Unknown VCS CCJ - Bristol Airport - Stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited . Was abroad

[Zimbird]

The sample of my letter.  Please note the original letter received was a CN Charge Notice not a PCN.

Also all I can see on the letter from ELMS is a Claim number not a Case number - so I have changed it.

 

Vehicle Control Services Limited

P O Box 4777

Sheffield S9 9DJ

  

19 August 2021
 

Re: CN no. VCS………., County Court Claim No. H……….

 

As I live abroad, I have only recently picked up all together a number of pieces of correspondence starting with your CN and ending with a Country Court judgement.

 

I had no opportunity to pay the PCN within the normal time frame or to use the appeals procedure.

 

This letter does not admit liability.  However you would be paid – say by post dated cheque – and I would be free of damage to my credit file.  

 

I look forward to receiving your reply as soon as possible.

 

Please let me know if 1st September is a good date for the post dated cheque?

 

Thank you

 

ok I will send them an email first: to [email protected]

 

Can you look at my email letter and approve it and then I will press send.

 

Vehicle Control Services Limited

P O Box 4777

Sheffield S9 9DJ

  

19 August 2021

 

Dear Sirs 

 

Re: CN no. VCS………., County Court Claim No. H……….

 

As I live abroad, I have only recently picked up all together a number of pieces of correspondence starting with your CN and ending with a Country Court judgement.

 

I had no opportunity to pay the PCN within the normal time frame or to use the appeals procedure.

 

This letter does not admit liability.  However you would be paid – say by post dated cheque – and I would be free of damage to my credit file.  

 

I look forward to receiving your reply as soon as possible.

 

Yours faithfully 

 

 

 

J.      M……..

 

[FTMDave]

You haven't included what you want them to do - agree to a set aside.

 

Their very first letter should have referred to a PCN number, but it doesn't really matter, PCN or CN, it's the same number.

 

The date of the post-dated cheque - if they agree - will depend on what date the court will give you to decide on the set aside, so leave that for the moment.

 

Vehicle Control Services Limited

P O Box 4777

Sheffield S9 9DJ

 

19 August 2021

 
Dear Sirs 

 

Re: PCN no. VCS………., County Court Claim No. H……….

 

as I live abroad, I have only recently picked up all together a number of pieces of correspondence starting with your PCN and ending with a Country Court judgement.

 

I had no opportunity to pay the PCN within the normal time frame or to use the appeals procedure.

 

This letter does not admit liability.  However, I would be willing to pay the CCJ amount of £257 were you willing to consent to the judgement being set aside.  You would be paid - say by post-dated cheque - and I would be free of damage to my credit file.

 

I look forward to receiving your reply as soon as possible.

 

Yours faithfully 

 

 

 

J.      M……..

[Zimbird]

Just for the record I have email them the letter above.  Do you think I should post it too, if I don't hear from them in the next few days.

[FTMDave]

You can do if you wish, I don't think it really makes much difference.  Either VCS will play ball or they won't.

 

When are you likely to go to Zimbabwe next?

[Zimbird]

Not for awhile but I leave my Bristol address at the end of September.

[FTMDave]

OK, good, that gives us five weeks to see if there is any further action from the fleecers regarding either of your threads. 

 

BTW, please update this thread ten days after your mail to VCS, even if you haven't received a reply. 

[Zimbird]

Absolutely - will do - have noted in my diary!

[FTMDave]

I've had to hide your posts because you left your full name showing in the attachments.

 

Don't phone anyone for the moment.

 

You say "after no doubt receiving what I sent them".  Who did you write to?  VCS or Elms?  The forum advice was to write to VCS.

[Zimbird]

This is what I sent to the VCS on 19.8.21

Letter VCS 19.8.21.pdf

 

This is what I received just now from ELMS Legal

ELMS Ref VCS 4144903N 7.9.21.pdf

[FTMDave]

I can understand where you're coming from.  If you're in legal dispute and the other party has a solicitor, logically you would communicate with the solicitor.  But this is a private parking ticket originally for £100.  The private parking companies don't instruct solicitors over such a small sum.  VCS send out their own county court claim forms and indeed write their own Witness Statements for court (see post 93 from yesterday in RL21's thread).  All Elms do is send a few standard threatening letters.  

 

In fact Elms have fallen out with VCS and no longer even send the letters (post 80 in the same thread).  Presumably you were on a list of cases before the falling out.

 

You did the right thing to write to VCS but clearly they won't play ball.  It was always a long shot.  But worth a try.  I'm afraid now your options are very limited and pretty unpalatable.

 

1.  Simply don't pay.  We have never seen even a single case of VCS using bailiffs over a single parking ticket, although just to make sure you could inform them of your change of address when you go to Zimbabwe.  The bad side of course is a trashed credit file for six years.

