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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
        • Thanks
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 162 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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CEL ANPR PCN - POPLA unsuccessful -PAPLOC - Now Claimform - Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park, London SE5 8RW - paid have receipt too! ***Claim Discontinued***


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1 hour ago, Annabooo said:

I have a receipt as proof of payment and also proof of calls from my phone made within 10mins of entering the car park.

Superb.  CEL don't have a leg to stand on.

 

1 hour ago, Annabooo said:

Shall I ignore all letters and look out for the Letter of claim?

Exactly.

 

Just to get all your ducks in a row - I'm confused as to why you mention two notifications from CEL.  Please redact these and upload them.

We could do with some help from you.

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Apologies.  I missed the bit about them sending the first invoice to your husband.

 

CEL are a disgrace, and so are POPLA for not accepting your appeal, but hey, that's the private parking industry for you.

 

I doubt very much CEL would dare take you to court, but if they did they'd get a hammering from the judge.  You paid, they suffered no loss.  The three-minute delay is "de minimis" - and indeed was caused by CEL.  They haven't got a hope.

 

Relax now but come back if they send a Letter Before Claim (as well as relaxing read some CEL threads to familiarise yourself with the daft threats they'll make).

 

The PCN they sent to you would be useful to see if you can upload it.

 

Learn from the experience and don't appeal in future.  As you've seen, the appeal procedure is a con and skewed towards finding against the motorist.  They also didn't know who was driving originally - but you told them.  Not of this is fatal as their claim is total pants but something to learn from.

We could do with some help from you.

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That's disgraceful from POPLA, but it's typical that these appeal bodies only consider the made-up rules of the private parking industry and ignore the law in England and Wales.

 

The good side of course is that a proper judge would hammer CEL.  If you want a good laugh, see how this case turned out for the PPC  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/419485-excelbwelms-anpr-pcn-paploc-now-claimform-but-i-paid-providince-st-wakefield-wf1-3bg-claim-dismissed/#comments

 

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 1 year later...

CAG is self-help and we always encourage posters to read as many similar threads as possible so they can gen up on the legal process and see what is likely to happen.

 

We always say to send the snotty letter both to the likes of DCBL and directly to the fleecers like CEL.  That is because DCBL are highly likely to pretend to CEL that they have received no reply form you and to egg CEL on to start a hopeless court case.  After all, it's £££££ in for DCBL.  In this murky world of fleecing and backstabbing these companies are not only out to get the motorist, they're out to get each other.

 

Tomorrow invest in two 2nd class stamps and send your letter, as it is, both to DCBL and CEL, and get two free Certificates of Posting from the post office.

 

Personally I wouldn't mention the e-mail question now.  It's too late for that.  Essentially you're telling them to Foxtrot Oscar.  Now's not the time to tell them to use snail mail for communications in future, you don't want any communications from them in future!!!

 

However HB and BN are right.  If by some horror they don't crawl back under their stone and keep on with hassling you, then they need to be told not to use e-mail, but leave that for later.

 

EDIT  I've just reread the last posts and see you have e-mailed them and told them not to use e-mail.  OK, fair enough.  Send the two hard copies off from the post office when you have time.

Edited by FTMDave
Extra info added
  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

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Apologies.  I forgot to mention.  Write COPIED TO CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD at the bottom of the letter.

 

Then DCBL will know you've sussed them and have communicated with their clients directly.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 1 month later...

I'm rereading your thread and CEL really have a hopeless case, but are no doubt using the prospect of court to to try to intimidate you into paying.

 

Well done on looking up what to do.

 

Get Acknowledgement of Service done.

 

Then send a CPR request to DCBL.  Get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

We could do with some help from you.

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To answer your questions, the small clams process is very easy, there's no need to get someone to do it for you.

 

If you win you can get your costs for time off work, postage, etc.

 

That's unless the judge decides CEL have been unreasonable in litigation and in that case you can claim preparation time.  Given their rubbish case, that's at least a possibility. 

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The  defence is fine.

 

File it today if you want... but you could wait till say 7 November just to keep the fleecers guessing.

 

Yes, after that CEL will consider the defence and it is 99.99% likely you'll move on to DQ stage.

