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£400 Item sold on Ebay - Hermes lost parcel within 19h **Solved**


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Hello everyone,

 

I have sold an item on Ebay for £374.99 and, since the parcel was a super ultrawide 44" monitor, the only company that would accept a 110cm parcel in length with 13.6kg weight was Hermes, so sadly I had to go with them, hoping for the best.

 

Hermes Postage Cost:

The postage cost was: 9.44

 

The extra signature proof cost was: £0.90 

 

No extra insurance cost paid because it would only cover up £300, and the item is part of their "prohibited" list (as far as I understand they don't even insure prohibited items, right?), so I would be missing on £74.99 of insurance.

 

Total Hermes postage as per invoice: £10.34

 

Story time:

July 16th 2021: Postage paid for, label created, parcel prepped, collection for next day scheduled.

 

July 17th 2021: "Your friendly local courier will be calling to collect your parcel today" (Tracking number) & "Hi - we will collect your parcels between 8am - 8pm on Saturday 17th July". No one calls, courier arrives at 8:21PM, collects the parcel and gives me a collection receipt. I ask him "how come it is after the given 8-8PM time slot". He replied "I am from a parcelshop, I am not one of the official Hermes couriers, I had to do some deliveries and after finishing everything had to do your collection. Will go to the depot now to scan and drop your parcel".

 

July 18th 2021 - 10:06AM: The parcel is finally scanned at the local depot. Tracking states "Your parcel is at our local depot and on its way to you". This is the last update, the package got lost here. So here are 2 interesting things to note, firstly it was never dropped that night to the Depot in London, but the morning next day, after a total of 19h have elapsed. Secondly, it only took them 19h to lose my package. This makes me think that maybe the courier went home with the parcel, unpacked everything and then removed the label and just scanned the label at the warehouse to remove his "footsteps", and therefore, stole the parcel.

 

July 21st 2021: Buyer grows impatient, asks me where the parcel is, since they haven't received anything. I tell them that sometimes parcels get delivered while the tracking number is not working, and that I will be calling Hermes Customer Assistant, after we wait a few days.

 

July 23rd 2021: 6 days after the parcel was collected, still no updates on the tracking number. I call customer support, which was a pain to go through, especially their automated systems. I spoke to a man, he tells me that the week prior has been quite busy for the Hermes Network, and all packages got delayed by a few days, so please wait until the 26th of July, if nothing, then create a claim for missing parcel on their websites.

 

Waited till the 27th of July, with no update. Tried to start an investigation online on their website, but the digital assistant would always say "You've already contacted us for this", which is incorrect. You can see a video demo of the issue here: https://youtu.be/U7PVETKZlyA

 

Ebay case started by the buyer on the 29th of July for "Item not received".

 

August 5th 2021: I tried for 2 WEEKS, to use their digital assistant to start an investigation and was not able to do anything. I call Hermes support once again, explain to them the issue with the parcel that's gone missing almost 3 weeks ago, and how I've already called someone and have not been unable to use the digital assitant. They send me an email titled "Shipped chasing parcel" with a lost claim form and an "After an extensive investigation, we have been able to locate the parcel". Now what I find funny, is that I was just speaking to the CS Rep and got the email from them, so the "extensive investigation" bs is just a template, with no actual investigation having been performed. I wonder if this can be used against them. (Here is the recorded call audio: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B5y_cqR3FK2dIeIRFrdAoTscV9i6WaPS/view?usp=sharing )

 

August 5th 2021 2PM: I complete the lost claim and provide package description, item size/weight, item value, postage value and PDF proof for all of this, as well as item number, which was requested by them. (I have attached Claim Form and transaction proof as PDF)

 

August 9th 2021: I tell the buyer than in the email from Hermes it states "Please note: should you choose to issue a refund before this claim is finalised then you must do so at your own risk. If the parcel is located it will be delivered to the intended recipient and the claim will be closed", so I am unable to offer them the refund as I am willing to go through a money claim and want to do everything as needed, and to get Ebay to get involved and proceed with a decision (I understand this can affect seller score, so wonder if I can use it against them, as another thing they've damaged). Within an hour or so, they buyer gets refunded.

 

END OF TIMELINE

 

Research done on this forum, and arguments for my case:

The service provider shouldn't expect the customer to bear the cost of their own negligence or the criminality of their own employees.