 

2.  Apply for a set aside.  This would cost you £255.  You've seen the form is simple.  The hearing would be simple too, in normal times 15 minutes in front of a judge, due to COVID now probably 15 minutes on the phone to a  judge.  I contacted a Cagger who recently got a set aside and this person said that there were 21 days between submitting the form and getting the hearing.  You would have to explain to the judge (a) why you didn't defend in the first place, easy enough, and (b) briefly how you would defend in a rematch ... not so easy.  My fellow Site Team member dx100uk is very pessimistic about your chances of success.  Given the vast number of posts dx has made and the long length of time as a member of the site, I tend to take a lot of notice when dx expresses an opinion!

 

Watch out too that even if you did get a set aside the matter wouldn't end there, you wouldn't have "lost" the court case any more and the CCJ would go, but you'd still be being sued by VCS (although obviously we would help with defending the claim).

 

So it's up to you, it depends on how damaging a bad credit file would be and if you can afford to pay £255 potentially for nothing.

 

Don't take too long to decide, if you do go for the set aside the court expects it to be done "promptly".

Edited September 13, 2021 by FTMDave
Typos

[Zimbird]

I would happily defend myself and ask for a set aside but the Claim Form was issued on 28 April 2021.  

So I believe it has now been too long.  What do you say?

Is there anyone I could talk to about how to proceed, if there was any chance of getting my CCJ removed, I would prefer to do this, even if I had to pay.  I don't mind talking to the court, because basically my only crime was hesitating in the rain for 30 seconds in a non stopping zone, trying to work out where I should drive to.  

And then not being in the country to pick up my mail - all correspondence was received after I left the country.

 

However I don't want to ring the Money Claims Online Number if it means I have to pay £235 and then am not able to appeal for a Set Aside.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Zimbird

[FTMDave]

I don't think it's too late at all.  At no point have you been lazy or twiddled your thumbs.  As soon as you found out about the CCJ you came here to ask for legal advice, then you contacted VCS to see if they would accept to set aside by consent to save everyone's time, as soon as it became apparent they wouldn't cooperate you approached the court yourself.  I don't think a judge would have a problem with that timescale.

 

If you pay the £255 fee you will have the chance to explain yourself to a judge - guaranteed.

 

What is not guaranteed is that the judge will be convinced to set aside.  Indeed vastly-experienced Cagger dx100uk is pessimistic.

 

dx will probably visit the thread later.  I suggest to read dx's opinion, have a think overnight and then decide tomorrow what you want to do, as speed now is of the essence.

[Zimbird]

Ok I will wait to see if DX has a further opinion.  

I have just sent the email again to the CPS and this time got an automatic response.

It said that if a claim had been issued then the CPS would not deal with any further appeals.  It said direct your defence at the County Court Business Centre (CCBC).

I just need to know each step I have to take so as to do it correctly.  This is the first time and I am trying to take all the information in.  If I were to pay the £257, I need to make sure I pay the correct person and then get a chance to speak to a judge.  If it is not set aside then I will have at least paid the money and it will be recorded as paid on my CCJ surely?

It is worth taking the risk I think - please let me know step by step what to do now.

 

[FTMDave]

Of course we will be happy to guide you, also because I think you are mixing different amounts up.

 

The £255 and the £257 are completely different figures.  £255 is a fee you would pay to the court to ask the court to do something, in your case to give you a hearing where you request the CCJ be set aside.  This is money that would be paid to the state.

 

£257 is the amount VCS claimed from you and which, at the moment, the court has ordered you to pay - to VCS.

 

What has happened to you, legally, is more or less -

 

1.  VCS claimed the £257 by county court claim form.

2.  There was a period of time when you could admit the debt, deny it, admit part of it, counter claim, offer to pay bit by bit, etc.

3.  As you didn't reply you lost the case by default.

4.  As you didn't pay VCS within 30 days you got a CCJ.

 

The whole point of a set aside is to wind time back so to speak to point (2).

 

Why would a judge allow that?  Partly because you should have a chance to defend yourself.  If you admit you owe VCS the judge will refuse, after all what's the point of you "unlosing" a court case if you just immediately lose again.  Paying VCS the £257 is the worst of the worst thing you can do.  It won't get rid of the CCJ.  It will kill any chance of getting a set aside as you'll be admitting you owe the money and it was right you lost the case. 

 

Anyway, as a first step let's await the wise head of dx.

[Zimbird]

Thank you for spelling it out clearly for me.  

I wonder if I could win the case.  The CCTV footage was 3 pictures of me stopping where it said "Stop" on the road and there was clearly a large white line there also.  I still don't know what I did wrong to be honest.

It looked like it was raining and the first picture had the time 14.27.06 and the third picture had the time 14.27.43.

Which is 37 seconds.  I cannot remember it well and can only see that I hesitated for 37 seconds.  

If you think I have a case then it is worth going the whole way.