 

As dx says, the best possible thing you can do is read other threads with "claimform" in the title to gen up on the legal process.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 1 month later...

If you're worried about missing court deadlines, simply download the form and fill it in.  It's just a short, simple, form.  There's nothing special about the version sent by the court.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track

 

Following dx's instructions, fill in & sign one version, then scan & e-mail it to the court.  Make sure to put the claim number and the names of both parties in the subject field.  Click on "Return Receipt".

 

Send the fleecers' theirs without a signature, 2nd class post as that's all they're worth, and get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

We could do with some help from you.

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The e-mail address is fine.

 

You don't need to send to both CEL and DCBL, just to the one address they put on the claim form for service of documents.

We could do with some help from you.

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Point noted for the future about the e-mail address dx - thanks.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to CEL ANPR PCN POPLA unsuccessful PAPLOC Now Claimform - Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park, London SE5 8RW - paid have receipt too!
  • 2 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Yes,. you need to find out if they have paid the hearing fee.

It's a pain but you'll have to keep on trying to contact the court.

We could do with some help from you.

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This is very, very promising.

The fleecers don't write a WS.  On the phone the court talk about discontinuance.  Your case is exactly the type that the charlatans often wet their pants about at the last minute.  It all adds up.

But no chickens should be counted!

What is the date of your hearing?

We could do with some help from you.

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Yes, it's highly likely a letter from the court or from the fleecers will drop through your letter box shortly.

We could do with some help from you.

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I would suggest waiting till the end of the month to see if a welcome letter pops through your letter box, which is highly likely.

If nothing appears, please come back here on 1 August.

We could do with some help from you.

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This must be extremely annoying.  Sadly I don't think there's any alternative than to keep pushing for an answer.  You can't be left with uncertainty till the day before the hearing!

1.  Call the court - again - and ask what the status of the claim is.  If they say it's been discontinued ask them to e-mail you so you have it in writing.

2.  E-mail the court - again - and ask them the status of the claim.

3.  Phone DCBL and ask them if they are proceeding with the claim.  If they say it has been discontinued then say you have had nothing in writing and will they e-mail you the Notice of Discontinuance.

We could do with some help from you.

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Point taken about the court.

Yes, phone DCBL.  They might confirm discontinuance and then e-mail confirmation.

Or they may be a waste of time.  But it can't harm you.

Don't worry about the use of e-mail, if the case is over it won't matter if they e-mail you.

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Have a read of the last page of this thread  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/454769-ukpc-court-claim-crownhill-retail-park-pl6-5us-no-parking-claim-discontinued/page/2/#google_vignette

 

This is what DCBL are supposed to do when discontinuing, so it's worth ringing them.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to CEL ANPR PCN - POPLA unsuccessful -PAPLOC - Now Claimform - Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park, London SE5 8RW - paid have receipt too! **CLAIM DISCONTINUED**
  • AndyOrch changed the title to CEL ANPR PCN - POPLA unsuccessful -PAPLOC - Now Claimform - Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park, London SE5 8RW - paid have receipt too! ***Claim Discontinued***

Once again, congratulations on standing up to these charlatans - and winning.

Thanks also for reporting back.  Your experience will help & encourage others to not give in.

As DCBL are solicitors, I suggest you complain about them to the SRA  https://www.sra.org.uk

We know the SRA will do Foxtrot Oscar, but it will be some hassle for DCBL who will have to explain themselves, and maybe possibly perhaps if eventually enough people complain the SRA might move their little finger.

 

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 2 months later...

Yes, well done with at least causing DCBL hassle and forcing them to scurry around and make up some ridiculous excuse.

We could do with some help from you.

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CEL are idiots, you'll be on a list of non-payers and they'll just automatically have sent out the LBC without bothering to check that the matter has already been dealt with by the courts.

It depends what you want to achieve.

1.  If you want to get rid of them do as dx says and also add a blistering letter warning them that'll you'll smash them for costs galore if they're so damn thick as to take the same matter to court twice. 

2.  If you want to annoy them and waste their time then ignore the LBC in the hope that they really will start a new court claim - that would lead to humiliation galore for them but also of course eat up your own spare time.

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

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