 

The service provider is required to use reasonable care and skill – and the insurance requirement amounts to contracting out of their duty.

 

By providing an insurance requirement, it excludes or restricts the courier's liability and is contrary to section 57 of Consumer Rights Act 2015.

 

Where an item is stolen, not only is it a criminal act but also it is an act of conversion – which is a tort. It is unfair to require the customer to be responsible for the torts of the service providers own employees.

 

I was given no choice. If I paid £10.20 to insure my item, it would be for £300 + postage, which is £74.99 less that what the value of my item is. And by not paying for insurance, I was given only £20 + postage.

 

now I have been given 28 days since August 5th for Hermes to respond to my Claim Form for missing parcel. 

 

after reading for about 3h on this forum different Hermes stories, I believe this is the next timeline/schedule of what I need to do:

 

Wait for Hermes to respond to the claim, they will most probably offer their £20 insurance + postage fees of £10.34.

 

Send a formal complaint as email, reply stating that I am not happy with their resolution and want the full value of my item+postage fees

 

Wait for them to reply, they will go with the regular template of "you only paid for £20 insurance". Email them back saying I will send a letter before action and will take them to small courts claim.

 

Send a letter before action with Royal Mail 1st class signed. Keep proof of postage.

 

Prepare a draft for particulars of claim.

 

14 days after the Letter before Action has been sent, on the 15th day, start the Money Claim case.

 

Proceed with the Money Claim case, if I can press for judgement, I will do it, if not I will have to wait for Hermes' defence, then compile questionnaire and go to mediation.

 

My questions to you guys:

Should I use the fact that I needed to wait 2 more weeks because their Digital Assistant was not working and the fact they lost my package within 19 hours and it went to the depot the day after, in the letter before auction/formal complaint email or mediation?

 

Does the fact that I paid £0.90 extra for signature, which of course, has never been "a service provided" (since the item has never been delivered), hold any weight as an argument against them?

 

Do I accept their £20+postage offer they offer me, and then go through the claim for the rest, or directly refuse with a formal complaint, and then go directly for Letter of Action? (I've read on the forum some people that accepted it so I am confused, that's why the question)

 

Can I use the arguments provided earlier, when I talk to the mediator? 

 

The email formal complaint without deadlines, should it be sent to the £20 email insurance offer email, or should it be sent as a standalone separate email?

 

For the County Court.

Many times I have read the following:

"Tell them that the hearing will happen in your local county court as you are an individual and they are a business".

of all, how do I tell them this, and where should I tell them this, in the letter of auction, particulars ?

 

Second of all, how do I find a County Court that I "local" to me, is there a website that shows all courts based on postcode?

 

Last question: Is the schedule written earlier for what I need to do correct?

 

What is the last day that I should consider when calculating the interest? The first day is the day they lost the package correct?

 

When submitting the money claim, do I add the £50 court fee, or is that already included in the "claim"?

 

Many thanks to everyone that can help and for the time to read all of this.

 

 

Claim Form.pdf eBay Transaction Proof.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
formatting to make it easier to read.
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Thank you for the very extensive story.

Most of it is absolutely not necessary.

All we need to know is the date on which you sent the item
what was the item
what was its value
was the item properly declared
was the value properly declared
did you take out the so-called insurance
did you book this with Hermes directly or did you use a broker such as Packlink or parcel2go?
Was the parcel simply lost? Or is it damaged and then destroyed? Or is it simply damage?



Please answer the questions above very briefly.

Also, please start reading up the Hermes stories on the sub- forum because the story is pretty well the same in every case.

 

Start off by making a formal complaint to Hermes. You may find this difficult to do because the systems are designed to block you having any communication with them. However, get an email address and using your tracking number, complained that the item is lost and that you want your money.

Please confirm that this is done. Don't set any deadlines but see what happens within the next 10 days also and that will give you lots of time to read up the Hermes stories here to understand what the next steps are.

Let us know when you eventually get knocked back by Hermes – as you certainly will and we will take you through the next steps.

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I mean no disrespect BankFodder, but I already stated I did an extensive read of many stories on this forum, as well as provided all the information for your questions. The extensive story was extensive, because I have never needed to partake in this kind of action before, and I am also unaware of all the laws and systems in the UK, therefore, needing the most help. Please read, this whole comment this time, as I am providing everything you need, without having to repeat and rewrite twice.