I am happy to do as instructed by you all.

[dx100uk]

Is a ccj going to harm you...any uk assets?

[dx100uk]

On 17/08/2021 at 17:37, dx100uk said:

it might be cheaper to simply pay this.

set aside is £255 with no guarantee of winning.

 

when was the judgement handed down?

 

[Zimbird]

On the the ELMS Legal letter it says a default judgement has been entered against you on 19.5.21.  It says I had a 30 day period from 19.5.21 in which the judgement was entered in order to qualify for having the CCJ removed.

 

I don''t know if the CCJ will effect me, but I am 59, I have a joint mortgage for a small flat and I might want to try and get another mortgage in the next 6 years - but living abroad means you have to put down a massive 40% before one can get another mortgage - so It might not be possible.  I might rent though, and then the CCJ will definitely affect me.

[FTMDave]

So the choice is as explained in post 38 - either put up with the effects of the CCJ or else fork out £255 to try to get a set aside with no guarantee of success.  You need to decide, and you need to decide tomorrow.

[Zimbird]

Ok thank you.

I want to pay the £255 and have a go at getting a "Set Aside".

Please explain how I do this and who I pay.

Just don't want to get it wrong.

Thanks

[dx100uk]

 

County court judgments for debt: Cancel the judgment - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

---

What to do if you receive a county court judgment (CCJ) - how to get it set aside or change what you pay, what happens if you do not pay, how to...

 

 

download the N244

i would go for an on the papers only set aside hearing - cost £100

reasons:

you were and remain resident abroad upon the issuance of the CCJ

the incident was for less the 30 secs whereby there is a mandated industry 10mind grace period for all Private Parking Matters before a Ticket can be issued.

 

just musings 

 

dx

 

[brassnecked]

DX's suggestions look like best way forward, the points are pretty compelling as such, to let the Judge see you have a reasonable chance of a successful defence to the original Invoice.

[Zimbird]

Ok downloading today and will collect at lunch time.  Will go through the form and might ask you for more advice if I get stuck.

Thank you

[FTMDave]

I was in the middle of drafting the below when dx posted, so have included dx's point.

 

Hold fire for a little while, your case is a little different to what we're used to here, I want other Site Team members with more experience to have a look and see if what I've written is OK.

 

 

I am normally based in Zimbabwe, living at XXXXX, and so I did not receive the county court claim form issued on XXXXX which was sent to an old address in England.  I became aware of the County Court Judgement against me on XXXXX when I returned to the UK and picked up post from this old address.  I immediately took legal advice and then contacted the Claimant by e-mail and Royal Mail to request they consent to a set aside order.  The Claimant has not replied, thus this application to the court.

If the set aside order is granted, I intend to defend the claim on the basis that:
   (1) the incident in question took less than 30 seconds, there is a mandatory industry-wide 10-minute grace period for all private parking matters before a ticket can be issued;  
   (2) the Claimant is suing the wrong person, the Claimant should be suing the driver of the vehicle and has not established keeper liability under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2010;
   (3) Locus Standi - the Claimant is not the landowner;
   (4) Bristol Airport is covered by bye-laws, a traffic violation should be prosecuted in the Magistrates' Court, a private company cannot take it upon themselves to replace the police or magistrates;
   (5) I do not believe the Claimant has obtained planning permission for their signs which is a criminal offence and makes it impossible to have formed a contract with the driver;
   (6) the Claimant is claiming the debt, legal costs and an extra invented sum as an attempt at double recovery which invalidates the whole claim.

I will be returning to Zimbabwe in early November and would respectfully request a hearing date before then if possible.

[Zimbird]

 

I have made changes to make it more accurate:  

 

I am normally based in Zimbabwe, living at XXXXX, and so I did not receive the county court claim form issued on XXXXX which was sent to my tenanted address in England.  I became aware of the County Court Judgement against me on XXXXX when I returned to the UK and picked up post from this address.  I immediately took legal advice and then contacted the Claimant twice by e-mail to request they consent to a set aside order.  The Claimant has not replied, thus this application to the court.

If the set aside order is granted, I intend to defend the claim on the basis that:
   (1) the incident in question took less than 30 seconds, there is a mandatory industry-wide 10-minute grace period for all private parking matters before a ticket can be issued;  
   
   (3) Locus Standi - the Claimant is not the landowner;
   (4) Bristol Airport is covered by bye-laws, a traffic violation should be prosecuted in the Magistrates' Court, a private company cannot take it upon themselves to replace the police or magistrates;
   (5) I do not believe the Claimant has obtained planning permission for their signs which is a criminal offence and makes it impossible to have formed a contract with the driver;
   (6) the Claimant is claiming the debt, legal costs and an extra invented sum as an attempt at double recovery which invalidates the whole claim.

I will be returning to Zimbabwe in early November and would respectfully request a hearing date before then if possible.