone promises a hitman a large sum of money for carrying out a murder.  The hitman does so but is never paid.  The hitman cannot sue for the money as murder is a criminal offence.  That is an extreme example but the point stands.  If you want to be sure, contact the local council and find out if VCS have PP.  They won't.

 

5.  Should you really owe this money. VCS are entitled to sue you for £100 plus their costs.  But they are suing you for £160 plus their costs.  Where has the extra £60 come from?  They've just made it up.  We've seen cases where VCS actually won at court, but the judges invariably disallowed this extra £60.  Some judges have been so annoyed with VCS's antics that they have chucked out the whole case on the basis of the made-up £60 alone.

 

As well as the airport threads HB advises, have a read of EL21's excellent Witness Statement at, I think, post 120 in  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/430570-vcs-2vanishing-windscreen-pcns-now-claimform-brook-retail-car-park-ruislip-claim-dismissed/page/5/#comments  Don't worry, you don't have to write a document like EL21's!  Although EL21 was in a retail park, not near an airport, a lot of the legal arguments are the same.

 

[dx100uk]

most of your statement is supplemental evidence supporting your n244.

 

the n244 must meet two criteria.

 

1 a good reason why you did not received or reply to the original claim form - your is perfect - you were abroad.

 

2. a basic reason why you do not own the sum claimed. 

 

most set a sides concerning your reason one succeed without too much reliance upon 2.

 

everything else you mention above are supplementary information to support 1/2.

 

the only advantage to include it is to dissuade a further hearing. 

 

 

[Zimbird]

Thank you all for your comments.  I now have to do a bit of reading and will come back to you with any further queries.

Appreciate your time.

Thank you

 

I have a couple of questions - see below in red.

 

2. a basic reason why you do not own the sum claimed.  What does this mean - I do not own the sum claimed?  Does this mean that I have to prove I can't pay the £257 claimed? Please give me an example of what I should say.

 

most set a sides concerning your reason one succeed without too much reliance upon 2. everything else you mention above are supplementary information to support 1/2. the only advantage to include it is to dissuade a further hearing.   

 

Will I have the option of going further after my judgement regarding my set aside?  What do you suggest is my best option.  Will I have to pay the £257 if I get my set aside?

 

As well as the airport threads HB advises, have a read of EL21's excellent Witness Statement at, I think, post 120 in  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/430570-vcs-2vanishing-windscreen-pcns-now-claimform-brook-retail-car-park-ruislip-claim-dismissed/page/5/#comments  Don't worry, you don't have to write a document like EL21's!  Although EL21 was in a retail park, not near an airport, a lot of the legal arguments are the same.

 

Yes you are correct a lot of the arguments are very similar.  Should I copy EL21's format of his Witness Statement - should I present my case in a similar format for the County Court Judge?

I should be almost ready to present it to you to have a look - however it won't be so technical as EL21's (which was amazing). 

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

On 01/11/2021 at 17:23, Zimbird said:

What does this mean - I do not own the sum claimed?  Does this mean that I have to prove I can't pay the £257 claimed? Please give me an example of what I should say.

Just use the draft defence document you already have.

 

On 01/11/2021 at 17:23, Zimbird said:

Will I have the option of going further after my judgement regarding my set aside?  What do you suggest is my best option.  Will I have to pay the £257 if I get my set aside?

If you get your set aside, you can either give in and pay the £257 or decide to fight VCS.  Up to you.  Just concentrate on step one, getting the set aside for now.  The rest is for later.

 

On 01/11/2021 at 17:23, Zimbird said:

Yes you are correct a lot of the arguments are very similar.  Should I copy EL21's format of his Witness Statement - should I present my case in a similar format for the County Court Judge?

EL21's WS was for the actual court battle with VCS.  You're not at that stage.  You don't need anything like EL21's.  Just regurgitate what you wrote when you applied for the set aside in a draft WS.

 

On 01/11/2021 at 17:23, Zimbird said:

I should be almost ready to present it to you to have a look - however it won't be so technical as EL21's (which was amazing).

When you're ready, we are!

[Zimbird]

FTM Dave thank you - will put it up this weekend for you to see and with what I will submit as evidence.  Cheers for your response.

[Zimbird]

FTM Dave I put up my WS1 and WS2 pages for your approval before I email to the court, but my post seems to have been modified and I can't see them.

Can you let me know urgently if these are good to go and my list of evidence - I wanted to know if you approved of everything I was going to submit.

I am getting a bit anxious as set aside hearing is in 5 days time so tomorrow I have to submit my evidence via email.

[FTMDave]

Nothing is on your thread and no-one on the Site Team has modded any post, had they done so I would be able to see it.

 

Please upload again.

 

If you can do so this afternoon we'll look at the documents straight away.

[Zimbird]

 

 

this the document I wish to submit to the Bristol Court asap together with the evidence:

 

EVIDENCE

Covid PCR Test result on 30.9.20 - but this has the drivers name (my husband) on it - so is this a good idea? - however it does prove he was actually looking for a PCR test centre on that day.

Residence Permit in Passport - to prove I am resident in Zimbabwe

Flight to Guernsey on 7.10.21 - when I left Bristol

Flight to Zimbabwe (left Guernsey on 1st Nov, & then onward on 25th November to Zimbabwe - went to live in London in interim) - maybe this is unnecessary as it just complicates.  However I did not go back to Bristol as had let my flat.

Flight to Greece - Emirates 15/16 June 2021 - Proves when I left Zimbabwe - we had to go via Greece for 10 days to be able to enter UK (Zim was red listed at the time!)

BA flight to UK from Greece - 26th June - DATE WE ENTERED UK THIS YEAR

Covid Test results proving arrival in UK on 26th June - Test Results 6 July 2020 - release date

 

Just need you to approve all the above as well as my Witness Statement above.

Many thanks

 

defendants WS.pdf