 

Furthermore, I spent a lot of time dividing my post into sections TO MAKE IT EASIER TO READ AND SKIP SECTIONS for the people that want to help,  and "dx100uk" has reformatted the post to "make it easier to read", but in the end, making it an unreadable mess of text, whatever...

 

To answer your questions BankFodder:

Yes I did read a lot of stories, the processes, the default hermes defense and the mediation process.

The item was sent on the July 17th 2021 8PM, so 24 days ago. The item got lost on the 18th of July 10AM.

The item was an "ultrawide monitor" (used sold on Ebay).

The item was sold for 374.99 on Ebay Auction, and I will consider that it's value. The same model new is 450 pounds.

The declared value of the monitor to Hermes was 374.99 during the claim form and when creating the shipping label.

I did not take out the so called insurance, because it would've offered cover for up to £300, which was 75 less that the value of my item, so useless. My item is also on their "prohibited list"

This is with Hermes directly, no one else.

The parcel was lost/stolen. Not damaged.

 

As I have already stated in my original post, I have not yet gone through the whole Claim Form process, so I cannot yet send the formal complaint. The claim form has been sent on the 5th of August, and they just replied with the following 2 hours ago:

"Thank you for completing the claim form. Before process the claim. I would like to request a enhanced search within the Hub, this is where high value items are kept when deliery cannot be made. To assist with this please provide photo's of the Ultrawide Monitor, as the ebay ID is not bring any details up on the website. Please also provide the serial number of the monitor. Please also provide the proof of refund showing the details of the recipients and how much has been refunded."

 

So I guess I need to send them some photos.

 

Also, BankFodder, the last 10 phrases in my original post, are 10 questions that I would like answered when you have some time as I am confused on certain aspects of the process.

 

 

 

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Firstly, the fact that you ask questions such as – when you tell them that you want the case heard in your local court, indicates very strongly that you haven't done sufficient reading and also you haven't looked at the steps involved in taking a small claim in the County Court.

It's very important that you do this reading and you understand the steps because that will give you confidence in what you're doing.

Please do this reading.

I expect that when they eventually they defend the claim they will base their defence on the fact that the item wasn't insured and that in any event it was a prohibited item.

Once again, you will see the arguments which rebut this set out many times on the sub- forum. In particular, you will find at the top of the sub- forum a thread which sets out the points very clearly – about nine or 10 points, I think – as to why the insurance is unenforceable and unfair in any event.

I think I've already said, please make a formal claim to Hermes. Say that you want your money back and if they don't reply within about 10 days – or they knock you back then we will go onto the next step which will be a letter of claim. In your initial complaint, don't set a deadline.

In terms of whether or not you should accept £20 which they may have offered you – you can certainly accept it as long as it is not in full and final settlement. If it has any conditions attached then you should not accept the money. However, if you read the Hermes stories here you will find that the money simply find its way into your account and Hermes never ask for permission. That is likely to be the case with you if 20 quid is forthcoming.

So once again, please do the reading. Have a look at steps involved in bringing a small claim to the County Court. Make your formal complaint.

This will go to litigation and you will have to send a letter of claim so draft a letter of claim and post it here.

During your reading you will find examples of letters of claim and you can use those as a template. You will find the generally speaking they are pretty brief and to the point – and that's what you want.

Once we have seen the letter of claim and we think that it is ready to go then you should send it and at the same time register on the County Court money claim website and start preparing your claim.

Once again, this is all been explained in this Hermes sub- forum.

The pattern with Hermes always the same – regardless of the item, regardless of the insurance, regardless of the value. They are always happy to exploit a tax payer funded scarce resource County Court system in order to try and discourage their customers.

 

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Incidentally, don't worry about therefore claim process – simply send your complaint.

You are taking control here and that means you assert your own process. You are not a supplicant

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  • 4 weeks later...

Frogot to update the post here. But after a few days of making this post, surprisingly Hermes found my parcel and delivered within 4 days. Then proceeded to offer a full refund for the issue caused.

So a happy ending, without having to go through the whole thing.

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That's great news. Thanks for the update.

You know where we are if you need us again!

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  • BankFodder changed the title to £400 Item sold on Ebay - Hermes lost parcel within 19h **Solved**

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